Bledisloe 1 2018 - Green and Gold Rugby
All Blacks

Bledisloe 1 2018

Bledisloe 1 2018

Here we go again! Another Rugby Championship and the first game in we have to hurdle the biggest obstacle in world rugby. Thankfully SANZAAR is contemplating a change. I say it can’t come soon enough but that doesn’t help us today. So do I dare to dream of a win? No, I’m not that much of an optimist. But I am hoping for a good showing from our side. Let’s see what happens.

The Match

It took 38 minutes for the AllBlacks to score a try in an intriguing first half. Defence dominated the game but it was David Pocock who stood out for the Wallabies turning over the ball effortlessly and running powerfully in attack.

Both sides seemed a little off their games with handling errors crueling scoring opportunities for both sides. It was a stacked blind side and brilliant backing up that finally got Aaron Smith over near the sideline late in the half but Australia still lead 6-5  at oranges.

The All Blacks continued their try-scoring ways after the break. An adjustment to a more direct attacking platform and immense pressure in defence lead to turnover tries to Jack Goodhue and Beauden Barrett. But it was the Wallaby set piece that was really struggling. The Australian scrum was always going to struggle with Robertson at loosehead but the Wallaby lineout struggled from the start and, surprisingly, got worse when Tolu Latu started throwing.

Just as the All Blacks looked like they were about to run away with the game the Wallabies struck back with a long-range try to Jack Maddocks. But the reprieve only lasted a moment or two with Waisake Naholo scoring a late double to blow the score out.


The Game Changer

The All Blacks dominance of the set-piece especially the lineout.

The G&GR MOTM

David Pocock was the best of the Wallabies but Brodie Retallick Gets my vote for Man Of The Match

Wallaby watch

Great effort from all the Wallabies I Really can’t mention anyone except Pocock as doing the extra yard.

The Details

Crowd:
Score & Scorers

Australia: 13
Tries: Jack Maddocks
Conversions: Bernard Foley
Penalties: Bernard Foley, Reece Hodge

New Zealand: 38
Tries: Aaron Smith, Jack Goodhue, Beauden Barrett, Brodie Retallick, Waisake Naholo
Conversions: Beauden Barrett 4
Penalties:

Cards & citings

None

  • muppet

    [Sigh]

  • The Jackal

    Hard to say that that wasn’t a worse performance than Bledisloe I last year. At least the side could pull some momentum from a much improved second half, this year absolutely listless, every player outpointed by their opposite number yet again. Time to move on from TPN, Coleman goes missing on the big stage, Latu brain explosions, two injuries to props and we become a Tier 2 nation at set piece, the back line play has become so predictable wide looping pass from Foley to the centre field must be a sinch to defend against, and can you believe they have locked in Hooper for five years, an absolute passenger. While I’m venting I think Cheika & his cohort really do need to go, they just lack the ability to implement any in game changes on the fly. Its going to take another decade of systems & practices put in place now to overturn what has been a shambolic 15 years, since John O’Neil squandered all of the RWC 2003 money. Just gutted once again. Its the hope that kills you.

    Time to sleep it off and talk myself into them winning for the first time at Eden Park since 1986.

    Fuck Spider Cam off as well, what an absolute shit piece of TV innovation that is, horrible for viewers.

    • BigNickHartman

      to be fair to Hooper, he did just come back from a hamstring injury

      • Greg

        he was selected to start.

      • Will

        Not good enough. At test level I don’t think there’s room for ‘to be fair’.

      • McWarren

        Then he shouldn’t have been there. Simple.

      • Despite what the commentators said, he didn’t perform well enough to stay out there for 75 minutes IMO. You can argue whether or not he should have been selected to start – personally I wouldn’t have but then I don’t rate Cheika’s selections that often – but if it looks like he’s not doing well, or he’s falling off the pace too quickly after his injury, hook him.

        I’m never sure how much Hooper actually contributes compared to how much he LOOKS like he contributes because he runs all day. But when he’s not even doing that he really doesn’t like he should be wearing the jersey IMO.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I think the issue is summed up in the 2nd part of your post. Hooper LOOKS like he contributes because he’s everywhere on the field. I’m not sure he ACTUALLY contributes that much. He did make a couple of good carries and tackles but nowhere near enough

        • first time long time

          Mate, I got mountains of abuse a couple of years ago for comparing Pocock and Hoopers effectiveness in a game where Poey had a broken hand for 30 min of his half on the field and outshone Hooper dramatically.
          Nothing has changed except Pocock is going bald, probably out of frustration!

      • idiot savant

        If the coach was being fair to Hooper (and the country) he would have made him play 80 minutes last week in the Shute Shield. He should also have made TPN and DHP play 80 minutes for whatever teams would have them last week as well. Cheika put 3 very underdone players on the park against the number 1 side in the world. And boy, didnt it show.

      • Brumby Runner

        In doing so, neither he nor Cheika were being fair to the Wallabies or the Aus fans, so why should we feel the need to be fair to him, Nick?

    • muppet

      Agree on all counts. Predictable. Passing well before the gain line, no creative running, committing too many to rucks, pop-gun kicks straight to the opposition…

    • Straith

      i liked spider cam. really brought to eye the scale of 120kg men at their peak performance running at eachother hah.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      I thought Coleman played well. Trouble was he got no support and got tired because he was on his own

  • Mike Thompson

    Miscellaneous initial thoughts:

    The Wallabies looked lead-footed after about 15 mins. Once again it looks to me like they have been over-trained recently. How is that possible? Again.

    The new Wallabies forwards coach, by all accounts hand picked by Cheika, appears to have COMPLETELY screwed up both the scrum and the lineout.

    We were lucky the All Blacks had a slightly off night. The score could have been so much worse.

    The All Blacks continue to have a superpower when it comes to getting refs to do amazing things in their favour. Like not giving yellows. As if it isn’t hard enough to beat them anyway.

    I didn’t go out to the game (have been to every Sydney game for 30 years).

    • Look, I’ll be honest, I saw the tackle and said yellow card.

      But on reflection, I’m not sure it was. 100% the legs went over the horizontal, but the rest of it is about taking care and putting the player down safely. Naholo seemed to hold Folau up so there was plenty of time to put his arm down, land gently rolling onto his back. There’s no force, no danger so… no yellow card?

      I agree I’ve seen them given before for very similar looking tackles. I really wouldn’t have been shocked to have seen one then. But thinking it through slowly, I think it was probably the right call. I wouldn’t have made it live though.

      I think the Wobs defended well for 35 minutes but their desire to defend seemed to basically knock the stuffing out of them so there was nothing left for attack, scrummaging or anything else. Either that, or the ABs read their calls. With the exception of Crotty knocking himself out on some other AB’s head, gang-tackling the ABs seemed to force turnovers, or force them to look up to take the hit so they dropped passes, but just leave the Wallabies too bruised and tired to actually play. Not a good return.

      • onlinesideline

        there was danger. You cant say just because folua was able to put this hand out there was no danger. His legs were above the horizntal full stop. There was a neck injury begging if it wasnt for Folaus reaction. What would a schoolboy do that didnt have the strength skill and reaction time that Izzy had to prevent disaster. This is not about the game being tough or not. Late tackles which are far less threatening, are officiated more stringently than this issue, which is far more threatening. Yellow all day.

        • Disagree.

          The current interpretations of the laws look at outcomes a lot. The player who lifts the player in a tackle is responsible for putting them down safely as well, it’s not automatic “you put them in potential danger, yellow/red.” If Naholo didn’t have the strength to hold Izzy up a little, or he’d pushed through and pushed him into the ground, it’s a whole different situation. If Izzy doesn’t reach down with a hand it’s a different outcome too.

          There are two roughly analogous situations, high tackles, and hitting the player in the air. Neither of those is an automatic card, hitting the player in the air isn’t even an automatic penalty if it’s incidental to you both fairly playing the ball. For a high tackle the severity of the sanction should be assessed on the force of the hit and the contributing factors – if you stick out an arm, they duck into it, and you catch them high, it’s a penalty, if you shoulder charge them in the head, it’s red kind of thing. Hitting them in the head assesses whether you had a realistic chance to catch the ball, if you didn’t it looks at how they land for the level of the infringement.

          What part of the actual outcome of the tackle on Izzy was actually dangerous and deserved a card? I’m not saying it wasn’t potentially dangerous, it certainly was, but as that particular tackle played out in reality?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Love you work mate

        • disqus_NMX

          Try telling the French guy who had his skull cracked that it’s about outcomes. Oops, I forgot, that was against the All Blacks, doesn’t count.

      • Mike Thompson

        Your opinions about danger, or not, just don’t come into it. What matters here is that ALL YEAR this action has been a minimum yellow card. The moment the legs are over the horizontal, end of story, its a yellow. ALL YEAR. Every occasion. And Pipper has been a part of that entire process, regularly handing out yellows himself. So, suddenly, on this occasion no yellow when it was clear cut and easily observed. It is just completely inexplicable.

        The All Black aura causes refs to make favorable decisions … regularly. And it makes them even harder to beat.

        • Archie

          Echoing the cries from fans after the Ireland Aus series… no way that should’ve been a yellow… our code is going crazy if you make people leave the field for something as soft as that…so thank God sense prevailed and it wasn’t a card.

          However, I accept your point about consistency. But pretending one nationality is the victim or beneficiary, just defies evidence. For example against the Tahs in the regular season Aaron Smith got 10 min for a ‘slap down’. The EXACT same thing happened in the return fixture QF from a Tah… just a penalty. Hooper also slapped down against Ireland in test 2 during an Ireland overlap… no sanction.

          I hate the slap down card so applaud when it’s not given, but inconsistency is there for this and other borderline card calls… and it is apparently random

        • Mike Thompson

          Anyone following the SuperN KNOWS the slap down was inconsistently reffed. They were very consistent for the first three weeks, then it went off the rails for the next few weeks, and then it got back on the rails again when they clarified interpretations regarding “potential to stop a scoring opportunity”. Everyone knows that was uneven.

          But the unevenness of the slapdown interpretation actually makes my point, because there was NO SUCH ambiguity about lifting tackles. None. That has been done the same way all year.

          My real point is this … refs are human and humans are (subconsciously) affected by “social” issues. Some more than others. Issues like: the opinion of the crowd. And the “status” of the player/team they are ruling for/against.

          For this reason, some refs are KNOWN to be hometown refs. They tend to be affected (subconsciously) more by crowds than other refs. Is there any dispute about that? I don’t so. At least, say, 90% of refs are affected by the crowd to some degree. To some degree. Very human. And not a lot we can do about it.

          Equally, refs will be influenced by “the status” of the players and teams. They are not objective robots, they are human, and we are social animals. And some will be more influenced than others. McCaw was regularly able to get away with things because he had an almost mystical aura about him. Magnificent player … who was able to get away with more than he should have. On the other end of the scale, Baxter was more panelized that he should have been (which is absolutely not to say he was a strong prop).

          So … I believe the All Blacks, because of their status, are subconsciously favored by refs. And that some refs are more affected than others. If you have any knowledge of humans, and how they work socially, you wouldn’t find this the slightest bit surprising or controversial. Just ask the French recently. Or the South Africans regularly.

        • Archie

          Completely disagree sorry. For example there was plenty that the French got away with in that June series. I see a player like Pocock (in the Irish series and last night) getting away with having his knee on the ground, entering from the wrong side etc… but no fuss is made about him getting away with anything.

          It’s common in most sports that this spotlight is reserved almost exclusively for the winning team and their players. Of course any significant dominance from a team exacerbates this greatly.

        • juswal

          No one believes that you believe what you’re posting. Give it a rest.

          Or take it to a NZ web site. Why do you even post here?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Sorry mate calling bullshit on this. The referees are completely neutral and couldn’t give a shit about crowd, location or teams. They have no skin in the game and merely rule on what they see.
          The biggest issue with rugby is that at every collision and subsequent maul, ruck or just play there is probably 7 or 10 things that could be ruled on. Referees have to balance the technical and tactical application of what they see, and that depends on their positioning. The good referees are those that get in the right position to make the best call in regards to the flow of the game. None are perfect but none have lost a game through a knock on or missed tackle either.

        • onlinesideline

          the cries re Irish Oz series were all about Izzy in the air not spear tackles

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate that’s not quite true, the ruling is lifting over the horizontal is a penalty, the landing determines if it stays or goes yellow or red. TBH I could have taken either but I think he pulled out of driving him down and just lowered him which is why it remained at a penalty only.

        • Others have pointed out you’re being somewhat selective about your facts when you say it’s always a card to make a point.

          I will add to that, that in this crazy game, at the end of the Super Rugby and the Aviva Premiership seasons, just before the two international seasons (and I think just before the November test window and the 6N too) World Rugby calls all the world panel referees in to review the last season of top-flight rugby, and agree common protocols for the next one.

          We’ve seen one obvious change – less referring to the TMO, more on-field decisions, right or wrong. After all the furore around the card that shouldn’t have been in June for Fail, I’m pretty sure they went over all the card decisions for dangerous play and there’s going to be a change in how we see them interpreted. More in line with what the original guidelines and laws actually say. You’re welcome to believe it’s a magical All Black aura. I think it’s simply Peyper showing the new interpretation, or rather the reinforcement of the old one: less knee-jerk “over the horizontal -> yellow” which is actually wrong.

    • Alister Smith

      Perhaps over stimulated as well as over trained. One of the commentators said they looked anxious before they went on. I have played in teams where we were over-hyped going into a game and that nervous energy runs out 20-30 minutes in and, while not physically exhausted exactly be looking very much like it.

      • idiot savant

        Yes I think you are onto something there Alister. There is a pattern in this Cheika coached side of preparation issues. We have seen the overtraining quite a few times leaving the players flat on the day. You would think for the money the coaches are paid the best sports science would be available on preparation – diet, training load, recovery – so that the side is tapered to be at their best on game day.

        And there is also the mental and strategic side of preparation. The Wallabies went out all guns blazing. The intensity of the first 30 minutes was top flight and we looked like we could match them. But then the air went out of the balloon. We were mentally and physically gassed after half time. We put too much energy into the first half.

        The ABs did what they do so often. Absorb the pressure and then strike when fatigue sets in. I seem to recall the ABs were either behind or only marginally in front at half time in all of their June tests in the last 2 years. Its as if they only play at 80% for the first 30 minutes, dont get over excited, and just play to their structures. Then with more energy in the tank then their opponents, step it up. And when they score it gives them an energy injection so they stay on top. This is the side of the game that Cheika needs to learn how to coach.

        • Alister Smith

          Perhaps with the exception of the first game last year

        • idiot savant

          Well the ABs dont look a gift horse in the mouth. They were doing their usual 80% thing in that game while the Wallabies were playing Nathan Grey’s sudoko defence. There were holes everywhere. Whats a poor All Black boy to do?

    • Brumby Runner

      And I question whether the training also caused the late injuries to Sio and Tupou. It seems we don’t need an opposition; we can beat ourselves on the training field.

      • Keith Butler

        Ah, the England Syndrome. Many have commented that EJ flogs the players too hard in training.

  • Archie

    Pretty rusty stuff from the ABs. But stepped up and we’re too classy. They should be a lot better next week at fortress Eden. Injury to Crotty looked sickening, hope he recovers soon.

    Brodie Retallick is a rugby machine!
    Sam Cane has a great game, particularly in D.
    Pocock was also great… again.

    Not perfect but job done, good stuff darkness!!! 1-0

    Shout out to the girls too… they looked dynamic and pretty fit. Cocksedge was brilliant and Winiata was her usual slick self. Congrats to the whole team.

  • Will

    Cant win a scrum. Can’t win a line out. Can’t win a game. I’m devastated.

  • Greg

    @Hoss you called it. Wallabies by 6…. until just before half time. I suspect your comments will be more entertaining than mine but here goes….

    Congrats to New Zealand. They won very easily in the end.

    We struggled at the scrum. I thought there were some penalties that could have gone either way…. but we weren’t stable.

    We really struggled at the lineout. What was the lineout issue? Poor throwing? Poor lifting ? or not enough options?

    Add to that some basic skills mistakes where we knocked on/dropped the ball. We could have scored a couple more tries if we had held the ball better in contact…..

    Lifting tackle on Folau didn’t do any harm but has been called yellow in other games.

    TV repairs in progress for next game.

    • Scrum penalties always seem like a lottery – but although I don’t rate Peyper, he’s really close and has a good view. And like you say, can’t win a line out to save our lives, except the one 5m out where they don’t compete – even there, they come through the middle and steal the ball.

      • Timbo

        Read came from the side. Peyper missed it and didn’t bother referring to AR.

        • onlinesideline

          where was the bloody touchie – that was so obvious

        • Timbo

          I can only assume that the ARs and TMO are enjoying breaks after the debacle that has been the super rugby and test season

    • onlinesideline

      its beyond words how that lift on Folua wasnt a yellow. This was a case of a ref saying to himself, “Im not going to ruin a spectacle for this shit” – but in any other match that was a yellow. There should be no state of origin like “a bit of bif never hurt anybody” leeway because this is a bledisloe with 70 000 ppl. Also curious what would happen if Wallabies did that lift against all blacks too ?

      • Timbo

        More than that, folaus feet were above Naholos head. Even without driving him to China, Naholo is negligent in his tackle and should have been on the pine for 10.

  • Raz Gat

    We might have a chance against these top countries again when our coaches realize that the game is won and lost with DEFENSE! when your defense is weak it doesn’t matter how “good” your attack is (and it’s not that good). How many tries did the All Blacks score from pressure defense leading to turn over ball – run of the field tries??? How many of these type of tries did England score against us over the last 5 matches? Jake White knows this… Which is why he managed to turn the Brumbies around in 2 seasons and won the RWC with South Africa.

    • The Jackal

      Just endless space when that happens as well, no cover, no fullback, everyone up in the line. How many easy 7 points have we given away with that all or nothing approach, having slugs (Korobiete excepted) in the backline who can’t run anyone down doesn’t help.

    • Straith

      yes and no. I thought the wallabies defended well tonight. tackled hard, made it physical, but their will broke. A good defense will only get you so far. You have to be deadly with the ball in hand so you can spend the entire game attacking with the pressure on them. The wallabies had little pressure past 20 minutes so the all blacks were free to practice rugby on us.

  • Straith

    I’m literally not even surprised at this point. The team, coach and game plan has barely even changed in 4-5 years. Whats the definition of insanity again?

    Not even sounding like a broken record here because i passed sounding like a broken record about 3 years ago when i was saying this. What the literal fuck is Bernard Foley doing out there. He is a utility player at best. He has had under 5 good games in ~70 caps.
    He is invisible all game whilst Beale is playing first receiver from 12 and making plays left right and center. Then Toomua comes on and starts throwing 3 man cut out passes from first receiver trying to spark something. Not only that. Foley can’t even kick. So whilst Beauden Barrett is just tearing us up in his usual world number 1 form, deadly with every touch, IQ higher than most aerospace engineers, we have Foley who’s brain capacity is limited to catching and passing 1 person to his outside, with 0 random ability programmed in.
    I don’t even care for an explanation because i lost trust in Chieka about 4 years ago and I’ve actually given up on the wallabies until he is gone. The entire teams IQ (bar pocock and maybe Beale) just feels like its 30% behind the all blacks. its not even a matter of athleticism or rugby basics, its a matter of how you manipulate the game with every touch of the ball. Rugby is a game of chess and it feels like we are a high school state champion verses an international grand master.

    When the all Blacks play, it feels like there is zero counter play to their tactics, they feel fool proof. you can line your man up. make your tackle. but they will still score because they are one step ahead of us. I would go to say the new Zealand teams conversion rate for a line break to a try is almost triple any other team in the world because they keeps those hands up, slow down if they need, and get those offloads off. Sonny bill Williams was the king of this. The only player on our team to do this tonight was Beale, and no wonder it feels like he is our most impactful player. and that’s just one of the things the NZers do differently.

    • Adrian

      Good share Straith

      • Straith

        thank you. i wish i could in a locked room with chieka and tattoo this on him.

        • markjohnconley

          Ah I wouldn’t want to be in a locked room with Cheika; did you ever see him play?

    • Gottsy

      Well said. Also hooper- chasing the ball around like a dog at the beach, shooting out of the line every five minutes and opening up holes behind him that the all blacks were delighting in strolling through. Why Cheika waited until 75 minutes to get Samu on for him is beyond me.

      • onlinesideline

        That was the story of the whole team. It seems like a full court press / go the intercept feel about it. Is that wise against a side that knows how to spin it / somehow get the ball with a minimum of ease to a number of world class line breakers. No wonder Mackenzie came on.

        And weirdly our offense seems to be exactly like our defense. Ridoucously flat. Why the Wallabies continue year after year standing so flat, sending a hospital pass to their teammates, with terrible body height and no run up and expect not to get smashed is beyond me.

        • Gottsy

          I got a bit stroppy after the game last year, and wrote something on Facebook about the defense being shit and needing a decent defense coach- it popped up as a memory this morning. Deja vu

        • Darrin Briggs

          same I reposted it again

        • Charcoal

          It’s the Randwick way mate!

    • 22DropOut

      I don’t think that our tactics are or were an issue but I still hold the coaches accountable. We mentally collapsed and didn’t execute anything approaching our game plan, and the coaching staff has to answer for that.

      A similar collapse 3 years on the trot in the Sydney Bledisloe. Can’t blame fitness or too many Super teams today.

      We only do that to teams we feel “inferior” to (NZ and ENG). NZ didn’t even plan well last night. Ireland played far better and we didn’t collapse mentally against them.

      • Alex George

        It will continue to happen, regardless of who the coach is or who the players are. New Zealand’s system is way ahead of ours, and our various states, clubs, boards etc spend too much time fighting each other to ever fix our system.

        • 22DropOut

          I have absolutely no problem with us losing to New Zealand more often than not. They are a better team. No problem losing to Ireland either.

          The odd mental fart you can forgive. The cycle of mental collapses against NZ (and England) in particular is the problem. I’d have no issue losing 50-0 if we are well prepared and give our all.

          Cheika hasn’t underperformed with this team on paper, we are beating the teams we should, finishing where we should in the RC and reached the World Cup final. We haven’t lost like Wallabies in the games we do lose, that’s the issue I feel.

    • IIPA

      Look I don’t mind your post and the predictable Foley rant though not sure last night it’s warranted. You don’t mention our scrum or lineout once. Jesus you don’t think that’s worth an acknowledgement ?

      • Straith

        not really. even if we won every scrum and line out i don’t think have it in them to score more points than the other team.

        • IIPA

          Well you couldn’t be more down the wrong path then. How can the backs do anything when they lose SEVEN oppprtunities for perfect platforms to launch an attack ?

          Focus on 10s and 15s in Aus rugby analysis is way over-stated

        • Straith

          what are you? bernard foleys dad?
          what about the times where everything does go our way? we still don’t win. im not talking about last nights game, im talking about the 70 other games he has done nothing spectacular. why are you happy to see medicore? I won’t be happy until i see some absolute freak ripping teams apart from the 10 position like Barrett.

        • IIPA

          His mum actually….Barrett was far from great in the first half and shone in the second when surprise surprise his forwards were not only winning all their own set pieces but ours as well!

        • Brumby Runner

          Foley will be a favourite of Cheika and of many fans on this site until a better option comes through in a blue jersey.

        • Greg

          Joking right?

          We want gold to go well. If there is a better player in ACT club rugby then let’s select him (or her!)

        • Timbo

          Sadly BR is not joking.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Cooper had better attack and defence stats then Foley 2017, the last time he was a Wallaby contender…..all it got him was a seat on the bench till a full boot followed thru without even testing his form at Wallaby level. EVERY team position has had a revolving door bar 10……

        • AlanC

          Let’s not forget 15 – perhaps he’ll walk away if he’s moved to the wing.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          True but I see that as the exception as Folou is clearly the standout FB in world rugby consistently shining more than anyone else. And the Wallabies have plenty of True cover at 15 so no depth was ever threatened…… not for along time in Aus rugby.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Funny thing is Barret sucked all Super season. Had his worst season I’ve ever season. I’d bet the stats would prove it too….

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Well the REDS had an amazing dominant forward pack all year. . … and because of poor 10s their attack sucked as well. Having a dominant scrum or line-out means far less if the first person it goes wide to does nothing with it….. ..except shovel it one more wider.
          Another eg….. .historically QUADE Cooper only ever had bad games when his forward pack wasn’t maning up.

      • GO THE Q REDS

        The point is our scrum and line-out are always at least competitive. BUT our attacking threat (50%) is just plain relying on our attacking freaks doing something. THAT is not how to win consistently. At least next week we know we can tweak the team to adapt for shortcomings…..but Foley will still be there just being another 9 in our team, with very little threat, attack structure and statistically a poor defender as well.

    • OnTheBurst

      I find it bizarre that Foley gets the most column inches in your rant.

      Our complete collapse of our set piece is surely the overriding concern from this match – constantly feeding the ball back to the world’s best side is NOT a way to win.

      I get the scrum may have been a little wobbly due to late personnel changes. But our line out was an out and out disgrace. Totally unacceptable.

      This is the real story…

      • Straith

        because his position is probably the most important on the team. Look at the impact Barrett has from 10. there is a reason QC has a higher win rate.
        at this point. Even if every scrum/lineout/decision went our way, we don’t have the bare minimum in attack to score more points than them.

        • Alex George

          His point is still valid – Barrett has that impact because of the base his forwards give him.

          If every scrum/lineout/decision went our way, as you put it, then they would be scoring a lot less than they actually did. They’d have been knackered before we were, because that’s what losing those things does to you.

          Anyway, its not just down to one player. We aren’t going to beat the ABs except very occasionally, because they have a well oiled machine that turns out quality players and a quality side. We drop further behind them each year.

        • 22DropOut

          What is the reason QC has a higher win rate? Seems an overly simplistic take on it. We didn’t lose because of Foley.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          But when we loose it’s because of Quade. . … .and don’t pretend that wasn’t said EVERY wallaby loss in Quades career. Foley on the other hand goes under the radar….. . can put in a terrible performance and still get top 3 votes by utterly blind voters.

        • 22DropOut

          Foley flies under the radar? He’s the most maligned Wallaby here by a distance!

          Also don’t recall a single example of someone saying we lost because of Quade Cooper. I recall plenty of games where we lost and he didn’t play well but there’s more to it than that. His form frequently mirrored that of the team he was playing in anyway, Does it really need to be all or nothing?

        • GO THE Q REDS

          You literally sound like a confused old man talking about something way above his pay grade…….Are you seriously saying you don’t believe Foley has been flying under the radar for years?.. … and Quade hasn’t been systematically blamed for losses his whole career? PAH
          Get out. … .even last week some clown referd to one of Quades last wallaby games that he came of the bench in a lose as being his fault. This week it was he wasn’t good enough to get South’s into the Final.
          You must also have forgotten about games last Test season where Foley had undeniable shockers with knockons, forward passes, missed tackles and enough lack of kicking talent to pull ur hair out. And this site was FULL of voters rating Foley in the top 3 performers in the season voting tracker.
          Your deadset having a laugh mate ……

        • 22DropOut

          An argument rarely has substance when you open with personal insults

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Some things just need to be said when people like yourself refuse to look at the FACTS and reality when forming their opinion. It’s A FACT Quade gets blamed for losses by the masses….. it’s a FACT Foley goes under the radar as proven by the example I gave you earlier. Deal with it…

        • 22DropOut

          Does “Fact” mean something else in Queensland?

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Yep let’s make it a Qld Vs Nsw thing, because thats probably a large part of it. ..

        • 22DropOut

          I was commenting on the fact that you use the word “fact” incorrectly, in case that wasn’t obvious.

          Also you won’t find any state bias in my posts, while it seems yours are heavily driven by various agendas related to the Reds

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Well done Sherlock. … my profile name is “GO THE Q REDS”. I may heavily support the Reds and only reply in Red threads. …..but that doesn’t hide the FACT that Foley massively goes under the radar. I can prove it to you if your that stubborn and blind.
          So last year against the Saffas Foley kicked for his 500th point. He also missed 4 of the teams 10 1st half tackles, he kicked out on the full THREE times. . .2 of those were adv penalty kicks. That was the 1st half. He then goes on to knock the ball on, pass 2hospital passes, 1 of these getting turned over and making a few pretty poor defensive reads. Balanced by 5/5 Conv and a neat try assist to Folou. Hmm.
          Now not a single word was said in the media as usual about his performance.. .. this sites best player pole went on to rate Foley in the top 3 players for the game. Many people commenting had him in their top 3…..when in reality on balance…… if you didn’t let the media’s reporting/opinion shape your view of the game… ..he had a shocker of a game.THAT is a player going under the radar.

        • 22DropOut

          Stopped reading after you opened with an insult. Peace out, brother.

      • 30 mm tags

        Obviously the Wallabies’ lineout coach is a dud and if the head coach can’t work that out then that’s more ammunition to prove he is a dud as well.
        However what sort of previously referred to I Q power is there in the Wallabies’ captain?
        Changing lineout strategy was necessary and it didn’t happen. Contributors to this article speak of chess and I Q. No one wearing Gold understands the tactical brain that is needed to win a game and if the Head Coach only understands eye rolls and looking to the heavens then sadly for not just him and the confidence of the team,the brutal reality is that he doesn’t know how to win a lineout off our own throw and he doesn’t know how to win.

    • southern macro

      Most people can throw the ball further than Foley can kick it. He’s done, move on.

      • Parker

        Foley is well past his use by date.

    • subfreq

      Groundhog Day

    • GO THE Q REDS

      Mate I was banned from the forums for posting Foley’s game impact notes the last two seasons. Let’s just say very few games proved your assessment wrong. …. but my biggest gripe? Where’s the backup option? Where’s the growth or development at 10? I’ll tell you where……a player who hasn’t played 10 since high school “having a crack”…..while another legit option is carving up the lower grades.

  • Richard Patterson

    So for the 3rd time in 3 years, the Wallabies looked dreadfully prepared for Bledisloe I in Sydney. Short of the All Blacks serving up a mistake ridden performance, it once again remains unclear what Cheika’s strategy is to beat the All Blacks in this important contest. Once again the selection of Hooper and Pocock badly exposed their lack of lineout options. Once again we saw an over reliance of looping passes from Foley and/or Beale to the wide channels as the means to break down the All Blacks backline defence. Once again we saw a Wallaby side lacking the conditioning to go 80 minutes with the All Blacks. It was fodder.

    There was very little difference to what the Wallabies served up tonight that they hadn’t had on full display trying to beat Ireland in June. In this age of sophisticated analytics, how Cheika and the Wallabies believed that would be a game plan that could beat the All Blacks is simply extraordinary. However, as long as Cheika displays the rather classless antics he continually chooses, he provides the All Blacks plenty of reason to play well – and to win! Tonight was just the latest episode. Once settled, the All Blacks looked organised and ruthless. Once again, against clever opposition the Wallabies looked amateur.

    • juswal

      I acknowledge your enthusiasm, within hours of your team’s triumph, to leave your celebrations and get on the internet to tell Australian rugby fans why we lost, and where our problem lie, and what flaws beset our coach and players.

      It says something about your personality and ethics that this was a priority for you.

      Is it also a trait of the NZ psyche? It’s not something that Australian sports fan would do.

      • Richard Patterson

        Really appreciate you putting that in writing juswal. Probably like many I watched the bashing Rugby seemed to take through much of 2018 about anything to do with the Super Rugby format, referees, TMO’s or the lack of success by Australian teams.

        Probably like many I was hoping for a great contest last night in what many describe as the biggest week of the year for Rugby in Australia. It would be a great promotion for the code as NRL and AFL build towards playoff’s.

        Probably like many I had observed the improvement in Australian Rugby in the past 2 months. The highly competitive test series against Ireland and some excellent rugby by the Waratahs that took them deep into Super Rugby play-offs.

        Equally importantly juswsl I observed the lift in expectation about the Wallaby performance in this year’s contest. After being hopelessly outplayed in the last 2 contests in Sydney there was belief that maybe Cheika and his coaching staff had finally got their preparation right, had got conditioning right, had got skills under pressure right and had properly analysed the All Blacks and designed a game plan to beat them.

        And then we got last night… Not sure what was more bemusing. Cheika’s clear lack of preparation beforehand – or the cluelessness of this answers in the press conference afterwards. I’ll let you decide that.

        • Gun

          Unfortunately we just need time to mourn the slow death of the game here Richard. As with KRL your advice and observations are measured and reasonable but give it a day or two.

        • Richard Patterson

          Very fair call Gun. Thank you.

      • Richard Patterson

        Really appreciate you putting that in writing juswal. Probably like many I watched the bashing Rugby seemed to take through much of 2018 about anything to do with the Super Rugby format, referees, TMO’s or the lack of success by Australian teams.

        Probably like many I was hoping for a great contest last night in what many describe as the biggest week of the year for Rugby in Australia. It would be a great promotion for the code as NRL and AFL build towards playoff’s.

        Probably like many I had observed the improvement in Australian Rugby in the past 2 months. The highly competitive test series against Ireland and some excellent rugby by the Waratahs that took them deep into Super Rugby play-offs.

        Equally importantly juswsl I observed the lift in expectation about the Wallaby performance in this year’s contest. After being hopelessly outplayed in the last 2 contests in Sydney there was belief that maybe Cheika and his coaching staff had finally got their preparation right, had got conditioning right, had got skills under pressure right and had properly analysed the All Blacks and designed a game plan to beat them.

        And then we got last night… Not sure what was more bemusing. Cheika’s clear lack of preparation beforehand – or the cluelessness of this answers in the press conference afterwards. I’ll let you decide that.

  • Will

    I’m a Sydney local. Is it just me or has SYDNEY become the ABs new home ground.

    • Straith

      hahaha mate the entire world is the AB’s home ground these days.

      • Daniele Licciardello

        You should hear Italian tv commentators!

    • idiot savant

      Mate the stands were full of special category visa holders.

    • Darrin Briggs

      I travelled from interstate for the 1st time to Homebush. Expensive tickets! The experience left me cold.The place is hard to get too, lacked any atmosphere and getting away from the stadium afterwards was a joke, no management of the crowd! No wonder crowds are down! Eventually got back into Sydney and the pubs were shut…..The whole place is over rated and wont be heading back in a hurry. Brisbane next year!

  • Who?

    Some absolute shockers tonight…
    Firstly, Cheika. We lose Tupou, so we sub in Ainsley at reserve THP? Why didn’t we just swap 7A’s to 18, and pick another LHP? 7A’s is clearly still the 3rd THP. Further, we’ve played massively intensity, so Rodda plays 65, Coleman plays 70+?! Tui played the whole game, he was gassed at 65. Horrible use of the bench. And when Folau came off injured, we had no direction, because everything still hinged off Beale, but he was fullback, while Foley was doing his usual amount and Toomua just looked confused. Too many directors, not enough actors.
    Secondly, our lineout. Can’t pin it on anyone in particular, we had bombed throws with no jumper, throws that were picked off 2m in front of the jumper (i.e. no loop), jumpers who were simply out-jumped or out-positioned… People will whinge that Simmo didn’t fix anything when he came on at 65 minutes, but by then, Latu’s confidence was just gone.
    Thirdly, Koroibete. His actions between 55 and 75 minutes should mark him never to be picked until he learns this isn’t League. He needs to be able to kick. His passing in the 22 was less logical than Campo’s pass to Marto in the 89 Lions Test that sees him blamed with losing the series!
    Fourth, Foley. What on earth was he doing in that 20 minute period from 50 minutes? I hold him 50% responsible for DHP’s drop which saw Beaudy score. His gerryowen inside his own 22 (which saw Folau injured) was never anything but a bad idea.
    Fifth, Jaco. I was complaining about him from the first 5 minutes. He didn’t referee the breakdown. He left no gap in the lineout (which saw the ABs lose some throws, too, but we were less well equipped to deal with that than the ABs were). He only refereed one side at the scrum (only one side was responsible for holding the scrum up, so the other side could do whatever they wanted). Genia’s dig at him at 72 minutes was perfect – “Then what are you watching?” He didn’t lose us the game, but some of his decisions – or non-decisions – directly led to points to the ABs (quite a lot of them), and that scoreboard pressure helped the Wallabies lose their heads in that period between 50 and 65 minutes.
    Special note on Hooper – definitely looked first game back. Pace wasn’t quite there, decision making wasn’t quite there. The counter attack try, he didn’t trust Foley, so gave Reiko an extra two steps which was enough for Reiko to burn him. Not saying he was terrible, just wasn’t his best. He’ll be better next week, but if the rest of the team needed a game (hence the trial), and Hooper had been thinking he’d have been good for the Super Rugby final, it’s a shame that he wasn’t able to be slotted in somewhere to get a game before coming back.

    • disqus_NMX

      By the 20 min mark I was completely infuriated by the ref. I can’t help feel that when the ref gives a team like the All Blacks a 20 min head start, then the psychological damage is done and the whole game is a mountain too high. Not that it stopped after the first 20 mins either. The Wallabies looked to be comfortably on top at the start, but bit by bit started falling apart. I remember at one point hearing the whistle blow with the Wallabies in possession and yelling at the TV “what now?!”.

      • Geoffro

        Peyper has never been kind to the Wallabies,don’t know what’s going on there but good teams get over that.It was an arm wrestle in the first 40 but seems like Cheika said something stupid at half time,probably that the Wallabies had the AB’s measure and it was time to break out..haha , wrong.Seriously though,we just don’t have the cattle to challenge these guys on an even playing field and should have kept grafting instead of going into headless chicken mode in the second half.

        • Who?

          The good teams might get over it, but when you’re playing a team that’s the best, and known as being better than you, you need the ref to be fair. Even handed. And Jaco doesn’t have a clue what that is.
          The first half wasn’t an arm wrestle. It was Wallaby dominance in the first 20, some strong play by the ABs in the last 10, but the ABs absolutely had the rub of the green from the amiably incompetent Jaco. And we couldn’t afford that if we wanted the game to be a contest.
          In terms of the second half, the ABs definitely came out on top. The Foley/DHP debacle gave BB his try, after a few more dud calls, and then we imploded under scoreboard pressure.

        • Geoffro

          The Peyper thing is another Cheika should have prepared for.As I said, it’s happened with him previously.Wayne Barnes is the opposite and has in the past reffed favourably towards the Wallabies.Different refs have different styles and interpretations (it’s wrong I know but a fact).Nothing amiable about Jaco’s incompetence.He’s an arrogant little bugger who doesn’t like to be chirped at and it was another lesson for us the way Read handled him.

        • disqus_NMX

          You never have to chirp at a ref when the ref is giving you a rim job from start to finish.

        • Who?

          As NMX said, Jaco was making bad calls before there was any chirping. He was in one of his moods, and a ref who varies so wildly in his accuracy and pedanticity shouldn’t be appointed to top tests.
          It’s easy to handle a ref who’s not watching your infractions. You don’t have to argue with him about decisions, because he’s already making them your way. If you watch Read in a game where he feels he’s not getting the rub of the green, he’ll be much louder, more consistent and more persistent with his interactions. And that doesn’t mean that he’ll have a win, either. I’m historically one of the first to jump on Hooper about his interaction with refs. He sounded ok to me – kept his comments short, sounded more respectful and less whiny than in the past.
          You can plan for differences in interpretations and styles, but you can’t plan for incompetence. When Genia sprayed Jaco at 72 minutes, he was right. If a ref doesn’t see a player strolling up the side of a maul to knock the ball out of the tail gunner’s hand, he’s not international standard. Simple as that. You can’t fix that as a team – how do you plan to counteract such blatant cheating when you’re getting pinged for every perceived offence you commit?!

    • Alister Smith

      Actually the Campo – Marto thing I now blame 100% on Marto. Not because it necessarily was his fault but because he annoys me so much with his commentary that I feel justified in falsely accusing him for it.

    • idiot savant

      Good points Who. I too blame Foley for DHP’s drop. It was a hospital pass. The ABs had him lined up. Coleman’s calling of the line outs showed very little nouse. He just followed the training plan. Simmons is needed to call the line outs. It was obvious that Retallick was in murderous form. If Simmons was calling he would have stood against him in every line out just to take him out of play, and called for others to take it. I think this happened once when Tui won a line out, but I’m sure by accident.

      And your point about the bench is well made. Hooper should have been benched after 45 minutes. He also should have played Shute shield last week.

      • Gareth

        sorry going to have to call bull on this one. It was a set move and even if the defensive line reads the play DHP should have caught the bloody ball. It was a fair pass and should not be dropped by a test winger. Agreed on hooper he was a stride off the pace.

      • RobC

        Nards pass to DHP was fingertip

  • The Jackal

    Throw the Baby out with the bathwater exercise.
    You can keep two players from the Bledisloe I XV, one each from the forwards & the backs to maybe challenge the ABs in Auckland next week the rest new players.

    Blood the future. The present has been given a chance for 5 years and found wanting.

    1.Alalatoa, 2. BPA 3. Tupou 4. Arnold 5. Philip 6.McMahon 7. Pocock 8. Timu
    9. Gordon 10. Toomua 11. Naivalu 12. Beale 13. Petaia 14. Maddocks 15. Banks

    • Adrian

      Looks ok to me. Tuopu injured, McMahon not available, but see your point Jackal

      • The Jackal

        Time to make people like McMahon available even if a mass exodus overseas. The players who go overseas come back more complete athletes like Beale & Toomua. Australian system is broken

        • Do they come back more complete athletes, or do they come back with a better understanding of the game. I’ve forgotten his name now, but the player that Cheika dragged back from NZ for the Ireland games, didn’t he say something to the effect of he’d learnt a load about how to play, playing in NZ. Not physically, but how to understand his position and his responsibilities. I wonder if the same is true for Toomua and Beale.

        • onlinesideline

          Pete Samu ?

        • Yes, thank you. I couldn’t get Brad Shields out of my head and I knew he was playing for England but once he was stuck there I just couldn’t get to Samu.

        • Human

          A good question. I am with you. Samu plays like a Kiwi – we need more of him. I think that our blokes are in a small pond without a lot of competition for spots and thus they do not need to develop. Their deficiencies are only really evident when we play NZ.

    • Greg

      I think a bit too much change there…. we need changes to our game plan as much (more?) as personnel.

      • onlinesideline

        we need both

    • 22DropOut

      If we do that we will lose by a cricket score.

      This is not a defence of Cheika and I do feel that it might be time for a change even (though I think a lot of the hyperbolic attacks here today are ridiculous)

      We will pick the best players we have and try and resolve whatever caused our mental fart last night.

      All we can ask is that the team plays competently and gives 100%. In our previous two games against NZ we did. We did in June and we did in the other RC games last year.

      There’s not a quick fix for being mentally weak and choosing an inferior XV and throwing them to the lions will only compound that.

      • idiot savant

        I agree with this. How do you make them mentally stronger?

        • 22DropOut

          I don’t know.

          What is puzzling is that Leinster and Waratahs were famously mentally weak when Cheika took over and he transformed them. Perhaps when you work with a team day in/day out you can do it. And perhaps it is counter-productive in small doses at test level.

          I would also note that I don’t think we were particularly mentally weak under McKenzie or Deans. We were weak in other areas which could be resolved through coaching and discipline.

          I rate Cheika very highly, but I am reluctantly beginning to think that this role is not the right fit anymore.

        • idiot savant

          Yes a club coach gets to own his players all season long but a national coach has to rely on other peoples systems to a certain extent. To his credit, Cheika has tried to improve those systems.

          I think however his way hasn’t encouraged mentally tough leaders in the national set up. And I think he made the wrong call setting up Hooper as captain. Now with the 5 year contract, we will be saddled with a leader who hasn’t been able to take charge under pressure – of the Tahs when they were in trouble last year and of the Wallies when they have been in trouble.

          At the Tahs Cheika had some natural leaders in Dennis and Pottgeiter. At Leinster he had Sexton (and they didnt always see eye to eye). Big characters who weren’t yes men. Foley has unfortunately never taken charge, Beale seems to go in and out and all of the forwards save for Pocock seem like yes men. Genia occasionally has the ears of the players but half back is so exhausting its hard to worry about what everyone else is doing. Unsurprisingly the senior players leadership goes missing under pressure. It would be interesting to see what Macqueen would have done with this group.

        • 22DropOut

          Generally I do agree (though IIRC Sexton rarely featured under Cheika and he played him as a forced change in the climax in his final games as Contepomi got injured).

          I feel that this team lacks any top quality leaders. Hooper I think is potentially still our best option but he is hardly great (I don’t necessarily see his contract as guaranteeing him captaincy either). Pocock is a great social justice warrior, not sure about his team leadership (or indeed how well he is received in the dressing room either).

          I could see potential in Coleman?

          Macqueen would be a disaster in a team without leaders, a famous delegator.

        • idiot savant

          Coleman might not have the smarts unfortunately. He has been poor as captain of the Rebels. I wanted Gibson to make Foley captain of the Tahs two years ago – to make him take charge, tell players where to stand, where to go but unfortunately Foley appears to have a natural reticence that holds him back. I liked what I saw of Hunt at 12, particularly as an organiser of defence. He was constantly assessing opposition numbers and directing players. I definitely think we need a defensive organiser in the backline now. Toomua is a natural leader and would be good but at this stage the is oo much of an outsider to the Wallabies that Im not sure he could guarantee support. Besides I doubt Cheika wants to break up the Foley Beale combo as it is his main weapon.

          Everything was looking up after the Irish series and even for the first 35 minutes last night. I thought Cheika was improving as a coach. To see them capitulate like that makes me think they lack some genuinely hard tough on field leaders. I found myself wanting guys like Fardy, Hunt, Dempsey, even Higginbotham. Guys that aren’t in awe of the ABs and will stick it to them even if we lose. Some fight.

        • Old_Laurentian

          Good insight re Fardy, Hunt etc. Hunt was a real leader and tactician. Lose people like Hunt and Cooper and life is so much harder. It is what it is, but it brings to mind trying to make silk purses out of sows’ ears.

        • Brumby Runner

          So Cheika couldn’t or wouldn’t recognise talent even back then? Sexton would have to be one of the best No 10s to come out of NH rugby in quite a while.

        • 22DropOut

          It was 2009 and the incumbent was Felipe Contepomi, a world-class player. The centres were Gordon D’Arcy and Brian O’Driscoll so not much flexibility for moving Contepomi into other positions where he excels..

          Sexton wasn’t the player he is now in 2009 either and I don’t think that many predicted the player he would become.

    • Mart

      You’ve gone a bit mental here But i do think Naivalu and Banks would be good moves

  • Andy

    I know we conceded 38 pts but our d looked ok for the most part. Our attack just looks woeful imo. So predictable and we just give the bAll away too easily. Do that the ABs any day and they will decimate you. Rugby smarts are just not there with this group of players

    • I don’t think our attack was that bad. We just, barely had any ball because of our set piece, and then got panicked and pushed passes in the second half.

      • Andy

        You’re probably right. It probably wasn’t that bad and our D was definitely worse on sober reflection, at least in the second half.

        And that’s the thing. Beating the blacks is one of the hardest things to do in sport. Home or away. When we have done it we’ve played 80 minutes.

        Sure, things will inevitably go against you at points in the game, especially against such a great team but you need to get back to your game and defend like Spartans. We just didn’t do that, again. The moment we went down by 2 tries or something went against us (ref. Retallick slap down in Genia near their try line) we didn’t keep out shape, lost our heads and they score within a 2 minutes.

        And that’s what separates this current team from being a top 7 to top 2 or 3. Just not there mentally, still…..

        • Darrin Briggs

          No defense was poor in the second half and the offense is uncreative, easy to read and lacks imagination…..rubbish coaches in Grey and Lakham

  • That had to have been the worst set piece performance in Wallabies history. 7 lineouts lost, plus continuous scrum penalties given away. I didn’t think the scrum was actually that bad, but the line out was an absolute mess.

    Sadly, Simmons has to start next week after that performance, and the Wobs need to spend every hour of every day for the next week practicing line out calls.

    • idiot savant

      Not only does Simmons have to start, he has to call the line outs. I love Coleman’s physicality but I’m starting to think it extends to between his ears as well. Simmons needs to go to Retallick at almost every line out on our own throw just to take him out of play.

  • Adrian

    If Tuopo fit, start him at THP otherwise Alaalatoa presuming Kepu injured.
    Alaalatoa at LHP if Kepu on bench for THP. Someone else as reserve LHP,… maybe Sio even with an injury.

    Keep hookers, but 15 hrs lineout practice with:
    Arnold, Coleman, Tui, Simmons, Samu. Rest Roda

    Hooper off after 55 min

    Consider discipline for Genia for mouthing off at teammates, even if warranted. If dropped start Gordon (I realise he isn’t in squad)

    Beale to 5/8

    Korebette stays at 11

    Toomou to 12

    Hodge stays at 13

    Maddocks 14

    Banks 15

    Simmons stays on bench

    Phipps, Rona, Foley on backs bench

    Bribe the refs and ref system, they were appalling, and I’ve never said that before.

    Give Nathan Grey a pat on the back. Defence was mostly good

    • Huw Tindall

      Om thinking start Simmons and Coleman!! Assuming Folau out then Banks and Maddocks and DHP back 3

      • McWarren

        Really I thought Coleman was our weakest tight five tonight.

    • 22DropOut

      I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. Last night was a(norther) mental collapse from the team.

      wholesale unforced changes won’t solve that

      • Brumby Runner

        Just yet? Fuck, we’ve been served up this bath water and the same babies now for a failed three or four years. Just when will some people recognise the time to move on?

        • 22DropOut

          Move on by changing most of the team and selecting inferior players? Makes no sense. There is an argument to changing coach. The drop all the players argument is a typical fans knee jerk reaction

        • Brumby Runner

          If you can’t see there are better players out there than TPN, Latu, Phipps, Simmons and Koroibete, and better combinations than Hooper/Pocock at 7/8 and Foley/Beale at 10/12. then I’m afraid you will be forever lost among the also rans along with Michael Cheika. It is now about a year late in getting the changes that have been obvious to most of us but it is more likely for the status quo to remain and we’ll go down probably before the quarter finals in RWC 19. Incidentally, I wonder if the lack of heart shown by many of the players in the second half last night is an indication that at last Cheika is losing the change room? Funny that it happened almost immediately after the half time break when Cheika was most likely addressing them.

        • 22DropOut

          Whatever criticisms can be labeled at Cheika, calling him an also ran doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

          The Hooper/Pocock storm is being built up by people who don’t really understand the game as far as I can see here, and Foley/Beale sadly has been our best 10/12 combination.

          As for Cheika losing the dressing room, you may be right on that point.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Not sure I agree with the complaints on the Pooper ignoring reality mate. It was a good ploy for about 1 season but it unbalances the loosies, limits the line outs and is easily nullified. I agree with 10/12 combo as “have been” the best and no options due to no development in the last 4 years. Personally I think Beale needs more space and his crabbing across the field is because he’s looking for the space he doesn’t get at 12. I’d have him at 15, Tomua at 12 as I think that offers more. I don’t rate Foley but there aren’t any choices

        • 22DropOut

          It doesn’t unbalance the the loosies and it isn’t the cause of our line out woes.

          Any criticism will stick because of group-think here but I disagree with it.

          I agree I would move Beale to 15 with Folau out

        • Greg

          I think it clearly does unbalance the back-row.

          A separate discussion is whether this is a significant issue. We were owned at the lineout…. like it or not Simmons avoids this but we are certainly limited with Hooper and Pocock.

        • Brumby Runner

          The realities of a lost series to Ireland and a thrashing by NZ so far this year? I suggest the ignorance is coming from those who want the combination to endure.

        • 22DropOut

          If you think we lost because of the combination then fair enough. I wish it was that simple

        • Old_Laurentian

          Well said. Same bathwater, same babies! Nailed it.

    • idiot savant

      Some bold thoughts here Adrian. Unfortunately I cant see Cheika going for any of them. Rodda stole two line outs and he wasn’t calling them. I would start him and Simmons with Coleman on the bench to come in and provide some real grunt (and something to prove) in the last 25 minutes. However Cheika cant do that. Coleman tried hard. He does need to have the line out calling taken off him. Rodda can call (taught by Simmons). Tui was our best jumper (and after Pocock, our best forward) so he needs to be the target more often.

      I predicted before the game that Robbo would hinge. Hes ok if scrums dont last long but struggles if the ball is held in by the opposition. Cheika needs to swallow his pride (which he wont do) and call Cameron Lillicrap this week to sort out the front row. I am sympathetic as there are a lot of new combinations. Kepu, BPA, and Sio scrummed well against Ireland. If they are all fit I would restore that combination.

      Im pretty sure Cheika wont shift Foley. He and Beale played well in Folau’s absence at the Tahs. Cheika needs to allow them to play the way they do at the Tahs. That would at least be something different for the ABs to think about. Toomua will stay on the bench. And I dont think Cheika rates Banks so I would be surprised if he stays in the squad.

      Cheika will go conservative next week and keep all his experienced players. He will point to the first 37 minutes as the way forward.

    • hippyb9

      Good defence? 6 tries conceded.

      • Adrian

        I meant 1st half, but got sick of writing any more

    • Brumby Runner

      I can hark back to the EOYT some years ago when Cooper (10) and Toomua (12) were just outstanding. Perhaps the idea of Beale (10) and Toomua (12) could be just as good. It is certainly worth a go.

      Can’t agree on the defensive structure though. Sure, it was good in the first half, but there was almost no structure at all late in the second half.

      • Old_Laurentian

        Oh please.. memories of Cooper at 10 and Toomua at 12.. another world of beauty and excitement, too sweet to contemplate. But who is to say it’s impossible …?

        • Brumby Runner

          Every Foley defender on this site for starters.

    • Darrin Briggs

      Nathan Grey a pat on the back…….what game were you watching..5 tries in the second half…Grey is rubbish and needs to go!

      • Adrian

        I meant 1st half, then got sick of writing

  • McWarren

    Gee surprise surprise. We start Robinson, Hooper, Foley, Beale, Folau, backed up by Tui, TPN, Latu and wonder why the fuck the the result is the same as last year. Cheika throwing tantrums in the box. Hooper talking shit to the ref, a midfield scrum let’s go right to Izzy when even fuck face Phil new it was happening.

    Fuck this! Until Cheika’s gone and players and teams are picked ability and the skills to perform their roles in off.

    Good luck lads I’m no longer interested in discussing Wallaby failures.

    • McWarren

      I wonder what Cheika’s andHoopers excuse will be this time. Blame the super teams for not being fit enough at line out time? Maybe captain mike will give us a lovely corporate bullshit speech on our how all the kpi’s indicated we should have won so we’ll need to re-examine our….bullshit, bullshit….bored.

      • idiot savant

        I thought you were no longer interested…

        • McWarren

          Starting now. But before I go, how much do you want to bet the sacrificial lambs will be thrown onto Eden park so Cheika can blame them and revert to type for the remainder of the RC. Then we’ll run a second string AB’s close in the last game and claim it as a vindication of the continued selection of Foley, the Pooper, a crabbing 12, an overated ’Superstar’ fullback, an underweight and slow Tahs front row, another over the hill hooker, a 6 who runs like a giraffe, a league convert who we just had to have and continue to ignore smart tough and willing footballers, guys who know how to play as a team, who know how to improve their skills. Until Cheika and Hooper are gone I’m lost to Oz rugby.

        • joy

          Bye

  • adastra32

    Awful lot of hopes were built on this one. Good line speed (for a while), but poor set-piece, daft errors (= NZ tries), and a game plan that every team in world rugby knows will not have any variation. So after riding the initial blow-out, no real questions are asked of the oppo.

  • skip

    This team is like an alcoholic, it can’t expect to get better until it admits it has a problem. The philosophy that drives the tactics & selection and the coaching that delivers sub par skills and on field decisions have been endlessly exposes, yet we persist, unwilling to admit there’s a flaw. How test level players can have such poor contact skills is a mystery & what makes a man allegedly worth $1.2 million a season call a line out to himself against a locking pair that consists of a 100 test all black & a former world player of the year who each have 20 cm on him is something equally lost on me. They will be better still and Eden Park could be even uglier

  • onlinesideline

    Good morning delusional patriots. Im sure all points will be well covered.

    Just One Question: The bloke that was trying to get that League-Union hybrid game going.
    Find out who he is, where he is, where he lives. Get the Australian special forces to track him down if need be (maybe use some trackers from “Country”)
    Because unless that happens we have buckeys of being a force.

    The AB 3rd XV could do us. We are a team full of very very average rugby players.
    While Cheikas ability to coach seems limited, its ridiculous to blame it entirely on him.
    Our SR sides are useless. We are slow and soft. The ABs are fast and hard. And thats before we even tall about smarts and strategy.

    A team full of Tahs that couldnt beat a kiwi team are asked to beat a team that is full of Crusaders and yet are even better than the Crusaders. Then throw in guys like Rodda and Tui who belong to a team who won 4 or 5 SR matches. What have these guys actually achieved for us to be in any way confident.

    Wallaby horror is just SR reality thrown back in our face. The Wallabies are a team of very average Australian SR players that are asked to play like SR winners. It aint gonna happen.

    • 22DropOut

      We can beat them, should have beaten them twice last year and won the Bledisloe. Our players are not as bad we think and NZ’s are not as good as we think.

      There’s something wrong mentally with the team. Is that the coaches or the leadership group? I don’t know.

      As for the Tahs v NZ sides, with competent coaching I’m sure there would have been numerous victories in the post-Cheika era.

    • Brumby Runner

      I don’t see this game as a turning point, but as a reality check. The turning point for me will occur if Cheika refuses to see that his team of favourites and their almost non-existent game plan doesn’t need a complete overhaul for Bledisloe 2. The whole extent of the game plan last night appeared to be to “give it to Izzy”. I’ve never seen Folau receive the ball so often in the backline around the No 13 spot. The fact he could do nothing with it amply demonstrates that he is not a No 13 and probably never will be.

      • onlinesideline

        I wonder if its Cheika or larkham. He seems to cop no criticism becuase of his mild manner etc and I wonder what the truth is here.

      • idiot savant

        What flabbergasted me was that Folau wasn’t used on kick offs, nor were there any cross kicks to him.

        I dont think its possible to overhaul a game plan in a week. I expect Cheika will double down on basically the same side and tactics arguing that it was turnovers that beat them and point to the first 37 minutes.

        Next week will be very interesting.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate I was wondering about that all night. I’m open and have admitted in the past I don’t rate Folau that high and certainly not as a fullback but I do admit he is without peer at chasing a high kick and never saw it all night, until he got injured. I got the feeling that he just wasn’t that interested n the game. He certainly didn’t go looking for work

        • Greg

          Thoughts as to why? Over the rugby thing?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Not sure mate but maybe. He seems like someone who enjoys being a star so maybe he’s starting to think he can’t shine as bright as he’d like to

        • Brumby Runner

          There are two signals coming through to me. One is that Cheika may have lost the change room and that showed in the way they all gave up giving a fuck in the second half. Or that Folau has set his mind on a stint with the Broncos next year and doesn’t now have any enthusiasm for the game.

          I have nothing more than my own observations and interpretations but where there’s smoke there’s usually fire of some sort.

  • Daniele Licciardello

    Is it just me or did Australian rugby sadly pass away with Jonny Wilkinson’s drop goal in 2003?
    Sorry guys but I’m half Australian half Italian so you can imagine why I’m giving up…

    • onlinesideline

      The 2003 team was lucky to be in the final. Eddie was not considered to be a good coach and the team was considered by most as average to fair but who rose to the occassion. I wouldnt say 2003 was a benchmark of any kind. Rod Macqueen moving on was more of a turning point.

      • Ed

        And Eales after the Tri-Nations this year. Jones did little coaching for that series win as the team was still Macqueen’s despite EJ coming in as the boss.

        • 22DropOut

          The players ran the show under Macqueen. But maybe that’s to his credit given the once in a lifetime leadership group that he had.

        • idiot savant

          Are players allowed to run the show under Cheika? And do we have the kind of natural leaders who could?

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    I feel your pain mate. That was a pretty inept display. Folau looked as though he didn’t want to be there, not competing unless the ball is handed to him on a platter, Set pieces pretty shit and no one seeming to take charge.
    I was at the game so missed a lot of the commentary but a point for me was when Maddocks scored and the Wallabies rushed back for the kickoff, Reid brought all the players in under the posts and spoke for about 2 minutes. From there the team just got it together. Great leadership.

    • Timbo

      Not trying to be abrasive, but you can’t know our pain. Your national team is the best in the world and has 5 extra gears than anything we can muster. Plus the account details of one Jaco Peyper ;)

      • Ed

        This is for my fellow Australians –
        In the 33 tests since the 2015 RWC the Wallabies have conceded MORE penalties in 19 of those matches, given away fewer penalties in nine games, the same amount in five.
        Maybe we should note the Wallabies have a discipline problem.

        • Geoffro

          And how many of those penalties have been scrum infringements.Our tight five has been crap for years now and bar Taniela Tupou I don’t see too many improvements on the horizon.

        • Human

          I do not agree – I think that the scrum improved immensely with the previous forwards coach but has gone backwards now. What annoys me most is the incessant self-promotion before a game – about how great our scrum is; how we will dominate; etc. The fact that our forwards then get bent over a drum is irrelevant (though it would be nice to avoid that experience every so often). What has changed in Australia that we now feel the need to tell everyone how great we are? Where has the humility and quiet confidence gone? When did we become a nation of crass, boorish, dickheads? I’d move to NZ except Jacinda Ardern will not let me buy a property.

        • WC Grace

          Fear not, Aussies are exempted. You can buy.

        • Human

          Thankyou, I am on my way – will just pick up an AB jersey at Rebel Sport on the way to the airport.

        • Archie

          We welcome you with open arms.

          What’s that you’re after… property!? … bring loads of dosh and we’ll find you a nice lil one bedroom appartment in Auckland, or keep most of that in the bank if you’re prepared to live a little further down amongst the shakier part of the isles.

          Either way, would be great to see you wearing black :)

        • Human

          Thanks Archie
          it’s a small price to pay in order to have a competent rugby team to support.

        • disqus_NMX

          You should change your profile name from Human to Traitor. Don’t slam the door on your way out.

          PS – I get your comments about the Aussie crowd behaviour, but you haven’t been paying much attention to the Kiwi crowd behaviour is all I have to say. Talk about the grass is greener.

        • Human

          I was thinking of changing it to ‘Realist’.
          I guess the other option is to stay here and watch League/Soccer/AFL?
          I never slam the door.

        • disqus_NMX

          Most pessimists consider themselves realists ;) I confess I’ve grown to quite like AFL. League I find excruciatingly boring. Soccer meh. There’s always netball. Either way, you’re being an extreme optimist if you think you’ll find a crowd of gentlemen amongst any of those. I’d bet that you’d end up full circle back to Rugby.

        • Geoffro

          They used to call it larrikinism,don’t know about the humble quiet confidence though.Been around for 60 odd and haven’t seen too much of that amongst the Oz sporting community in my time.Prefer to call it competitive.Go to Tassie,nearly as quaint as NZ though not as progressive.No rugby though,only AFL (god forbid)

        • Human

          I don’t have quite your experience Geoffro so can only say that, to me, if it were truly larrikinism (that has gone missing too) one of our mates would be telling us we were up ourselves and we should pull our heads in. Maybe the Kiwis are doing that by sending the AB’s over a bit underdone, giving us a sniff for 37′, before taking their liberties. Am not sure about Tassie – everyone is related down there…thanks for the tip though.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        True, although I’m aHurricane supporter so I do know some of it

        • Alister Smith

          If you were a Blues supporter I might let you pass ;)

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yeah fair call although I think the Canes are a better pick for a similar team promising so much and failing to deliver. At least you know the Blues will fuck it up

    • McWarren

      Great leadership from read, shit reffing from Jaco who should have stopped the clock, and poor leadership from Hooper, Genoa and Pocock who should have been screaming at Jaco to stop the clock.

      • Geoffro

        Jaco wasn’t watching too closely what was going on around him,what makes you think he was listening.

        • idiot savant

          He was watching some other game.

      • Human

        The ref had a complete shocker. Still, a part of me was happy that the bloke in the box stayed out of it unless he was asked a direct question – e.g. with the NZ try.

    • idiot savant

      “no one seemed to take charge”. You have hit the nail on the head there KRL. Real leadership has never been encouraged under Cheika. Real leaders dont just lick their coaches boots. I dont think any of the team leadership except for Pocock (who is not captain) have the capacity to step out of Cheika’s shadow and take charge.

    • Human

      Did anyone else notice that Pocock was doing a lot of talking to the ref in the first half – only once, that I saw, Hooper walked up, told him to go away, and took over the conversation.

      • first time long time

        Yeah I noticed that and was quietly hoping Pocock was going to say Fark off Hoops you’re fired!

        • Brisneyland Local

          Me too!

      • Brisneyland Local

        Pocock can communicate, Hooper alas can not. It really shows that Hooper isnt a Captain arsehole!

        • Happyman

          I disagree BL Hooper is a Captains arsehole.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Pure Gold!

  • Keith Butler

    Well that was a bit of a disappointment. Thought we were in with a chance up to the break. Really strong defence and the ABs looked ring rusty. All change in the 2nd half though. Set piece not up to standard. I don’t think I’ve seen a worst line out performance in years. For all the talk of TPN and Latu’s contribution at scrum time and around the park, they could not hit a barn door. I also find it difficult to see how anyone who’s been out injured with a hamstring injury for weeks can step straight back into a match against the best team in the world and be expected to perform at his very best. Never been a fan of the Pooper but I reckon it’s time for Cheks to bite the bullet and bring some balance into the back row. Pocock at 7, Tui at 6 and an 8 that has the complete skill set required. Don’t know what to do with the backs. Seems to me that Beale spends more time going sideways before going forward which gives the opposition defence time to set. Hodge at 13 not the answer and Koribete has to go.

  • dsb

    Don’t think I’ve missed a test in Sydney since 2003. We decided not to travel down to watch this time and decision justified. Wallabies were deep breathing early in the first half and sitting on the couch there was a feeling that it was only a question of time. The last few years of poor governance and disruption to playing teams is still evident in Aus. We seem to think individuals are stars and that individuals will win us a game. The ABs are all stars but they are also a team. That is the difference. We should make big changes and select for the future and forget talking ourselves up. Unbelievable!

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      That team comment is so right. The Wallabies still act like seperate franchises and individuals.

    • onlinesideline

      Its the lazy mans way to run a code. The marketing way. Just spend the requisite amount of bucks and voila !!. Its the difference in approach between the 2 countries. In OZ rugby is a “code” that competes against other “codes”, dreams of 80 000 ppl crowds, signing of big players from rival codes. In NZ rugby is rolling green hills, sheep (often scared sheep), rain, gumboots, humility, values and playing smart. The rest just follows.

  • 22DropOut

    Cleary we are beaten before the game even starts and we fear NZ.

    We played better in June against a team we don’t fear (or even respect) and a team which objectively played better than a NZ side we collapsed mentally to last night.

    Perplexing. Something is very wrong

  • Kev Brown

    Same shit no change same result
    How many more lost games
    I applaud the effort of few
    It’s not getting the win that sucks rather the lack of improvement

  • 22DropOut

    We will have a moral victory with a spirited display in NZ next week, beat the other rubbish teams in the SH, give the 3rd test a real challenge and have a reality check again in November.

    The circle of life.

    The team is mentally weak. All week the talk of “we know we can beat NZ” shows they really don’t or it would go un-said.

    NZ brought their C-game last night, below the opposition level we faced in June but we just feared them and panicked at any opportunity. Failed to execute our basic bread and butter set-pieces.

    If same opposition were wearing Ireland or Wales shirts last night we’d have won by double-digits

    • Alister Smith

      Just not sure the other SH teams will be rubbish. It will take everything we can muster to beat the Saffers and Argentina under their new coach who substantially improved the Jaguares will be better.

      The “we know we can beat the All Blacks” is a dumb statement I think. As you say it should go unsaid. If you talk to the top teams in all sports their concentration is so much on their processes and getting them right that they don’t allow themselves to thinking of the outcome ahead of time.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Mate I agree 100% on the mental skills and decision making. I’ve been banging on about this for years, it’s the mental approach that is stopping their skills on the practice field being implemented on the game field

      • I watched SA v Argentina yesterday too. Argentina look massively improved from June when they were at sixes and sevens. They’ve got frailties but they’re not a pushover. The Boks look more cohesive than they have for a while too. I don’t think they’ve necessarily got their best players at every position, but every player buys in to the coach’s plan and philosophy of how they should play, so they’re playing more like a team.

        It’s hard to judge of course, neither of these sides is the ABs, neither of them is the ABs like they were in the first 35 minutes even. But based on yesterday’s performance they will both scrummage well. They will both work their lineouts well. And if Foley kicks as poorly as he did at times yesterday, they both have the potential to run back from deep dangerously. If the Wob’s attack doesn’t come out to play, it could be a painful Championship.

        • Parker

          Respectfully disagree. The Pumas got pushed over in many scrums. Surprising to see from a Ledesma team. But they did make a good game of it for the first half and a bit of the second, yet lost the plot several times in the second half. I do agree that both those teams will pose serious challenges to the Wallabies of yesterday.

          The telecast I managed to pull in of that game on my pirate internet link was commentated by Brazilians. Their mellowness was amazing. Now I know what rugby on Valium would be like.

        • I definitely give an edge in the scrums to the Boks yesterday. But the Pumas won several quite decisively, and held their own too. It wasn’t totally one-sided IMO.

          Unless the Wobs really step (and it’s hard to judge against different sides I know) I give them both a serious edge over the Wallabies pack in the scrum.

      • Parker

        Seems like the only mental thing Thorn is contributing is a closed mind.

  • Miss Rugby

    One thing I noticed in the second half was our defence during loose play. Specifically, when an AB’s player broke the line. I noticed at least 2 times when the defender was beaten, but then just stopped chasing. When Naholo was chasing the kick which led to a try there was a Wallabies player jogging after him. I’m not sure who it was. Surely a full on sprint would have been the go?
    Another time one of the AB’s just slipped by Hooper, who then slowed. I would have thought he’d show a bit more desperation by diving, trying anything to get a hand on the player … anything really. Not having a go at Hooper, he’s a great player (but despite some media reports I personally didn’t think he had much of an impact in this one) but it was something I noticed.
    There were a lot of players who seemed to go missing last night.
    And WTF was with the stupid offloads at really dumb times??? If Latu had held the ball we would have been in in the next phase or 2.

    • Human

      I noticed this as well…Hodge was the culprit at the end. Hooper was not fit enough after 8 weeks out

      • Mart

        Yep i noticed this too. This bothers me most of all. I coach my kids to never give up a chase no matter what. I saw Genia jog then stop when retallick strolled past him and Robertson give up and Tui…. I don’t care if you’re miles away, you bust a gut till they’ve dotted it down. Makes me sick to see that.

    • Mart

      Watch Genia off the Retallick try. Not a good look

  • 22DropOut

    Any thoughts on Golliwog-gate?

    Puts the potato comments from Kearns in perspective :)

    • Human

      I wondered, at the time, if that comment would cause a storm. Has it?

      • onlinesideline

        What and when ?

        • Human

          Gordon Bray made a comment about TPN’s haircut and noted that he was not the same without the Golliwog hair. cannot recall the point in the match

        • onlinesideline

          incredible

        • Parker

          That’s deplorable. Bray and anybody who doesn’t see the problem there need some serious re educatin.

      • 22DropOut

        Social media predictably, but it has been picked up in news outlets today.

        Profoundly stupid thing to say. I would not be calling for his head etc but they really need to have a chat with the commentary team as it makes Australia look like 1970s Britain.

    • Brisneyland Local

      I heard it too. was wondering if the blowback would come.

    • first time long time

      Let’s start with the basic assumption that his goal wasn’t to insult or racially vilify.
      There will be a big enough chorus wanting to take offence when none was meant and I dare say little/none taken from anyone with genuine cause to be offended.

      Can we just stick to slagging off our rubbish national team ; )

      • 22DropOut

        Of course it wasn’t his intention to insult (unlike Kearns) or racially vilify.

        However, you can not reference a player of colour’s “golliwog” features for obvious reasons!

        He shouldn’t be sacked or thrown to the lions but their commentary team needs to learn some basics.

        • Missing Link

          Gordon Bray should be sent back to the political correctness factory for reprograming. Clearly a malfunction

    • idiot savant

      Bray has no record of racism that I am aware of. He probably grew up reading Noddy books and is blissfully unaware of the controversy.

      • Brumby Runner

        I thought the goody two shoes Noddy character was based on the real life Gordon Bray?

    • Aron

      My sister had the supermarket re-opened after hours when she left her golliwog there
      Golliwogs are nothing but trouble

  • Brisneyland Local

    Well GAGR’s there is nothing more I hate then being right about my pre-game prediction. I have stewed on this all night, I am now well beyond angry. So everyone be prepared for another BL rant, because I am coming in off the long run up (apologies in advance for the poor language):

    – Congratulations to the AB’s, they continue to demonstrate what being the best means. They had a shit first half and were still able to ship us by 20+.
    -Cheika has to go. The team is regressing. He has been weighed in the balance and found wanting. Not just tonight, pretty much every Wallaby game he has coached. His selections unbalance the team, and he continually rewards crap. He can not take this team to RWC19. Find someone else and quickly. The man is an ass clown. He whinging and bleating and carry on in the coaches box is an embarrassment. We need someone who can actually coach.
    – The Referump was below par, but as most GAGR’s will know, I always say to take it out of the Referumps hands, and we cant. Jaco is shit, but even if all of the dubious calls had gone our way, we still would have lost convincingly.
    – What the fuck is our game plan? Do we even have one? This is the realm of coaches, and we know ours are shite.
    – Hooper can not be the Captain. His decision making and leadership are poor. He can not communicate with referump because they switch off. His team doesn’t listen to him, and he cant guide them because he doesn’t even know what he is doing. Hence Genia giving the players a serve. Generally not a good thing, but when your captain aint doing his job there is a vacuum. Hooper should be on the bench as a utility player, because he selection as 7 continues to impinge the structure of the team.
    – Our scrum was shit. Robinson penalised twice in the first two scrums. He shouldn’t be in the squad let alone in the starting 15. Interesting to note that when the original squad was announced the odds were AB’s $1,46 Wallabies $4.78. When it was announce Tupou the Scrum beast was out, the odss went to AB’s $1.06 and Wallas $8.00. Hmmmmmmmmm, I think there is something in that for all of us.
    – Our defence appeared good for the first 35 mins, but after watching the game again this morning, I am now convinced that the AB’s just weren’t firing and that flattered us. Our guys were just trying to Bash the AB’s and we all know that that doesn’t work.
    – Koribette doesn’t understand the game well enough, and has to learn to kick.
    – Foley is shit. I have said it so many times now that I hate hearing my own voice. But he has to go. Toomua at 10, or invest in one of the young guys. Fuck even bring back QC until a young guy gets there, but Foley has to go. He has no idea on what is going on out there and those stupid passes are having players crunched which means we cough up the pill.
    – What the fuck happened with our line out. I am convinced that we telegraphed our intentions on pretty much everyone and the AB’s worked it out and countered. Very disappointing.
    – We are off to Eden Park next. The Kiwi’s will have blown out there cobwebs, and are going to do things to us that you wouldn’t do to a farm animal. We are in serious trouble, and Cheika the Ass Clown is going to have to dive into his bag of tricks to try and pull a rabbit out of his hat. But alas, he left his bag of tricks at home. Cheika is not capable of making the necessary changes to the team. He is beholden to his favourites and will persist with them.

    Well GAGR’s I am just pissed off. That result was absolutely predictable and it is not going to get better.

    • Human

      I hope that you were not so pissed as to forego your early morning spin around the River…beautiful morning for it though a trifle uncomfortable after the rogering we suffered last night.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Human, that is probably half the reason that I am pissed off. Half the riding group was over watching the game with me. I think everyone was too pissed when they left so we called off the ride. We were all drinking to drown our sorrows. Am hitting the weights shortly beofre BL family head out to a French lunch!

    • Miss Rugby

      Well he’s going to have to change something because apparently Folau has been ruled out of next week. but what’s the bet instead of making changes and trying something he just shuffles around the players he has, brings in someone like Banks to the bench then doesn’t use him in the game?

      Before this match the media were banging on about how a permanent coaching team was fantastic, the thing the Wallabies need and have been missing. Can’t see them making changes in that department now after all the fuss. Personally I think Cheika has been given too many chances – lack of any other options is helping him keep the job sadly.

      • Brisneyland Local

        The Foley situation is analogous to the Cheika dilema. No pressure as no one is behind him. But like the Foley scenario, there are other options they are just being excluded.

        • 22DropOut

          There aren’t other realistic options to Foley or Cheika right now. Things will change with Cheika, I don’t see where another #10 is going to come from

        • first time long time

          That argument is not a good enough reason to keep going with this train wreck.

        • 22DropOut

          The argument to play your best players is the only one that makes sense. Some of the “drop everyone” stuff here is embarrassing.

          I would agree about questioning Cheika.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I don’t think people are saying drop everyone mate. Certainly get rid of Foley, Koroibete and Hooper starting, bring back Arnold and move Beale out where he can find space without crabbing. Have Pocock as captain and Genia as VC, bring in a good 8 so the loosies are balanced and you have another line out option, get Tupou in the front row and …….. Fuck it is almost drop everyone. Shit!

        • GO THE Q REDS

          BINGO

        • first time long time

          still don’t see where Foley fits in

        • GO THE Q REDS

          BUT there needs to be players being developed as options in the background. Right now if Foley got injured with Folou out… . we are literally screwed. Because to many players are being used as cover for others.. . .instead of playing positional specialists.

        • 22DropOut

          Of course players need to be developed. They stake their claim in Super Rugby and you develop them at the opportune time. When players aren’t staking a claim and your next game is in Eden Park against New Zealand it isn’t the opportune time.

          Our games against Argentina and November tests against Italy and Wales would be opportune times.

        • AlanC

          So we’ve not played a test in the last 2 years where another 10 could have been given a run? (Without putting Foley outside them that is).

        • 22DropOut

          Ah attacking the straw-man.

          I made no such comment but you want to get the players we should have developed at 10 off your chest, so go ahead.

        • AlanC

          Fairy’s nuts – I actually agree that Eden Park isn’t the place to blood a newbie at 10. Just pissed off that the opportunity to give someone (anyone) else some time in the slot when it wasn’t so vital…

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          No it’s not. Rewarding failure never works. Look at Socialism for that lesson

        • 22DropOut

          Dangerous tangent possibilities here!

        • Brisneyland Local

          I disagree on the 10 option. I would rather any one other than Foley now. He is the worst option. There are other coaches around the world that would be able to be poached. But we have to have an Aussie coach. Because no one can coach an Aussie team like an Aussie coach (Sarcasm).

        • 22DropOut

          To paraphrase Winston Churchill (a man I have little respect for but indulge me), Foley is the worst option apart from all the other ones.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Ah yes, Winston’s quote on Democracy! Guilty your honour, I wrote my Thesis on WC. Foley needs to be dropped to re-discover his form. every game he gets worse., IMO. Mind you there are plenty others on here that share it. I dont dislike Foley, but we are never going to win with him in the slot.

        • Funk

          Hahahaha…you made me laugh…you know as well as i do he won’t get dropped. now that Izzy is injured a new plan will arise for Cheik…something we have seen before. My crystal ball says Foley moved to 12, beale to fullback and Toomua to 10…Deja vu anyone???

        • Brisneyland Local

          Funk, My intial thoughts were, not even Cheika would be that stupid to do that. But alas after I gave myself an uppercut!

        • GO THE Q REDS

          My vote for YEARS has been Jack Maddocks. People laughed at me when I put his name in the mix. And yet in his first year in the big league he’s broken club records and had a successful Wallaby debut. Clearly a future option as a playmaker with REAL talent. …

        • Brisneyland Local

          Definitely worth an investment.

        • idiot savant

          Its a good point BL. People are usually off their game when there is no pressure to perform.

        • Brisneyland Local

          One needs pressure to stay sharp, focussed and hungry.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Cooper was 100% an option in 2017……had better form then Foley by seasons end after having injury issues the 1st half of the season. Was simply dumped without a go and since then there has been Zero attempt at development options at 10. Something I’ve talked very strongly about in the forums for YEARS. But now we finally have a 10 in the wider squad who couldn’t even hold his spot at Conahct and another who can’t hold a spot at the Reds. It’s not looking good….

        • Brisneyland Local

          Nope it is looking terrible.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        You won’t miss Folau. I thought he didn’t want to be there anyway last night

        • Fatflanker

          The time has come to put him at 13 or on the wing.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Rubbish.. … watch the AB defence line when Folou pushes it. …..hes the ONLY non front rower the ABs pile in on. He’s a Massive threat. I’ll be surprised if we score a legitimate point without Folous draw and Foley’s vision.

      • Darrin Briggs

        The full time coaching team hasn’t produced the goods…defensive effort was poor in the second half, offence was really not creative and set piece was amateur hour.

    • disqus_NMX

      QC could make 20 horror brain farts per game and still end up with a better win ratio than Foley. But no, let’s stick to a predictable, conservative 10, because that’s safer, and it’s better to lose 9 out of 10 games safely to the ABs than have someone unpredictable like QC.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Heaven forbid!

      • Archie

        Cooper has had much worse horror shows against the Kiwis than Foley has.

        • onlinesideline

          thats crap

        • Alex George

          His stats actually aren’t that much better overall, and he had the good fortune to play much of his test career under Robbie Deans when we were consistently Number 2 in the world. Its a lot easier to chalk up wins against England and South Africa when you have O’Connor Beale Ioane etc to work with, and a reasonably strong forward pack as well.

        • onlinesideline

          I dont get your logic

          Maybe we were no 2 because QC was instrumental in steering the teams offense properly.

          Foley has Beale and Izzy outside him – same if not better than Beale Ione and others

          Our forward pack was not reasonably strong. It took Ladesme to correct the scrum problems only in 2014-15. Before that on Quades watch our forwards had scrum weakness and go forward wealness.

          Quade can make something out of nothing a gazillion times better than Foley.

        • 22DropOut

          He explains his logic clearly. What don’t you get? Fair enough if you don’t agree and think that winning was all down to QC but it’s pointlessly intellectually dishonest saying that you don’t get his logic.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Beale is in career best form NOW.
          Folou is statistically our best FB ever.
          Kerevi is demolishing attacking stats for centres NOW.
          And we have Foley……..

        • Alex George

          “Maybe we were no 2 because QC was instrumental in steering the teams offense properly.”

          Except that we won at the same rate even when QC didn’t play, so no, that doesn’t hold water. Besides, no single player ever has that much effect on the game, not even the greats. Have a look at the ABs and learn a lesson – they were never dependent on Carter or McCaw.

          To put it another way, your messiah complex about Quade is merely self-delusion.

          And no, the players aren’t the same – yes its Beale and Folau now – that’s it. That’s quite different to a Robbie Deans game plan using any three or four of O’Connor, Beale, Barnes, Ioane and AAC. That is what enabled Quade to flourish.

          And no, our forwards are no stronger now than they were then – did you watch the game on Saturday?

        • Archie

          Yep. Quade, like most Kiwi raised 10s, has a natural flair and vision. But god did he bottle some games under a bit of pressure. It got to the point as a Kiwi fan we’d be begging for the Aussies to start him.

        • Brumby Runner

          As many of you now are in relation to Foley and the Pooper. Most of you keep quiet about Simmons but I guess you just don’t want to raise his profile in fear of him being dropped.

        • Archie

          I think Aus are a more dangerous outfit with Hooper, Folau and Pocock on the field. Not so much Foley.

        • onlinesideline

          In foottball terms he wasnt raised in NZ though. He moved to Australia in early teens and formatve football years was in OZ.

          He made no more mistakes than Foley but far more skilled at breaking the line or setting others up. He never bottled games at all – just jealous kiwis embelllsihing it because one got a away and went to OZ and they couldnt handle him tearing up many a Crusader teams and they hated it.

        • Archie

          Hahahaha… yes you got me. SO jealous!!! We were just itching to swap the likes of Carter for Cooper!

          I see you’ve wiped from your memory such magical performances like the 2011 RWC semi final. Don’t blame you at all.

        • onlinesideline

          Every player has a match they would prefer to forget, even loverboy Carter. They also have matches they like to rememeber. Say the Tri nations victory in Brisbane the same year ably steered by Cooper, the Hong Kong Australian victory ably sealed by Cooper and JOC. Bledisloe in Forsyth bar in 2014 where Quade silenced the mullets and sideburns brigade with a 9 from 9 kicking performance. Carter played behind a Crusaders and all Blacks pack all his career, and was never really tested. He had a great boot off the tee and in open play as well but other than that was very pedestrian. He was safe and suited the ABs but paled in comparison to Quades step, passing and vision. No-one comes close mate. Kiwis just hated him for not bowing to Rutchie and the AB proganda machine. All he did was rough Macaw up a bit. Never seen such a display of sanctamonious kool-aid.

        • Archie

          Oh of course, I’m sure the rest of the world know how amazing he was… just look at all World Rugby Player of the Year Awards’s he took home!

          And hey he’s done you well… think of all those Bledisloes and World Cups he’s helped ya grab.

          Speaking of kool aid…

        • onlinesideline

          Like I said mate, playing behind a good pack and having good backs outside you, you dont have to be extraordinary indiviudually as a 10, just do the basics and do the basics well and thats what he did. He was rock solid. But extraordinary ? – No – A lot of Flair ? – again No – Rock Sold ? – yep – Boring even ? – yep . He served you well though as a union player but wouldnt last 2 seconds in NRL for instance, just would have been monstered. Too slow, too pedestrian. Mehrtens was world class in my book but he had his critics in NZ.

        • Mica

          Mate, I think you have to watch a few more of Carter’s games. He’s much more than just a boot and is definitely one of the best. You may be thinking of his later career when he had lost a bit of pace, but even then he was still a complete, running, passing and kicking flyhalf. Interestingly he started his career at 12 and replaced Mauger if I recall who was one of best running 12s going around at the time. As much as I have admired QCs running and passing game at times, I’d take DC every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Bernie and Lynagh are the only ones I have seen who compare. I expect Ella is there also, but I have only seen highlights so you’d have to ask the veterans on this one.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Quades last Super Rugby game he dominated, steering the Reds to a Last second win against the table topping Brumbies…..He also kicked 11 from 11 in a club game a few weeks ago. He is NOT where he is atm because of bad form… ..

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Don’t forget a 1/5th of New Zealanders live in Australia. …. and given the Rugby-Kiwi-Quade Hate factor…… that’s alot of Cooper hate spread among rugby fans HERE in Wallaby territory.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Nope. He has had more victories playing 10 against the All Blacks than Foley has.

        • Gareth

          yes but his days are gone. he couldn’t even get Souths past the semi’s in club rugby here in Brisbane.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yes but considering Souths hadnt made the semi’s for a while, that was a big step forward.

        • Gareth

          Id say a world class number 10 should get his club side into the final

        • Brisneyland Local

          He is only 1 of 15. You put Foley in that Club team and he wouldnt have got them there!

        • Gareth

          Agree with you there as neither is world class.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I’m not so sure. He’s actually played very well against us at times, just needs to stop letting the wankers in the crowd get to him.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          RUBBISH

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Beggars belief mate. I still don’t rate QC that high because he can’t tackle and just does dumb shit every now and then BUT I think he offers more than powder puff Foley that’s for sure.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          You should really educate yourself with some facts on that. While Coopers tackle method isn’t the ussual…..its efficiency rating is on par with any good 10. PLUS it keeps him in the defensive line for more time doing what what he’s pretty good at…… organizing the back line. And that’s not even getting to the topic of Concussions. Brad Thorn ALLREADY got two more 10s this year alone into concussion dramas by expecting them to tackle the 150kg rhino charging him as if he was a front rower. JUST STUPID.
          I’ll save you some time looking at stats….. McKensie and Barret are among the worst Super Rugby defenders statistically but because of what they offer, are the first picked as ABs.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          You know what they say “lies, damn lies & statistics”. I don’t care what they say his technique is not good; he goes high to rip the ball or smother which gets him in the no arm tackle situation too much. Barrett makes a lot of good tackles on big guys but doesn’t do it front on because he doesn’t want to get hurt.
          The tactic of taking QC out of the line to hide contributed to the perception he had, but he also let far too many runners through. Personally I would have seen him more eff3ctive at 10 because he would have had the support he didn’t get at the back where he was on his own.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          But that’s just YOUR opinion. ….because in case you haven’t noticed……ALL the small guys use that technique of stripping while bringing them back and down IF tackle support is close by. Notice QUADE or anyone never does it in an open field tackle? And Aron Smith does the same tackle technique all the time, Ritchie Mo even does it…..but I want to hear your comment on the concussion issue. And the FACT that Quades actual tackle stats make someone like Damien McKenzies tackle stats look like primary school numbers….. .yet he doesn’t get smashed by people in the know as a bad defender. You know why? Because “small” guys tackling, and defending in open field rugby should always be taken into account.
          Or how about Foley. He gets hidden out on the wing ALL the time. Plus his actual tackle stats are very poor…. .. yet I’ve never once heard a single kiwi say Foley shouldn’t be picked because he can’t tackle……. let alone his issues on attack.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think B.B. is a much better tackler than QC and I wish the coaches had left him to learn how to defend properly as I think that was the start of him not being as good as he could be. I agree with Foley but I think he has so many issues that tackling is almost the least of them

    • Adrian

      Basically true BL

      • Brisneyland Local

        Mate, and I am not comfortable with being able to predict the future with having no ability to influence it. I so desperately want us to do well. I think we can, but the ledership must change, and so a number of key positions.

    • Happyman

      Although I agree with most sentiments I will make a couple of points on with respect to the game now hat I have had a chance to heal.
      The Ref had a preconcieved view about the scrums from the start. The first pen the AB prop lost his bind and went down and it is pen AB’s from that point on the scrums were only going one way.
      Our lineout was slow to the air against two of the best locks and 8 in the modern era. We lost 7 and stole 3
      AB’s scored by my count 4 tries from turnover which was the difference.
      AB’s are very clinical in this part of the game.
      We continue to use League players as outside backs who just cannot make good instinctive decisions when under pressure.
      Our 10 is just not good enough and must have photos of the coach.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Yep photos of Cheika and a goat!
        It just amazes me that from a turnover they can just instantly go to attack, a quick offload and they ar through, but not only are they through there a number of support runners ready and willing to go with them. They are seeking it. Wanting it.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        I hate that you guys bring in the league players. Not one of them has ever proved worthy of the cost. FFS it took SBW years to come good and he still needs work after being coached very closely. No wonder so many rugby players go off shore. No loyalty from RA.

        • Happyman

          It has always annoyed the shit out of me mate. For some reason the ARU just seems to think that they are the answer. For mine it is not ball in hand that is the problem. They cannot pilfer, clean out or make good defensive decisions.

          As a League winger you always play with the same defender on your immediate inside and in Rugby it is much more fluid so communication and connection is key. For these skills to become instinctive they require years of training not months. Possibly the silver lining in famous injury is that Banks will be given a run I firmly believe that once selected he will play quite a few tests as hid Rugby IQ is off the charts compared to Koriebette et al.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Mate those forward passes when passing to the right WTF, a test level 10 who can’t pass both ways! That’s embarrassing.
      I see Folau is gone TBH mate I’m not sure you’ll miss him that much. I thought last night he seemed to be disinterested in the whole thing. No looking for work, out of position in defence (again!) and shit when he was there, no impact with his running and hardly any jumping for kicks. I’d have DHP over him every day.

      • Brisneyland Local

        I actually think we have some good fullbacks and wings out there. Folau strength really is the high ball. But that technique is questionable. I think he has become alzy and doesnt hunt work, he waits for things to be handed to him on a silver platter.
        Foley is shit, and should go.

    • I don’t know if you read EPSN’s rugby feed. They ran a poll “Should Cheika go?” following Greg Gowden’s opinion piece saying RA should throw the whole coaching team out right now if the Wobs are to have a chance of a decent RWC.

      Today they’ve run a poll asking who they’d like to replace him. Schmidt is currently the front runner – full disclosure: I didn’t vote for him, not because I don’t think he’d do a great job, but because I don’t think he’ll take it. I think he’s eyeing Hansen’s job post 2019.

      So, let’s say you get your fondest wish, the Ass Clown gets fired. Let’s not dwell on how we get there. I’m your fairy godmother for today… Who do you want to replace Cheika?

      • Brisneyland Local

        Yep, and the result was oer 70% saying Cheika and the whole coaching team should go.
        Schmidt is the logical choice, but we wont get him til after the world cup, if he doesnt get offered NZ or we can afford him.
        Fuck for 12 months to get us to world cup I would take Bob Dwyer, Rod McQueen, Ewan McKnezie. Laurie fischer. Anyone but Chieka for the next 12 months that might actually stop the rot. Until we can get a permanent coach.
        #anyonebut cheika

        • I think McKenzie cooked his goose before Cheika. Dwyer, McQueen or Fischer might on a short term contract. I don’t have a preference amongst them in particular.

          If you’re picking on Super Rugby success, I wonder what you’d think of Gibson – he’s currently Australian Super Rugby’s best coach in terms of results…

        • Brisneyland Local

          Just perppetuates the selection deilema’s thatwill continue. Needs to be an external with no allegiances or percieved allegiances. I agree on McKenzie, I would love him back, but I am pretty sure he would go and tell RA to shove it clean up their arses!

  • first time long time

    The most entertaining part of that game for me was hearing Genia talk to Jaco about the “Reid coming round the side of the maul when we were hard on attack and he called it straight through the middle” call late in the second half.
    Genia (something like) “ he came around the side, cynical”
    Jaco “ I didn’t see that”
    Genia “what are you watching?”

    That call hurt all the more because I think it was our only line out throw in that we won.

    Cheika’s Win % against top 8 teams is now about 35%…. yep that is shit. For comparison McKenzie’s was 44%.

    Hooper was horribly underdone and it was obvious to all pretty early, shouldn’t have been selected.

    Can someone with more time than me go through Foley’s 59 tests and count how many 30m “clearing kicks” he has put straight down the throat of opposition back three on halfway and put them in his stats as turnovers!
    He has to go and we need to put someone, anyone else there. There is no decent argument to keep him.
    Even if we don’t find the right 10 before the World Cup at least we will have tried.

    Is anyone else scared of what BL is cooking up this morning????

    • Brisneyland Local

      Already posted!

    • onlinesideline

      yeah this % of wins is something horrible. After 4 years. what have we acheved ?

      • first time long time

        I’m not sure if Cheika thinks anything is wrong.
        The take home message hasnt cganged, we need to keep doing what we are doing, just better.

  • Fatflanker

    Well, there you go.

    Highlight of the match – those beaming kids during the anthem – didn’t see too many prospective props among them which could be a worry come the 2031 RWC.

    Actually not particularly concerned about the scrum. As usual the whole rugby world will be lathering over the ‘weak Oz scrum’ but we were always going to be rumbled in the 2nd half after losing two key props before kick-off and a third getting injured in-game. The Saffas may beg to differ but ABs have the the best scrum in world rugby. Time to start Thor once he’s fit.

    Had high hopes for the line-out with our walk-in tactic and all the talk of TPN supposedly getting his throwing action sorted out in Europe. Well, that was just a total crock. May as well just peg the ball over the line-out and get Folau to jump for it.

    Mr Pepes didn’t have a total shocker but certainly gave the Wabs the rub of the brown. Killed our momentum at critical times with some very harsh interventions. He was ably unsupported by the touchies. Their collective blushes were saved by the blow-out in the second half.

    I think Cheika’s coaching encapsulated in one play – the ball is passed back to Reece Hodge who is on the dead ball line FFS but STILL drills the clearance kick to half-way. Hooray, thinks I, we’ve got a tactic to overcome his supposedly slow and charge-down-able kick. But nooooo…next two clearances taken by Team Pop Gun and dribble past the 22.

    Anyways, all this man-shaming is going to make pipping them in the RWC final all the sweeter :-)

    • Duvstar

      Generally agree, apart from JP having only a minor shocker. Him (and all the refs) were terrible. No consistency with the lifting tackle.

      Scrum was inevitable and not too worried. Lineout more concerning. What is the answer at hooker?! TPN can’t be our starting 2 at RWC 2019.

      When Reece Hodge hit that clearance I thought we’d finally turned a corner. And then you’re right, back to Foley. Seriously?! It’s not even a subjective thing – Hodge can kick the ball generally a lot longer (and with just as good direction). It’s just brainless. Foley, swallow your pride and give him those clearing kicks.

      • Fatflanker

        Biggest issue with JP – he backed himself on the contentious calls when it really would have been appropriate to actually use the TMO. I guess we’ve been demanding less interference from the TMO and that’s what we got this game. Pass the grapes!

  • Hoss

    Pass me the lube and cue the circus music (ree dee diddy diddy dee do do do do)

    Roll up, roll up to the Wallaby tent of Wonders

    Step inside our tent of wonders, dispair, incredulty. Be perplexed, challenge what you think you know

    Two bob a ticket

    The disappearing 10, now you see him, now you don’t.

    The hilarious 11, what game is he playing . You guess, he doesn’t know

    The amazing bearded women – watch as he uses tarot cards for his next selections

    The tight 5 clowns, sit back and laugh as they try to chase a ball with hilarious outcomes

    The South African savant, wonder as he makes transgressions disappear, invents others and leaves you scratching your head searching for answers

    The lovable pine riders – they’ll try they’ll fail and you will ride the emotions with them

    The confused 13, he tries to fit in but you’ll laugh at his antics

    The screaming crowds, the music the fanfare.

    You’ll laugh, you’ll cry you’ll want more

    And you’ll leave with a sore arse.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Gold!

      • Hoss

        Congrats mate. Too good. I’ve never seen a team score so much, playing so little rugby. Not a criticism, just a side prepared to contain, wait for mistakes and their transformation in counter-attack truly is something to behold. The Wallabies will be waking up today going ‘WTF just happenned, For 40 minutes we were in this up to our teeth’. Not saying they would win but I didn’t see a 5 try to 1 final score at halftime. Excuse my delusion, but a few changes, less mistakes and more aggression will see the wallabies more competitive at Eden Park. The gold boys contributed greatly to their own demise – maybe they should change their name to the Aztecs.

        • Brisneyland Local

          For 40 mins the AB’s hadnt woken up! we were only in it because of that. As I predicted we would be in it to half time, then bend over and think of England!

        • Human

          I am not convinced that the rogering we received from England was any less distasteful than that dished out last night…I expect us to give at bit back to England whereas with the AB’s, one is resigned to suffering in silence like innocents cast adrift in a sea of sin.

        • Brisneyland Local

          OMG that is so right!

        • Parker

          Baaaa. There was a lot of bleating in the second half.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Allegedly

        • Greg

          Enjoy the lube @hoss. It felt like it was happening already in the second half.

          You call wallabies by 6 and you got it right…. for 37 minutes.

        • Parker

          Hoss peaked too soon.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I think Straith Put it well asking what the definition of insanity is. We can all sit and blame the players, and fairly at times – never seen anyone give up like Hodge did on Retallick when he just slowed to a jog and watched him run in, but it just seems the whole setup isn’t working.
          I agree with BLL in that the ABs mistakes made them look better in the first half than what they were. No innovation in attack, defence that left big holes and a real lack of leadership.

        • Sevenwithasixonmyback

          What I enjoyed most was the lead-up perpetuated by the media and commentators.
          “WE REALLY CAN BEAT THEM”.
          What crap.
          The Wallabies game plan and selection process has not altered one spit to aim up against the ABs. And the ABs game plan and selection process remains consistently complex and respectfully judicious – and with such great depth – that they remain a threat with little preparation or any tactical shift. Their belief in that bloody black jersey and their pride in wearing it outweighs our entire establishment.
          And their leaders are leaders and their positional players are playing in their positional positions.
          Wallabies play mix match left hand in stuff in some attempt to bamboozle these great opponents and we end up bamboozling ourselves and the fans.
          66k at Homebush last night.
          Lucky to get 55k there next time.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Love your name, that was me in my later years

        • RobC

          It’s not that complex

    • first time long time

      Maybe that’s why I didn’t enjoy it Hoss…. I was expecting a thriller but got a spoof instead!

    • idiot savant

      When will the circus leave town?

      • Hoss

        Maybe not in my lifetime. Maybe I am like my forbearers who had to wait 125 years for the America’s Cup to be won…………

      • Brisneyland Local

        WHen the Ass Clown that is the coach leaves!

    • Archie

      Sounds highly entertaining!! Already got my tickets to the big top at Eden Park.

      • Hoss

        Whilst i must admit i believe Lord Bledisloe will reside in the Shaky Isles for another year i truly hope the Wallabies put on a respectable display, Dunedin-style for your hard earned $$$ this week. Its just a shame it seems to take the gold boys an annual drubbing before they show some fight, cohesion and belief and challenge your mob.

        • Archie

          Good luck Hoss. I hope for that too… that Dunedin match was INCREDIBLE theatre. Loved it (particularly the last couple of minutes:)

        • Hoss

          Enjoy mate – look forward to your update after. Go the gold.

    • Bernie Chan

      Serious question…was Ainslie the only option left for THP? Honestly, I’d never heard of him till his name was read out as Tupou’s replacement. Are our Wallas so poorly managed that we don’t have a plan to cover such circumstances…? Cheika/Larkham/Grey…all three have had their jobs for a while, so what are their KPIs? We have not improved…our attack is poor (Beale tried hard, but he is the #12 not the flyhalf…) and poorly guided, exit strategy dysfunctional (Hodge makes a 50m clearance…then we revert to Foley? Hodge converts a 40m penalty, but Foley takes the ship kick…use Hodge for everything…!) and our defence ramshackle. Even our set piece turned to custard…Alas we seem stuck on this course, with Cheika seemingly given carte blanch by RA.

      • GO THE Q REDS

        And I’m sure you noticed where it usually breaks down. ….Foley. And by break down I don’t just mean knock ons, forward passes or bad choices like chip kicks. .. I mean when a quick line-out or dominant scrum gives you that minute advantage…… and then it gets to Foley and the play dies…..

        • Bernie Chan

          Schools flyhalfs kick way better than our un-opposed Test flyhalf and pass better (watched the TSS v BBC game…two flyhalfs already signed to Super Rugby contracts. The Nudgee flyhalf is also a ‘gun’…) so I wonder what happened with the development pathways a few years ago such that we reached this situation? What ever happened to the concept of “play what’s in front of you…”…turnover ball should be (and is for the ABs…) the best attacking platform as the defence is not set. Our Wallas kick turnover ball away time and time again….

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Well those guys from the last few years are in the system…. One “apparently” replaced QUADE at the Reds, then got hardly any game time to develope (without any mentors aswell)
          Another is Jack Maddocks, who was pushed into the back line at the Rebels but still as you know is now a successful debutant Wallaby……and another WAS at the Reds also but fell out of favour with average form. One can only hope Cheika pushes the Rebels to run Maddocks at 10 so we can finally have a quality option at 10.

        • Bernie Chan

          Don’t mention the intrigue at the Reds…will send us into conniptions! But seriously…Ballymore is such in such a SNAFU. Man management sadly lacking…

  • Barry Power

    Some thoughts:

    1. If Hooper is to be retained as captain, he needs to be tutored in people/conflict management skills. At times again last night, he looked like a salty schoolboy. Head back, looking down his nose, backing away after he dropped in a comment – it just gave the impression of a sulk with the ref – who was admittedly poor but needed to be managed. Contrast that with the likes of read/Johnson/O’Connell as captains – stand beside the ref, ask him a question, listen the whole way through the answer, ask for the ref to keep an eye on it in future, thank the ref, initiate gentle contact to show there are no hard feelings, then leave. One approach is whining about wanting a decision changed, the other is respectfully disagreeing and asking for future consideration.

    2. I thought this in the June series and was disappointed that we didn’t take advantage of you then, but when a team consistently tries to rush their own lineout by throwing as soon as they’re set, it telegraphs who is getting the ball – ie the first person to make a move. This allowed the ABs to attack in the lineout without worrying about dummy jumpers. When you slowed down the lineout process and used dummies, you looked safer. Plus, psychologically, using the rushed approach tells your players in no uncertain terms that they are not good enough to win lineouts head to head – therefore it immediately encourages panic mode when it doesn’t work. (Also, if having Pocock and Hooper both on the field limits your options, why not consistently go to 5-man to limit the opponent’s defensive options and denude them of that advantage?)

    3. The press defence was initially good, especially given the tackle completiobs in midfield. But every defence has its strengths and weaknesses. In the second half, the ABs clearly altered their approach and went deeper to go wide once the Wallabies were outnumbered (either off turnovers or through phases). The worry is that the Wallabies didn’t (couldn’t?) react to this. It reminded me of watching Ireland in the 6N where we were so vulnerable in the wide channels in the same situation. We tightened somewhat for the June series – the question is whether Cheika and co. can coach a team to defend reactively to what they see.

    4. When even the commentators are asking it, why of why is Foley clearance kicking over the siege-gun that Hodge possesses? And why, under pressure on your own line, is the balling being passed deep into the in-goal to be cleared 15 metres with the charge down risk that entails? Genia should be getting 20 metres at least from a box kick – so you gain 5 metres on the kick and 10 by not passing it back. Is there any thought/practice of exit strategy? England recognised this issue 2 years ago and won a series by just kicking in the corners knowing you couldn’t exit.

    5. The coach sets the tone. If you are asking why the players are sniping at each other and the ref, and why it loks like players are throwing their hands up and quitting, just look to the box.

    • Fatflanker

      Very fair points.

    • idiot savant

      Great comments Barry. What are you doing for the rest of the Rugby Championship? We need you down here!

      • Barry Power

        Living in Melbourne, so watching the carnage from a relatively safe distance!

        • onlinesideline

          Theres no safe place when you are a Wallaby supporter.

    • Sevenwithasixonmyback

      Always interesting to watch the ref interaction when Pocock steps up to have a say.
      He is astute and concise. Gets his point across respectfully and always receives full attention from whistle-man. Great in post-match interviews, too.
      A great communicator playing second-fiddle to an amateurish one.
      A great 7 playing 8 (6) to allow a second-rate 7 to continue to run around as captain.
      The Pooper thing must end.

      • 22DropOut

        I don’t think that Pocock shows those characteristics at all and he is poor with the refs. He is a great man with a great social conscience but this doesn’t translate into being a great captain.

        • Sevenwithasixonmyback

          Fair call. I see his comms differently. And I think the refs might, too. Aura?
          And I must add that it’s not really his place to have any say during play – that duty falls to another.
          And his social conscience has never entered my mind. Don’t care much.
          I didn’t say he was a great captain, though. I was simply juxtaposing his manner of play with that of the guy wearing his rightful number 7 on his back.
          Put an 8 on Hoops’ back and have him play a specialist scrum base and breakdown role, and let the natural 7 play his natural game. He can stay captain if that’s his destiny. He might get better at it from the back of the pack being able to lift his head and observe proceedings.
          Tolu Latu in 6. Loves a run. Great at the pilfer. Crap lineout throws. Needs to be in the team but maybe not in 2.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          OK I’m fully of the belief you couldn’t read a wooden duck if you think Pococks displays don’t show his innate skill at talking to refs at the correct time and even tone. He is very switched on psychologically.

        • 22DropOut

          If it was as simple as talking to a ref when spoken to in the correct tone then 99.99% of rugby captains would be great. There’s more to it than that. Referees are games by the best captains. Referees handle Pocock easily because he’s a very polite young idealist.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          “a polite young idealist” ….Righteoo

    • Andrew Luscombe

      Best set of comments on here. Thanks for posting.

    • John Tynan

      Mate, drop by any time!

  • Greg

    Rumour doing the rounds that Hooper has been benched and will come on at 50 next week. Pocock to captain.

    • first time long time

      Stop teasing Greg

      • Greg

        :-)

        • onlinesideline

          I heard another rumour. Foley is going to be benched and Toomua will start at 10, Beale at 12 and Banks at 15.

        • Woodsman

          That rumour gives me a raging rugby erection. Sadly, when proven false my excitement will wilt to the consistency of cooked spinach.

        • onlinesideline

          Good to see you are living up to your namesake but lets move on shall we……..

  • RedAnt

    Sorry, the team selected was never going to win. There was a chance to build on the performances and learning from the Ireland series, but instead we replace a bunch of players who performed well and leave in a bunch who didn’t.

    I love TPN but his line out throwing has always been suspect, he’s been out of the country, he’s been out of the international team, we have a couple of strong young hookers who performed against Ireland, but yeah, let’s start him. Robertson has shown a lot of improvement but isn’t a great scrummager, but yeah, let’s start him. Kepu hasn’t played well for Australia for a long time, and is beginning to struggle for the Tahs. Start him. Neither Coleman nor Rodda call line outs. Start ‘em both. Hooper hasn’t had a game for two months. Let’s not just start him, let’s unbalance the back row at the same time. Thank Christ it’s impossible not to pick Poey.

    Then the backs. DHP has been pretty ordinary since coming back from injury. Hodge is solid but lacks pace. We have excellent speedy options in Banks and Maddocks, but nah, let’s start DHP. Korobeite really shouldn’t be learning his position against the ABs, but sure, let’s start him. Foley can’t control a game with his kicking, but hey, let’s not make a plan to take the pressure off him.

    I love Toomua and personally think he should have been the Wallabies 10 since the last world cup (if not before), but should he be rushed back into the team for the first test against the ABs? He’s been playing 12. Will he displace Beale? Seems unlikely. So what’s the plan? Utility?

    Absolutely shite selecting, shite planning.

    • idiot savant

      Agree about TPN. He was clearly short of a gallop. Both Coleman and Rodda call line outs. Its the new system thats not working as Barry points out. They decide who its going to and then walk straight in and throw. This needs perfect timing which they clearly didnt have with TPN being new to it. Its also far more obvious to the opposition who’s getting it. The front row problems have not been helped by injury to be fair. With Sio, Tupou, and Kepu having injury problems and Slipper in the dog house, experience is getting thin on the ground. DHP was all class against the Irish but he was definitely short of a run last night.

      • RedAnt

        Yeah that’s generally all fair, but it’s still dubious selections and failing to plan for injuries / opposition game plans / weather etc that seem to be recurring issues. Robertson was first choice. Kepu was first choice and played. Did Tupou hold up the Qld scrum on his own? Did Chieka think Hansen wouldn’t have watched the line outs against Ireland? With only two proper jumpers in our team it doesn’t take a genius to counter the quick line out tactic. Disagree re: DHP. Banks has been a better option all year.

  • Duvstar

    Hate to start of with a swear word, but fucking bang average. How many times do you get to play an below-par Kiwi team for 50 minutes and utterly screw it up for yourselves.

    Ratings:
    Robertson – 3. Regardless of the dark arts your opposite number in the scrum is getting up to, he wasn’t strong enough or clever enough tonight. Sio is a huge loss, and we need him back asap.
    P-Nau – 4. Only because he was decent in the loose (although can’t remember exactly how long he was on for). A nice half break, a few good tackles that stripped the ball. Just couldn’t fucking throw! Has to take a big chunk of blame for that lineup.
    Kepu – 4. Warrior effort, but got caught in the backline a few times by fleeter-footed players and part of a backwards scrum.
    Coleman – 5. Good physicality, put in some jarring hits even as late as the 70th minute when he was out on his feet. Although again, lineout terrible.
    Rodda – 5. Decent in defence and was actually quite disruptive to the AB lineout. Definitely a man who should be hanging around the team. Just please sort out our own lineout.
    Hooper – 2. Thought he was bang average today. Dropped a few easy-ish balls, didn’t pilfer, completely wrecked our defensive line by charging up. Especially later in the game, exposing the slower, exhausted forwards to the AB backs. He just doesn’t have the rugby smarts at this level to captain unfortunately.
    Tui – 2. Shocker. Carried the ball into contact way too high and got smashed for it. Nothing in the lineout, missed tackles. A real eye-opener that despite his size, he has gotta become a better footballer.
    Pocock – 7. Everywhere at the breakdown, a good few turnovers, also surprisingly good in the loose with a great break. Also seemed to be the main main conversing with the ref. Should be captain.
    Genia – 6. Good effort from Sanchez. Should be VC – was a leader out there today. Tackled well, good breakdown pressure. Just wish he didn’t have to pass to Foley.
    Foley – 2. Another shocker. Tackled well but this is our 10 we’re talking about. He just doesn’t lead the team, doesn’t create enough, and I swear I could have my 6 year-old cousin kicking longer than him within a few weeks. Those pop-attempts from without our in-goal just don’t relieve any pressure. Needs to go, but we all know he won’t
    Beale – 7. Real heart out there today for a full 80. Ran hard, distributed the ball, tackled his heart out. May well be semi-covering 15 for the rest of the RC is Folau’s ankle injury is bad.
    Hodge – 7. Mortlock-esque out there. Big hits in the midfield and ran hard whenever he had it. Playing 13 seems to negate his lack of passing ability which is a good thing. ALso why is he not taking the clearing kicks?! Took one and got us well up-field.
    Koroibete – 3. Outshone completely by Naholo. Beaten in contact, very one-dimensional. The ABs know he’s not going to kick so makes it very easy to put the ball over his head and defend in a line.
    Folau – 4. Seemed pretty invisible for a lot of the game. His aerial ability wasn’t used at all and was well snaffled in attack. Got unlucky with a forward pass that was flat.
    Haylett-Petty – 4.All I can really remember of him is dropping a midfield clanger. Not his best night, although we know what he can do.

    Peyper – 1. Terrible performance. Missed everything. How is he not going upstairs for the tip tackle?! Seriously, absolutely no consistency. Then missed a load of really obvious calls. Should be called up and given a ticking off.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Duvstar, excellent player scores. Cant disagree with anything there. Believe it or not I would give Peyper a 3. He was shit, but consistently shit.

  • Barry Power

    Some thoughts regarding defence:

    1. For the first try, why was Hooper joining Genia in the Naholo tackle? I can see the argument that Naholo is a tackle-buster supreme, but surely in that situation, you have to trust the touchline as the second defender and hang inside as the cover for the offload. That’s a scramble defence system breakdown.

    If you do join, you need to be sure you take the ball, league-style, to prevent the offload. That didn’t happen here – that’s an execution breakdown.

    Why isn’t Folau putting Read on his ass at the tail-end of that try? Yes, it was almost certainly going to be a try anyway, but from u-6 back home, we teach that you take out the passer to ensure they don’t become a support runner later in the play, regardless of situation.

    Watching the second angle of that play, what is Tom Robertson doing once the initial break is made? Does he think that the Kiwis won’t execute a series of two v ones and that he can casually jog back into position for the next phase?

    2. For Goodhue’s try, Kepu and Foley play perfect outmanned drift defence, keeping their hips out and sliding backwards to kill the overlap. On the outside, Hooper turns his hips inwards as if he plans to man-and-ball ALB, but doesn’t actually shoot. He ends up with his back to ball and Ioane. That’s a complete scramble system breakdown and looks like a lack of trust in his inside defender, Foley, in the same way he showed a lack of trust in his outside defender, Genia, earlier.

    Again, Folau doesn’t take out Ioane, though it is more defensible as he may have been pinged for a late hit – I would still expect him to grab Ioane. I know that Folau makes contact in both of these situations and I know he wasn’t stopping a try either way. But the result isn’t what should be analysed – it’s the process. And in future, when Folau doesn’t follow through on these tackles and the man who offloads backs up to score, you will have to look back on these instances. (By the way, contrast Ioane’s early pass here with the risk Foley took in taking the ball into contact prior to Maddock’s try.)

    See in backplay again that a number of Wallabies are jogging after the initial break; it shouldn’t matter that they are convinced a try is going to be scored – poor passes can always slow down the break.

    3. Poor old Foley is put in an impossible situation here because Genia doesn’t even bother chasing Retallick once Barrett passes. The question of whether he would have caught Retallick is a close enough call to make that fact that he didn’t try indefensible.

    4. What is Phipps doing for the final try? At first he is in the line and then he just drops out and leaves a hole. Does he not trust Maddocks (who I think is the wing here) to make the tackle? Has he been instructed to always fall into that gap? If so, why doesn’t Samu(?) fall into that gap more quickly? Seems like another system breakdown.

    While it took immense skill for the ABs to convert some of these opportunities, the fact that most are brought about by system failure and compounded by effort issues does not speak highly to the coaching of these players. You would hope that the review would be a pretty miserable process for them – otherwise, you will simply see this happening again every time they are under pressure.

    • idiot savant

      Great observations. You need to get to Auckland. Tonight if possible. Australia needs you Barry!

    • Brisneyland Local

      BP, very impressive write up. Mate to be honest, I cant watch that game again. Just tooooooo demoralising.

      • Missing Link

        I find watching the first half twice is much easier

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yeah I thought that too. till I watched the game for the second time. Initially I thought we were doing well. In watching in slow time the second time, I realised it was more the Kiwi’s had a really bad first half. It made us look good. Then they woke up.

      • Barry Power

        I hear that. Especially when you see how much it was your own downfall. That’s simply not how you defended against us in June. When you were under pressure then, you kept your head. The psychological issue of playing the ABs can’t be underestimated, but it’s something you wonder if the coaching staff is considering it.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Our coaching staff couldn’t organise a piss up in the Guinness factory.

        • Barry Power

          Dunno about that mate – Cheika looks pretty pissed every time the camera flips to him.

        • Brisneyland Local

          That is his lack of personal dicipline, not how much of the good stuff he has imbibed!

  • Simon

    Why is Hooper getting a start and pushing Pocock to 8? We must be insane. Not having a fourth jumper probably didn’t help our line out. What next – Usain Bolt at fullback. This idea that you can play players out of position or not physically suited needs to be sacked. It’s been a bad experiment for long enough.

    • Sevenwithasixonmyback

      Why is Pocock wearing the 8 jersey and always playing at 6?
      An 8 is an 8 and a 6 is a 6.
      And Pocock is a 7. Best in the game. Playing 6 dressed in 8.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Thats the only way Hooper fits into the Squad. It is sad when your captain isnt even the best in his position. Totally unbalanced.

      • Brumby Runner

        I reckon Poey is playing 7 with 8 on his back, challenging the rucks looking for turnover ball, while Hooper is trying to play 8 with 7 on his back, playing wide and making tackles in the backline and looking for chances to make a wide break. That how it seems to me anyway.

  • BF

    It probably doesn’t come across on TV, but the amount of time hooper spends on the wing doing nothing is beyond a joke. D

    Please tell me his ridiculous contract has a cooling off period

    • Simon

      I think we have reached the point where the questions will start to be asked about whether the coach has the CEO’s backing etc etc.

      We’ve seen it all before, they all say yes and the hey presto the guard changes. There is something peculiar about the Cheika/Hooper thingy. Judging by this blog and how long people have been questioning it, no-one from the ARU takes this site seriously.

      Here’s hoping the next coach makes some sensible changes. The current direction is nothing short of bizarre.

      I liked Cheika at first, mongrel. But at present we having nothing to show for it. It’s all extreme close ups in the ads leading up to the game, promos and glamour don’t win games. Whinging and apologies afterwards.

      Bring on the blood letting I say.

      • Brisneyland Local

        MAte the RA dont take anything any fan sites say seriously! They dont give a shit about fans. that has been obvious for almost a decade.

        • Simon

          Geez, what a crime, to listen to the collective rugby wisdom of the public.

          Crowd sourced selections would do a lot better than the current team. Go on ARU, I dare you.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Mate that would actually be a good idea.
          Then we need to work on the game plan.

        • Simon

          Game plan – good point. I haven’t thought that through. I’m open to ideas.

          Providing Cheika with a crowd sourced team and then expecting that he would be able to work it out from there is perhaps leaving too much to chance.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Definitely. I am very much of the Nutta and Hoss view for game plans. Meat first, then the gravy.

        • BF

          For a start, how about we earn the right to go wide AFTER we go forward.
          20m passes to get it to the wing as fast as possible stops being effective in the u10’s.
          And stop the excessive use of the “out the back” option.

        • Simon

          Yep. Why don’t we play like them. Seems to be effective. We give it to the backs thinking it is going to bust them open and win us the game. Why not play through the forwards, stay patient, hold the ball, and let fatigue do its thing. Then, once we have a bit of roomy woomy, perhaps give it to the backs.

          I still think with two principal changes we can improve significantly – Cheika gone, Hooper gone. Change Foley if you like, he’s so punch drunk from having to defend too much because Pocock is not in his correct position.

          England won a World Cup through boring forward focused rugby and a bloke that can kick. Get some tough forwards. Tough forwards come from country areas. Where do we think NZ gets them from.

        • Keith Butler

          “Out the back” “round the corner” “up yer jacksy” what’s next?

        • Brisneyland Local

          Concur. You do have to earn it.
          I am just blown away by how quickly they go from Defence to attack once they pilfer. It is amazing to watch.

  • RugbyM

    Gees we were terrible. Another year, another chance gone. Sure we could possibly actually maybe string a pass together next week, or win a lineout, but it is at the (Southern Hemisphere) home of rugby… so our chances just went back down

    I’m interested in others opinion, who, other than Quade, would you consider in contention to challenge the status quo for the #10 jersey?

    • onlinesideline

      Toomua
      Simple as
      Build a team around him at 10 and we will be a completely different team.

      • Brumby Runner

        I agree that Toomua needs to replace Foley but not necessarily play at 10. His best form for the Wallabies was at 12 outside Cooper. Beale plays somewhat similar to Cooper (unstructured, off the cuff attack) so a combination of Beale and Toomua is probably the best option available, swapping positions as necessary to adapt to the game.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Right now the absolute uncontested best setup for the wallabies should be Quade Cooper at 10 with any one of Tomua or Beale outside. Depends who were playing but for the ABs I’d go Tomua for the defence benefit.

      • John Tynan

        Even when Beale steps in for the 20 minutes that Foley goes missing, the tempo goes up, the play is a bit more adventurous, and the ad line gets crossed seemingly easier. I don’t think KB should be stuck in at 10 as I prefer him with more space, but I don’t think Toomua should be either, and should probably rightly should be 12. SO I would end up with KB-MT for the team outcome.
        Press already seems to be saying that KB will be at fullback on the weekend though, which is where I would have Banks (aka Latho). I would have blooded Banks over Maddocks on the weekend, just as a btw.

  • Kev Brown

    Just watched the post match

    Can someone please ask cheika

    So mike same same game plan and same result and it sounds as if the players are not taking in the message and playing you’re brand
    How much longer will you persist before adaptation or coaching to the strengths

    • Brisneyland Local

      He doesnt have an answer. He can not adapt.

      • Kev Brown

        And there in is our answer and solution
        The sum of our strength is also our greatest weakness

        Time to go mr VW

        • Brisneyland Local

          Mr VW?

  • Missing Link

    Almost can’t articulate how angry I am. Another year, another Bledisloe in the bin after talking the talk all week. “Groundhog Day”
    Peyper is a toss pot but in the interests of avoiding responses like “don’t blame the ref” I will also say it under the condition that we were totally shit and even if Peyper didn’t give NZ some favourable decisions, we still would have lost.
    The dismantling of our lineout was the single factor in us losing how we did. we got away with it in the first half, but not in the second. Can’t win games of rugby without the ball and giving the opposition extra possession through silly mistakes is just asking for it. Second, our scrum. I know for a fact there were front row hijinks, and Peyper fell into the trap, but we were shit in that aspect and it was also a factor. A wise man has said many times “meat and potatos first, then gravy”.
    In saying that, we held on in the first half playing some sort of conservative rugby, then what happened and what happens every time is NZ score a try and the Wallabies panic. They start playing Waratah style helter skelter rugby thinking they can run NZ off their feet, what really happens is someone stuffs up and NZ gain possession, barret does 15 soccer kicks which all bounce in his favour or a left foot kick which bounces up for Naholo who’s offside but out of every camera shot so we’ll award the try because All Blacks. All of NZ’s tries came off counter attack, they gained possession through a stuffed up kick, a knock on etc. immediately identified a weak point in our defence and executed it. that is something we can’t do. The wallabies were better off not changing their game plan and playing a dour form of holding onto possession, playing tight, taking penalties when on offer etc. kind of like what ireland did to us in June. Why Cheika doesn’t see this, I don’t know – you cannot beat the All Blacks playing Super Rugby.

    There are 6 certainties in life, Hooper at 7, Foley at 10, Beale at 12, Folau at 15, Phipps somewhere in the 23, and losing to the All Blacks.
    Robertson was shit, same as Foley, Hooper was underdone and should have returned from the bench/managed back into match fitness.

    OK so roll on next week “series isn’t over, we are still in it” says the idiot wallaby fan in my head. We need a few changes:
    1. Anyone but Robertson 2. Anyone who can throw a lineout properly 3. Kepu 4. Coleman 5. Rodda (spoiled a few NZ lineouts) 6. Samu 7. Pocock (C) 8. Tui (must remove errors from his game and play hard) 9. Genia 10. Toomua (can’t be worse than Foley) 11. Koroibete (last chance) 12. Beale 13. Hodge 14. Maddocks (DHP was shit) 15. Banks. Hooper to the bench to replace Samu.

    I owe KRL a smirnoff double black!

    • John Tynan

      “… you cannot beat the All Blacks playing Super Rugby….” That was the gist of our conversation during the game. Coaching seems to be stuck at a Super Rugby game, not a test match.

    • onlinesideline

      agree with that team. Leave Kurtley with some space and put MT at 10 – cant be worse like you say. Tui is on watch.
      We desparately need a honey badger or Mortlock to straighten up and run hard face first.

    • Happyman

      I vote ML for Wallabies coach.

  • Gareth

    We were awful in the 2nd half, so many mistakes and so many errors The game plan was working but the 2nd half errors led to 4 turnover tries. DHP, Hooper & Robertson were very average. Hooper was hampered by his hammy and samu was awful when he came on.

    • BF

      bit harsh on Samu – he was only on the field for 5 minutes
      hooper was awful for 75 minutes, and he’s been awful many, many times before!

      • Gareth

        two big errors in a 5 minute contribution. not great from Samu.

  • GO THE Q REDS

    Totally not surprised with scoreline and the way it played out. Cheika needs to take responsibility for CONSTANTLY picking Chronic underperformers Bernard Foley and Robinson.
    Everything else I saw in this game, or heard mention of, can either be explained away or were an enigma of sorts. I’m soooo sick and tired of the wallabies “making do” with such an average player running the Wallabies attack. Relying on the actual Talents in the team of Beale, Folou and Maddox for eg is just not good enough to be the best consistently. Oh well. . ..

  • RobC

    Most pointers already covered. The only thing i wanted to add is that I’m not surprised about the result and how it unraveled

    We are all trapped in these perpetual bad decisions So might as well enjoy what rays of sunshine we get.

  • Nicholas Peacock-Smith

    I’ve given this 48 hours to gather my thoughts on where it all went wrong and what we need. Sadly its not a simple matter of a selection change here or there, its a systematic problem within the wallabies and also within Australian rugby. We simply don’t have the depth and thats the bottom line. We can’t fix that over night so here is a few other thoughts.

    1. #10
    I’m so sick of the Foley bashing and that Cooper is the answer, what a load of crap. Foley didn’t play well on Saturday but would any #10 have been able to behind that pack? Switch Barrett to the wallabies for that game and i’m not sure he would have solved the problem.
    Foley can be one-dimensional and too lateral but he makes Beale better by being at 10, i’m not saying he is the answer but Quade’s time is done. I’d prefer to see a young rookie given a start to grow in the #10 jersey and given the jersey full-time. Might not help for 2019 world cup but with right coaching and growth by 2023 could be world class. That’s how the rest of the top teams do it, why don’t we do the same? Cheika has done it with other young guns but now he needs to do it with #9 & #10 while they can learn from the experience of Genia & Foley.

    2. Lineout
    Where is Rory Arnold and why isn’t he being picked? 18months ago he and Coleman produced joint blinders in a game against Wales that took all of us back to the heyday of Eales & Giffin, or what we see from the All Blacks 2nd row every game.
    Roda is a solid bench player but Arnold is a giant and thats what we need to jump in the lineout. It’s hard for any hooker to throw to jumpers that are shorter than the opposition,
    Arnold & Coleman also give the scrum more of a jolt from the 2nd row.

    3. Depth
    Hooper for the first time in years looked under done, he shouldn’t have been rushed back, or should have come off the bench. I remember in the late 90’s or early 2000’s when Eales, Larkham, Burke etc would all play club rugby for 1-2 weeks to get match fitness up before being picked the wallabies, especically to play the AB’s.
    We just don’t have the depth or haven’t nurtured the depth to be able to do this.

    Pocock should have played 7 and captained. Samu or Tui at 8 or again.. pick a young gun and give them a shot.

    4. Media blows up their chances.. Fox sports & print media please give it a rest.

    Let’s hope the Wallabies get inspired across the ditch like last year & maybe Foley has his kicking boots packed this year.

    • Geoffro

      Agree with what you say but think Cheik’s calculated gamble on Hooper was probably a valid call. Erasmus did the same with Etzebeth who had been on the sideline longer than Hooper and he turned in a blinder against the Pumas.

      • Nicholas Peacock-Smith

        Fair point but making a comeback against the Puma’s is a different game than against the all blacks. Also in such a crucial position for us as #7.
        All the defense in 1st half didn’t help Hoops but that’s the first game he ever looked out of gas and missing some match fitness

        • Geoffro

          You’re probably right,nearly all the Wallaby forwards looked pretty knackered after the defensive effort in the first 30 odd minutes.He probably should have admitted it himself and had a quiet word with Cheika at half time but at that stage we were on top and I suppose he didn’t think he would be in for such a torrid time in the next 40 (though most everyone knows the ABs’ ability to step it up further into the game).Cheika should have called it and replaced him at the break so blame probably sits with him.

    • GO THE Q REDS

      Your just plain wrong about Foley. His statistics are terrible, his contributions as a “playmaker” are far in between…… and as for Quade, well who told YOU his day was done? The last time he played he was in great form. He was pushed out of the wallabies without even showing his form, which at Super lvl was once again back to Foley embarasing quality now he was injury free again. And Quades name only comes up from most of us because for years Cheika has had a revolving door of developing players in all positions EXCEPT 10. And we’ve need options at 10 badly as Foley is a very stale average 10. There has been zero development or squad involvement, training runs or anything for years.

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@Only1Sully

Just another Rugby tragic. Shane "Sully" Sullivan has been in man love with the game since high school in the 70's. He inflicts his passion on family and anyone who will listen. He can't guarantee unbiased opinion but he can tell you the Reds are Awesome! To read non-rugby content head to http://www.onesully.com.au

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