Where to for Super Rugby?

[wamberal]

That's because those in the Tent are all still enjoying a nice cruise along the river, yes the ship is sinking, but the whole set up here means those at the top of the ladder are still enjoying canopies and champagne.
And nothing is ever going to change.

Okay, I am willing to sign a petition. What are your preferred changes?

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Valid point but again as far as a Super Rugby membership goes. 6 home games is not enough. I want more Tahs games if I’m going to pay for a membership not less.

You could throw in the NRC games in the membership, plus a couple of SUPER derbies of club footy @ North Sydney or the new parra stadium....preferential tickets for the tests etc. Plus you can keep the cost of the membership down. There is value in scarcity. You only get to see NSW play 4 or so times a year, you actually get excited about it.

It would have to be really meaningful for it to draw in the necessary funding in order to support the professional franchises. Which I suspect it won't. Club footy is great and all but they don't rate and therefore add little to any real value. We need to look to suit ourselves and that means exploring more opportunities to play meaningful games against meaningful opposition.

As I said in the other thread, I think rugby has to accept that the piece of the pie is limited. We are not living within our means in terms of the professional game. We cannot sustain 4 teams of full time professionals. The sooner this is realised the better. There is not an ever expanding pot of gold. Rugby will never be as popular as league or soccer or aussie rules. Yes we want the game to grow but there are natural limits. I'd rather the unions concentrate on getting kids playing and keep playing as adults. i.e the larger amateur game is far, far more important.

Some peeps are willing to sell the game for some perceived benefit of having footy on the telly or more professionals, to cede control in order to make rugby more watchable etc. Well I certainly don't want to go down the road of league changing the rules to cater to marginal fans with no clue. Look at league, the very simple basic rules of battle for possession are long gone and for me to the detriment of the game. scrums = joke, the 10m rule replacing the old 5m rule, cannot rake the ball at the play the ball, hell they don't even enforce the play the ball properly etc. Some will say it's a more exciting game now. I most certainly don't.

We've seen this in rugby, scrums are not fed properly, no rucking, new comps with new rules supposedly "better". Well it's not better and it's not rugby. Don't get me started on the ridiculous bans for punching etc as it's not "a good look on the TV".

Anyway back on topic I wold prefer NOT to chase marginal dollars by changing the game/selling our souls. There is a natural market that has potential to grow within boundaries, let's concentrate on getting the basics right, get the rugby nuts like me back into the game. Marginal fans come later & should be treated as a bonus and not catered to, to the detriment of the actual fans.

/old man rant at sky

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You could throw in the NRC games in the membership, plus a couple of SUPER derbies of club footy @ North Sydney or the new parra stadium..preferential tickets for the tests etc. Plus you can keep the cost of the membership down. There is value in scarcity. You only get to see NSW play 4 or so times a year, you actually get excited about it.




As I said in the other thread, I think rugby has to accept that the piece of the pie is limited. We are not living within our means in terms of the professional game. We cannot sustain 4 teams of full time professionals. The sooner this is realised the better. There is not an ever expanding pot of gold. Rugby will never be as popular as league or soccer or aussie rules. Yes we want the game to grow but there are natural limits. I'd rather the unions concentrate on getting kids playing and keep playing as adults. i.e the larger amateur game is far, far more important.

Some peeps are willing to sell the game for some perceived benefit of having footy on the telly or more professionals, to cede control in order to make rugby more watchable etc. Well I certainly don't want to go down the road of league changing the rules to cater to marginal fans with no clue. Look at league, the very simple basic rules of battle for possession are long gone and for me to the detriment of the game. scrums = joke, the 10m rule replacing the old 5m rule, cannot rake the ball at the play the ball, hell they don't even enforce the play the ball properly etc. Some will say it's a more exciting game now. I most certainly don't.

We've seen this in rugby, scrums are not fed properly, no rucking, new comps with new rules supposedly "better". Well it's not better and it's not rugby. Don't get me started on the ridiculous bans for punching etc as it's not "a good look on the TV".

Anyway back on topic I wold prefer NOT to chase marginal dollars by changing the game/selling our souls. There is a natural market that has potential to grow within boundaries, let's concentrate on getting the basics right, get the rugby nuts like me back into the game. Marginal fans come later & should be treated as a bonus and not catered to, to the detriment of the actual fans.

/old man rant at sky

A couple of things. There's rumblings that the NRC is likely about to be ditched. So that could soon be off the table and as for the SUPER club derbies. Despite what the likes of Jones, Growden etc. may want you to believe there are not 10s of thousands of people showing up to this games on a weekly basis. Nowhere near it. So it's hardly an attractive proposition for many.

As for the number of professional teams. While I can certainly form an argument that we'd be better off with just the 3 I really cannot see it becoming an realistic option. Not now nor in the future and not that I actually want to see it. For many reasons we cannot afford to shrink any further. But I do agree with you to a certain extent.

I believe we are looking at the wrong level in terms of our attempts to develop the game and that the clubs form a vital cog in this particular wheel. I get to watch a little bit of the URBA competition in Argentina from time to time and they offer a template of what we should be looking toward in Australia for our club competitions. I would fully support each club being provided an annual allotment in order to build it's base in one of two ways. Either 1) look to develop 12 'feeder' clubs within each of their districts that field multiple teams (at least 2 boys and 1 girls team each grade) in each age grade from U6s through to U18s and then develop women's equivalents to the their respective senior sides or 2) Look to develop lets call them 'super' district clubs where they run 12 boys and at least 6 girls teams in each grade U6s through U18s and once again at least a womens grade for each men's from Colts up.

This could be done across the current 5 major club competitions (Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth) and several of the larger regional bases (Newcastle, Wollongong/Illawarra, Gold Coast, Townsville and even Adelaide.) Part of the deal would be on top of funding (let's say $50k each to start) that with the exception of insurance all other monies derived from fee's belongs to the clubs. This would provide the clubs incentives to reach these goals as the more players they draw the higher their take of registration fee's would be. It would also serve the clubs as if done right they would also be building their own supporter bases as well as the supporter bases for the likes of the Reds and Tahs etc. This would arrangement would also stretch to certain targeted regions within cities like Sydney and Brisbane but with a focus first on juniors before senior grades.

 

[Rebels3]

Serious question here. Can anyone point to a single case of scarcity of product been a successful case in sport?????

Selling out the product for tv is completely the wrong thinking, it’s like anything in the professional world you develop your product for the market needs. While doing this you shouldn’t forget the fundamentals of the product but you also cannot sit still.

The professional clubs are absolutely key to the Australian landscape. The amateur clubs would be significantly worse off without their presence, just like the professional clubs would be significantly worse off without the grassroots below them. We need to create idols/players kids want to be like on the field, one of the biggest issues currently is if you go to a local club most of the kids favorite players are Kalyn Ponga, Cameron Smith and Latrell Mitchell, they are there generally because they parents support rugby, but the kids themselves are League fans and have no interest in been a rugby fan, since league has become more visual we have become smaller. Every year hundreds of kids drop out of our clubs to go and play league they want to be the people they see on tv. There is no greater marketing tool for amateur clubs to get people playing the game than kids been exposed to it on television. You can hold all the clinics you want or have all the facilities in the world but if there is nobody that wants to use them it’s pointless.

Both parties need to realize they do not exist without each other, the stronger and more recognizable the professional brands are the more kids turn up to preseason. The more facilities the amateur clubs have the more quality is fed to the pro clubs.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Serious question here. Can anyone point to a single case of scarcity of product been a successful case in sport?????

Selling out the product for tv is completely the wrong thinking, it’s like anything in the professional world you develop your product for the market needs. While doing this you shouldn’t forget the fundamentals of the product but you also cannot sit still.

The professional clubs are absolutely key to the Australian landscape. The amateur clubs would be significantly worse off without their presence, just like the professional clubs would be significantly worse off without the grassroots below them. We need to create idols/players kids want to be like on the field, one of the biggest issues currently is if you go to a local club most of the kids favorite players are Kalyn Ponga, Cameron Smith and Latrell Mitchell, they are there generally because they parents support rugby, but the kids themselves are League fans and have no interest in been a rugby fan, since league has become more visual we have become smaller. Every year hundreds of kids drop out of our clubs to go and play league they want to be the people they see on tv. There is no greater marketing tool for amateur clubs to get people playing the game than kids been exposed to it on television. You can hold all the clinics you want or have all the facilities in the world but if there is nobody that wants to use them it’s pointless.

Both parties need to realize they do not exist without each other, the strong and more recognizable the professional brands are the most kids turn up to preseason. The more facilities the amateur clubs have the more quality is fed to the pro clubs.

The two need to work together. Bolstering one will help bolster the other but it's no mistake that the likes of the NRL and AFL with their plenty in terms of opportunity are the more dominate. We cannot go back. We must go forward and both can do that with what I suggested above.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Serious question here. Can anyone point to a single case of scarcity of product been a successful case in sport?????

world cup

 

[Strewthcobber]

world cup

NFL, IPL

 

[Rebels3]

world cup

WC is a poor example, it’s hardly a yearly competition. It’s not the bred and butter competition that generates interest and engagement in the game.

NFL, IPL

The NFL has 250+ matches a season, is also complimented by the college football season, which is deliberately worked in tandem so they don’t clash in time slots. This means for 5 months a year you can watch gridiron on at a tv friendly time from Thursday-Monday. In comparison there is around 120 Super Rugby games of which 40% aren’t on at viewer friendly times.

IPL is probably the best example, but once again all matches are played in prime timeslots within the intended market, it’s also complimented by an Indian cricket team that plays over 50 fixtures a season if you count all forms. So you could be a fan of one of these ipl teams, get to watch 14 matches at friendly times and then also be engaged 50+ times by the national team.

 

[Adam84]

world cup

Big Bash, first 2 seasons

 

[Finsbury Girl]

WC is a poor example, it’s hardly a yearly competition. It’s not the bred and butter competition that generates interest and engagement in the game.


The NFL has 250+ matches a season, is also complimented by the college football season, which is deliberately worked in tandem so they don’t clash in time slots. This means for 5 months a year you can watch gridiron on at a tv friendly time from Thursday-Monday. In comparison there is around 120 Super Rugby games of which 40% aren’t on at viewer friendly times.

IPL is probably the best example, but once again all matches are played in prime timeslots within the intended market, it’s also complimented by an Indian cricket team that plays over 50 fixtures a season if you count all forms. So you could be a fan of one of these ipl teams, get to watch 14 matches at friendly times and then also be engaged 50+ times by the national team.

You asked for 1 example I gave you 1.

Here's another State of Origin.

 

[wamberal]

The Melbourne Cup is pretty popular.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You asked for 1 example I gave you 1.

Here's another State of Origin.

SOO is an event on top of an established professional competition. One that runs for 31 weeks. It's not the same as being the only show in town in respect to RL. Same with Horse Racing. There are actually many professional races in each state and an ever increasing number of big events.

 

[dru]

SOO is an event on top of an established professional competition. One that runs for 31 weeks. It's not the same as being the only show in town in respect to RL. Same with Horse Racing. There are actually many professional races in each state and an ever increasing number of big events.

Sorry, too many posts back for me to be bothered checking - but isn't that exactly what was being suggested? In a revised rugby?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Interesting you say WCR that rumblings NRC about to be ditched. It could surely only be ditched if replaced by something else which open to if plans to create a currie or mitre 10 type comp to complement round robin super rugby comp and indeed rapid rugby comp ie play this after completion of rapid rugby and super rugby season close and invite in oz super rugby sides + other GRR sides who don't have their own domestic pro comps (ie would exclude Japan but include Force, Fiji, Samoa, HK etc etc).

I really do believe this has to be on the table surely.....

 

[Dismal Pillock]

oops NSFW not happy with Soup rugby revamp.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...4/super-rugby-nsw-led-push-to-overturn-revamp

Andrew Hore:

"As you know, we are most unhappy with the direction that is being taken in terms of the future competition structure and the flow on impact to our business due to us potentially losing rugby football matches to big bad foreign teams instead of our nice safe conference home and away touch-ups of the local Aussie teams so mummy mummy can we PLEEEAAASSSE have a home quarter final every year mummy pleeeeease, I WANT IT NOW MUMMY."

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Nah Hore is right - this is diabolical for all oz super rugby pro teams as how can they possibly be long term viable as only pro opportunities offered to players in this country for a 13 round + finals comp with only 6 to 7 home games. - the damming bit is they outline in the article that RA has not provided any tangible solutions for the future.

NZ and SA are fine as they have Mitre 10 and Currie Cup.....while what do we have...NRC...oh dear.

The sad thing is this has all been heading this way for a while with no plan B ready.

RA are going to be frantically looking for a plan b to supplement super rugby and really should be putting out the red carpet for rapid rugby as a possible comp that could help them as that competition also has short season and would be looking for alternative comp's to help supplement (in similar vein that Force participates in NRC...but not sure NRC ideal vehicle as needs to rebranded and reinvigorated as different competition as struggled with crowds, lack of marketing etc etc).

Glad to see state home unions making some noise as round robin super rugby 14 team competition with SA and Jags will spell the death knell for pro oz rugby without some valid alternatives to package around this and supplement.

 

[kiap]

mummy mummy can we PLEEEAAASSSE have a home quarter final every year mummy pleeeeease, I WANT IT NOW MUMMY."

Mummy needs a visit from the rozzers, she is gonna drown her kids.

 

[sunnyboys]

Interesting you say WCR that rumblings NRC about to be ditched. It could surely only be ditched if replaced by something else which open to if plans to create a currie or mitre 10 type comp to complement round robin super rugby comp and indeed rapid rugby comp ie play this after completion of rapid rugby and super rugby season close and invite in oz super rugby sides + other GRR sides who don't have their own domestic pro comps (ie would exclude Japan but include Force, Fiji, Samoa, HK etc etc).

I really do believe this has to be on the table surely...

The first article I saw mentioning the end of NRC was in the Australian. It mentioned that RA was talking to clubs about an Australian Club Comp that would commence after a "truncated" club season and involve the top 4 or 5 from sydney and bris and one or so from canberra, melb etc...

 

[kiap]

"The meeting last Monday between the RA senior management and the CEOs of the respective Super States shed no light on the process of how the announced structure come to pass" – Hore​

So, RA bent themselves over to sign this off and then couldn't explain how it all happened to the shareholders.

Not even the old "48 to 72hrs" covering story, let alone a "by your leave" for the Supe sides.

Mum Raelene is on a $815,255 salary and is not fit for the job.

 

[Brumby Runner]

How do incompetents end up in massive contract jobs?