THINK TANK: Australian Rugby – The Ex-Pat Sport?

as a kiwi. i just love this article. no disrespect….but we have always and always will be better rugby players than australians, you just have to look at the culture over here
whats more. if you go to youtube and type in all blacks, amonst the first page of results are videos of the all blacks getting out into the community and interacting with the locals on a one on one basis.
i remember when i was down in duniden, seeing the highlanders training on a local oval…..no-one around..just them…the locals walking by…..its such a freindly atmosphere. where as in australia if you want to go see say the waratahs training you need to book it and organise it…..
was reading an article about ma’a nonu and julian savea turning out for there local club to play in the grand final over the weekend. its that level of commitment and dedication we new zealanders have that the aussies dont. for us. rugby is life…..i dont really think restructering the australian rugby compition is what is needed for aussies to be successful and good at rugby. i think its even more basic than that….its about making rugby union a way of life….and thats something that cant be artificially done…:/ its all in the mindset
having said that, australians should be proud of the fact they enjoy moderate levels of success in many differnt sports…soccer…rugby leauge, rugby union, cricket
whereas us kiwis….we’re focused on one thing and one thing only…rugby union
KIA KAHA

I think a number of things need to be treated separately here. Firstly, players like O’Connor, Cooper, Pocock and Ioane did not emigrate for the purposes of obtaining an ARU contract – their families moved here for the broad opportunities offered by Australia. More to the point Ioane was brought up largely in Melbourne before shifting up to Brisbane, and Pocock had to train the house down to make Churchie’s 1st XV. These players represent the large migrant population we have in Australia.

Secondly, the Fainga’a brothers, Ma’afu and TPN were all born in Australia, and again, are part of a very large 2nd generation migrants we have in Australia.

Thirdly, let’s be honest, how many Australians generally pack up shop and move to the seventh state? We’re far more likely to move to Europe or North America. On that note, many Australian players and coaches also ply their trade overseas right now.

As for the example of Rocky (and Berrick) going to league and coming back to Rugby, you could successfully argue that one of the All Blacks’ finest in Brad Thorn did the same thing!

And, of course, the big elephant in the room: the All Blacks have been pilfering Pacific Islanders for a very, very long time – I think you’d find that a New Zealand islander team would be as competitive as New Zealand Maori. Old Weary’s already brought up Ben Franks being a Mexican… crap, even Andrew Mehrtens was born in South Africa (albeit to Kiwi parents :P).

Regardless, I think we’re being a bit too sensitive to kiwi jibes. Rugby is not a national obsession here as it is in NZ. Our player stocks aren’t as great, we compete with mungo for talent, and we have two new provinces where rugby is a minor sport, and a third province where rugby sits behind AFL and league.

And while the Tahs like to be inaccessible, I think that’s more a Tah thing than an Australian syndrome. Many Australian sporting teams are happy to train in the open – have a look at Brighton or St Kilda beach on mornings after AFL games, or Wentworth Park during NRL offseason for evidence of that. Further, one only has to look at the Reds players being forever seen at schools, not to mention the stirling work they did during the floods in SE Queensland last year, for a good example in Rugby (I daresay the other provinces are also heavily involved in the community – yes, that includes the Tahs).

That’s not to say that I don’t think we need to do more to develop talent, and work on the grassroots of the game. I just wish that administrators would think of their long term legacy and realise that this is where the battles are lost and won.

@Richard. Trust a kiwi to throw cultural insults. We’re discussing rugby, and this article flatters NZ, yet you want to call us convicts.

Youre probably the clown who yelled out “Cmon NZ” during the minute silence for to remember the dead ANZAC’s.

Awesome culture.

@all. Nationalism no longer applies. Rugby is a product that sells advertising and employs people. Source of player no longer applicable as it is the marketing of the brand. We all sold our souls when we went pro.

I can see what you’re saying, and you’re entitled to that view.

Do you think NZ is suffering though? The ABs seem to be keeping their best players, the only ones who go overseas are the ones who are either on the outer already, are journeymen, or blokes who are at the end of their careers and trying to set themselves up for life after football – not a big change from the amateur era, really. There’s always been the fear that professionalism would result in NZ’s talent going for the bigger bucks, but unlike soccer and league, test rugby is still the pinnacle of the sport, and the black jersey doesn’t seem to have lost its value.

If there was a systematic poaching of foreign players (yes, every so often there will be the Steve Devines, Mike Harrises, SBWs and so on), I’d share your view and support a crackdown, but I don’t think it’s the case in the foreseeable future; as it is, historically Australia’s lost a lot of young talent to mungo, and I’m not opposed to reclaiming players like Cooper Cronk – but yeah, would much prefer it if kids developed in Australian rugby, or people taking up citizenship here for non-rugby reasons, would get a guernsey.

I was born in New Zealand but have lived in Australia since I was 14. Since I chose to live here and love it here I consider myself to be an Australian. Therefore I don’t see why any of these players who were either born overseas before they became professional, or who had parents who were, shouldn’t be considered to be Aussies.

However, I do think that the article raises some good points about needing to develop local rugby talent though – both players and coaches – because the unfortunate fact is that a Kiwi playing for or coaching the Wallabies is always going to have failed to make the same position in the All Blacks and will never have the passion for his team that an Aussie will. That Robbie Deans was the best option available to us when he took over (and he clearly was and is a great coach) is very telling and unfortunate.

Personally I can’t see how we will ever be up to the standard of the All Blacks until rugby moves out of being a private school game and becomes mainstream. That is the way it is in New Zealand, EVERY school has a rugby team and the kids play it from early primary age. Of course they are going to be better at it than a pool of kids from, what 50 or so private schools that start playing when they are 13? I think there needs to be a concerted effort by Union to compete with League in public schools in areas like Ipswich, Logan and Western Sydney. There is a huge pool of raw talent in those schools. League in Australia is so huge compared to any of the other League countries that it isn’t going to suffer by giving up a substantial number of junior players to Union. Then we can be the best at both .

I’d say to the Kiwis here who for some reason feel the need to loiter around a Wallabies-themed website throwing barbs, for goodness sake grow up. Aussie bashing is as much of a national sport in New Zealand as Rugby and I don’t think that many Kiwis realise how juvenile it is. I also don’t think it even registers with a lot of Aussies, who generally have a very positive view of New Zealand and New Zealanders, so you are just making rude fools of yourself for no reason. Personally I’m just grateful for the opportunities that moving to this country has given me and I’m sure that the players of New Zealand origin feel the same way.