NSW Schools Debating 2019

[Wallaby97]

Greetings all, it's been a while since I logged on but now's the time of year to get things going again.

2019 certainly promises to be an interesting year for NSW schools debating. NSWDU has undergone a coaching reshuffle, and so the state team may have a very different dynamic this year. If anyone can shed light on the reasons for the coaching change I'd certainly be intrigued to hear more... one does wonder why they'd tamper with a winning formula, unless there is more going on behind the scenes.

I'm a little concerned about the major private school competitions for the first half of the year, ISDA and Eastside. I've heard some underwhelming appraisals (to put it mildly) of the Chief Adjudicators for both competitions. There's a suggestion that the ISDA CA has been censured in the past for setting inappropriate topics at university tournaments, and so we can only hope that this problem doesn't raise itself at schools level.

Looking forward to another exciting year!

 

[boseoisagod]

Hello,

The quarters for ISDA with results (Note Knox debate hasn't happened yet)
1sts:
Knox vs Redlands (knox should win)
SCEGGS vs Monte (Monte won)
Grammar vs PLC (Grammar won)
St Aloysius’ vs Pymble (St Aloysius’ won)

And since we are posting year 10:
Abbotsleigh vs MLC (Abbotsleigh won)
Knox vs Loreto Kirribilli (Knox won)
Queenwood vs Newington (Queenwood won)
Barker vs PLC (Barker wob)
Interestingly the remaining 4 teams in year 10 are all from group C. No surprise seeing that as it was the most competitive group.

Nationals also recently happened with NSW taking the win. Some weird things did happen there though:
1. The NSW captain james price was put to speak 1st. This is unusual since captains arent usually 1st speakers, but also because his natural position is seemingly 2nd from past debates. I guess though that was an issue with team selection though.
2. likely due to this he wasnt selected for the national team, however Ally Pitt was (year 11 so congrats)
3. I heard a year 11 kid selected called jin didn't make the first 4 despite his skill over some of the other people (havent seen him debate so can't say exactly).
4. They had a year 12 student Maja Vasic in reserve for the team. That was very weird that they picked her over a younger student who they could have developed for future years. there was one year 10 kid mentioned in the post above this (now deleted) that they took to the last 12 but didn't put on the reserves. That seems a little counter-intuitive to take someone so far then drop him but i havent seen him or Maja debate.

If you want, have a look at the "interesting" article on the team I saw in the SMH.
https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elec...t-on-the-leader-showdown-20190508-p51lgj.html

Anyway congrats to NSW and can someone give an update on eastside? Let's see some activity here!

 

[rowerforlife]

This has been an extremely quiet thread this year - no doubt that the standard of debating at almost all major powerhouses has dropped from previous years with SGHS, SBHS and SGS all with significantly weaker teams.

"boseoisagod" - I would certainly be much more careful about saying such statements regarding the NSW team. Naturally, their success at nationals means their coaches selected the teams well and almost certainly deserved more places in the Australian Schools team. As to the reserve selections (having watched both debate before), time will tell whether a correct decision was made - regardless NSW will be strong next year.

Eastside update - SGHS took out the competition in yr11 and yr12.
In PDC Karl Cramp - my tip to win would be SGHS with an extremely well-rounded team (I would say even better than their Yr12 team).
In PDC Hume Barbour, SGHS look strong to win, but a loss to a much weaker team shows they are not without flaws. High will be eager to retain the trophy, going undefeated so far in the competition with a relatively strong team.

By far, the GPS competition looks poised for anyone to take. Here are my possible contenders:
1) High - the most likely victors of the comp this year who will be looking to extend their 4year championship streak. Despite the team not having star speakers like previous years, they have one returning firsts member, seem to be well-rounded enough and are bolstered by their coach also being the victorious NSW team coach. Interestingly, they lost to Grammar in Eastside - noting that grammar fields their thirds in this comp. However, many High teams have failed in Eastside but emerged champions in GPS and I see this year as no different. Any extra points on their speakers would be greatly appreciated to inform this decision more.
2) Grammar will certainly be a contender this year - however with two(three?) yr11s in firsts this year they will struggle with a lack of experience. Their success so far in ISDA bodes well and I tip them along with Barker to win that comp. More notably, the lack of the sole state squad member in firsts calls to question the trialling process at grammar. Hopefully the speaker in question returns to firsts, bolstering the teams chance at recovering the shield from High.
3) Shore has an outside chance this year, but have typically been strong within this year group right from yr7 to 11. Hopefully some upsets from this team will split the comp open.
4) Kings have one state reserve team speaker in yr11 who leads their hopes of their first GPS premiership in many years. Hopefully the rest of the team supports him well to see this occur. Regardless, expect Kings and Grammar to both be very very strong teams next year.

 

[NotSoSlimShady]

Just another update on the potential in the GPS competition. I would agree that it looks like a very open competition this year.

I would add Riverview to the list of teams that could possibly contend as well. They pulled 6 wins from what was one of the more difficult ISDA pools (including SCEGGS Darlinghurst, Knox, Abbottsleigh and Kings) but were knocked out in first round of Octos so that presents some doubts.

Just running through each of the GPS teams and their results in ISDA

• Grammar: 6 wins + A spot in the Final (yet to debate)
• Joey's: 3 wins + knocked out in Octos by PLC
• Riverview: 6 wins + knocked out in Octos by St Aloysius
• Newington: 3 wins + knocked out in Octos by Monte
• Kings: 3 wins
• Scots: 3 wins
• Shore: 2 wins

Joeys, Newington and Shore were all in the same pool. Kings and Riverview were also in the same pool. Unfortunately the results of each individual team and which team they debated against are no longer available so I wouldn't be able to tell you how each GPS team matched up against eachother. If anyone had knowledge if this that would be great.

This one will be difficult to predict and won't be as straightforward for High and Grammar to usually finish 1 and 2 as we might assume. From what I've read on here and observed, Kings, Shore and potentially Riverview all look like teams that could make a challenge and disrupt the usual High/Grammar dominance over the competition over the last 10 years.

Would not be surprised if this year ends in a combined premiership.

 

[2nd Speaker Substantive]

Salutations all. It’s been a while since the last Green and Gold post, and a multitude of events have taken place. The amount of news to share is colossal. Let us perhaps commence with the first round of the Greater Public Schools Debating competition. In an upset for the ages, The Kings School, Parramatta, has defeated Sydney Boys High School, Sydney, “ending the drought”, in what critics are calling the David and Goliath of our times. Sydney Boys High School, Sydney, has been undefeated in this fine competition of valiant boys growing into men for the past ⅕ score years, and The Kings School, Parramatta, has not been successful in winning the premiership since 1929, a year marking the commencement of the Great Depression in more ways than one for our monarchical compatriots. The Kings School, Parramatta, Greater Public Schools firsts team, led by the Messiah himself, the one and only Jinyoung Kim, vanquished their public school foes, fortiter et fideliter. The topic they toiled upon was, according to inside sources, “That we should create an independent board of climate scientists to write and pass climate “““legislarion”””. ” A startling and shocking starting start to the Greater Public Schools Debating Competition, MMXIX.

xoxo

Francine

 

[rowerforlife]

Despite High's loss, I have heard otherwise about their (supposedly strong) performance with claims that they probably should have won and were extremely unlucky with the adj. This loss still confirms the team not living up to previous years, although they still have a chance at being premiers.
Elsewhere, Grammar defeated Joey's and I am unaware of other results. High faces Joey's this Friday so expect a mammoth effort from them to atone for last week.
With the comp now thrown wide open, i would tip grammar to (hopefully) be the GPS champions this year.

 

[boseoisagod]

CAS is going okay. Topics have been especially unusual:
First round was that all uni students should have to take a generalised course before their specialist one(i.e. a science degree before med) - not a fan of this topic. I prefer the year 10 one, which legitimately was "The carrot is better than the stick". Wow.

Second was legalising pill testing at music festivals - a bit one sided personally and a difficult neg to run, but good teams should be able to make it a nice debate.

Third was "That the UK should hold a second referendum on Brexit." Sources in the Barker community tell me that Knox was absolutely murdered by this, with all 4 open teams on the neg, and predictably all 4 opens teams losing. Any aff with a decent knowledge of british politics should breeze through that.

As for CAS teams, nothing can truly be said at this point in time. I have a feeling Barker or Aloysius will take out the cup, but as stated earlier, Knox had 3 members of their team in the state squad trials, so I would be careful in dismissing their ability to take out some spots in the teams. They also have waverly and cranbrook as their last debates, so presuming all goes well with them, there may be some upsets in the end. Either way, CAS is looking strong so far.

 

[2nd Speaker Substantive]

Greetings Green and Gold forum participants.

Whilst I appreciate the publicity given by the young men from the King’s School, Parramatta, I’d like to express disappointment at the lack of recent engagement in this forum, and strongly urge all debaters from our fine state of New South Wales to pick up the participation on this online messaging board.

In response to user “rowerforlife”, tipping Sydney Grammar School, Sydney, to be this year’s GPS champions seems a somewhat unimaginative choice. Though their recent success in the Independent Schools Debating Association Competition would imply some future success, upsets in this fine sport of debating happen. Sydney Grammar School, Sydney, could have upsets that endanger their prospects, and Sydney Boys High School, Moore Park, could overcome their upset and make their way to the premiership title. However, it is true that Sydney Grammar School, Sydney, seems the obvious choice for the much-coveted first position.

In additional information, the prestigious Representative Debating Competition will be upon us in just under a month. The Combined High Schools team had made its selection of 8 fine public school debaters, listed below:
Ryan Borges (Year 12, Sydney Boys High School, Moore Park)
Chriso Chindilas (Year 11, Cammeraygal High School, Crows Nest)
Himaja Dave (Year 12, Crestwood High School, Baulkham Hills)
Aman Mohamed (Year 12, Sydney Boys High School, Moore Park)
Ally Pitt (Year 11, Sydney Girls High School, Surry Hills)
Maja Vasic (Year 12, St George Girls High School, Kogarah)
Charlie Yang (Year 12, James Ruse Agricultural High School, Carlingford)
Anna-Sophia Zahar (Year 12, Sydney Girls High School, Surry Hills)

Finally, I would like to also note that the Drought has continued out in the West and unfortunately, The Kings School, Parramatta, is now most likely out of the running for this year’s premiership with their loss to Sydney Grammar School, Sydney. Maybe the rains will come next year boys.

xoxo
Francine

 

[boseoisagod]

Hello All,

CAS Teams out (Have been edited):
1sts:
Dan Abbot (Barker)
Matis Renard (St Aloysius)
James Price (Knox, Captain)
Sam Hall (Waverly)
2nds: (Edited)
Peter Foord (Cranbrook)
Jack Breden (Barker, Captain)
Eugene Bakker (Knox)
Zachary Slonim (Knox)
3rds:
Matthew Brock (Waverly)
Kira Trahana (Barker)
Luke Cass (St Aloysius)
Rhys Mackintosh (Barker)

Having seen a lot of CAS debates and some important fixtures, I do believe Barker does have a bit of over-representation here, even if they did win the competition. I also believe the topics were truly astounding:
Round 1 - That all university students should have to complete a generalist degree before pursuing a specialised one
Round 2 - That we should legalise pill testing at music festivals
Round 3 - That the UK should hold a second referendum on Brexit
Round 4 - That we should implement a Universal Base Income
Round 5 - That we should have a quota in Australian Parliament for Aboriginal people
Rounds 2, 3, 4 (And maybe 5, seems all right to me) were all particularly one sided, and I don't think this team gives any indication whatsoever about actual skill level here. Notably, I believe a couple of people were missed out here (I believe one kid who did well in states from Knox wasn't there, but I think that was the year 10 kid, so he may have been a one trick pony and just failed here) and a Aloysius kid who was actually quite good from when I saw him debate. I do think though that Dan Abbot is a good choice, having seen him debate he is not bad at all.

Honestly, I do not feel too confident about CAS for the cup this year. Their teams have been quite skewed not only in the topics dealt out (Obviously favoured some more than others) and their unusual tendency to ignore people in teams that weren't the 1sts and their obsession over actual results over plain speaker scores. The CHS Team seems quite poised to take the cup here, with 3 astoundingly strong debaters in Ally Pitt, Maja Vasic and Anna-Sophia Zahar, all of whom were in the Nationals winning NSW team. Maybe if Jinyoung Kim is as astounding as put out to be, then GPS may have a decent chance as well, but I think that CAS as a whole was thoroughly unimpressive.

 

[thatWasToSay]

We've now reached Round 5 of GPS, and I assume we'll be getting representative teams early next week.

However, the GPS website has yet to be updated with results, so I was wondering if anyone on this forum could update us as to the results of any debates they'd seen/heard about?

Additionally, an tips for GPS Reps selections before they come out?

 

[boseoisagod]

Hello All,

In a bizarre twist of fate, I have been informed by contacts at both Barker and Trinity that Nicholas Bouletos from Trinity Grammar cannot attend the competition (Can also be seen online). As a result, Sam Hall from Waverly has been moved up to the 1sts, and Zachary Slonim from Knox Grammar School has instead been put into the 2nds team, meaning that the entire Knox Grammar 1sts team is represented within the CAS teams. This is truly surprising, seeing as the Barker squad who won the entire thing has only 2 members of their 1sts team in the squad. However, it is noted they deserve this, and by no means is this an unfair imbalance of representation and skill.

Will this change the result of the competition - probably not. Skill wise, Hall does not even hold a candle to Eugene Bakker from Knox, with his success in the state training squad obviously shows his ability, and even when the topics seemed to be against him (I note the Barker debate here), he still performed quite well. Slonim is decent, and actually gives hope for the 2nds to take out their division.

From what I am aware there is a lot of politics going on here, and members who deserved to be in the teams were denied access. Seeing as tension would be there, I think that the teams are well divided. Obviously for the 1sts to have a chance of beating CHS, they need Bakker in their team to provide support for James Price, but I doubt they would be able to pull off 2 Knox speakers in the 1sts team when Barker won. A slightly higher change of victory from the 1sts should not come at the cost of the 2nds being in a much better position. Still, I do believe that there is some work to be done in making the teams more representative, with some very high quality speakers being denied a spot in the teams. Nice edit, but a person dropping out should not be the reason that the CAS make their teams better.

 

[greybc]

Archdale is out

Firsts (in speaking order)
1. Mari Watkins (Roseville, year 11)
2. Niamh Brazil (SCEGGS, year 12)
3. Adelaide Hayes (Monte, year 12)
4. Alex Bako (Kambala, year 10)

Seconds (in speaking order)
1. Brianna Ho (Abbotsleigh, year 11)
2. Ariana Haghighi (MLC, year 11)
3. Jessica Cejnar (Abbotsleigh, year 12)
4. Mikaela Nguyen (MLC, year 10)

Thirds (speaking positions will rotate)
- Anna Miller (Roseville, year 11)
- Hazel Sung (MLC, year 11)
- Jasmine Aitken (Tangara, year 11)
- Katarina Kuo (SCEGGS, year 11)
- Satara Uthayakumaran (Abbotsleigh, year 11)

 

[SGS 2019]

So the CAS, Archdale and CHS representative teams are out now - does anyone have news on the GPS team - the rep debates start on Wednesday. It'd be interesting to see what final teams are. Grammar, who are now quite on track to winning the premiership boasts a 1sts team of 3 year 11s (including Mason and Bennett - both marvellous debaters) - would be interesting to see if they make it through. Additionally, Jacky Chai - Grammar's only state debater - debates in the 2s (quite strange, I know), so that could be weird in terms of consideration for GPS trials. Of course, King's have that Jin lad - I've never seen him, but I've heard he's quite good. Riverview have a strong outfit as well - if anyone knows how their debates against Grammar went on Friday, please let us know.

 

[rowerforlife]

GPS teams came out on Friday. Not too sure of the schools all of them are from so if people could fill them in that would be great! (not too sure if these are the speaking orders)

GPS Firsts:
Joshua Lin (Shore)
Bennett Roebuck-Krautz (Grammar)
Leo Ye (High)
Peter Taurian - 4th (Grammar)

GPS Seconds:
Bas Braham (Ignatius)
Jinyoung Kim (Kings)
Jonathan Ryan (?)
Jack Lewis - 4th (?)

GPS Thirds:
Matthew Barrett (?)
Richard Mills (Kings)
Joe Ruddick (Ignatius)
Grayson Richardson - 4th (?)

Interesting team selections - noting Jinyoung from kings isn't in GPS 1sts despite being in the NSW reserve team. Perhaps this is a tactical selection to boost the 2nds chance of winning debates so GPS can win the cup - Note that the rep team needs to win in firsts and seconds to help secure the cup. Mason from Grammar 1sts also not in the team - another surprising omission.

CHS haven't released their final teams as far as I know, although rumour is that they will be moving speakers around between teams/within teams for each debate - hopefully this pays off for them. Round 1 of the rep season is this Wednesday.

The biggest news from Friday night is Grammar Firsts' loss to Riverview, while High have won all of their debates since their shock loss to Kings in Rd1. This means both teams go into this Friday's debate with 1 loss each - the winner will be premiers.
My tip would have to be High, who seem to have regained their footing and built momentum into this last debate. Their speakers are also well represented in CHS (2 speakers) and GPS (1 speaker). Grammar will be reeling after their loss but will also have the College St home ground advantage. Should be a cracker this Friday!

 

[NotSoSlimShady]

Whilst I appreciate the publicity given by the young men from the King’s School, Parramatta,

I think this might be referring to this page (with 400+ members)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/805266723167633/

Whilst the King's vs Scots debate won't be significant in terms of deciding the Premiership (King's would only be able to finish =2nd on 5 wins), inside sources say that the debate will still be a grand occasion with a crowd of 400+ expected which will surely set an attendance record.

 

[boseoisagod]

Quickly on the Archdale teams (I know this is a bit late), interesting how a year 10 speaker is in the firsts and another in the thirds. Looking back on ISDA, Abbotsleigh (Who won in year 10) knocked out both Kambala and MLC, and yet they have no year 10 representation, which is especially unusual. However not being from Archdale, Kambala could have really come back suddenly... This also highlights the unusual nature of CAS not having any year 10 representation in any team. Jacky Chai's absence from the team is also very surprising to me.

From memory Grayson Richardson is from Newington and Matthew Barrett is a shore kid, but this may be wrong.

I also reckon that High will win on Friday, but Grammar have been known to pull some upsets, so I think any guess right now is a good one.

 

[2nd Speaker Substantive]

Good evening all.

As an omniscient being, it has come to my attention that t

he Combined High Schools speaking order has not been provided on this forum of discussion for the activities known as 'debates' taking place tonight. As an omniscient being, I have acquired this knowledge

They are, as follows:
Combined High School Firsts
First speaker - Maja
Second speaker - Anna-Sophia
Third speaker - Ally
Fourth speaker - Chriso

Combined High School Seconds
First speaker - Charlie
Second speaker - Ryan
Third speaker - Aman
Fourth speaker - Himaja

Sources (and my omniscience) have informed me that Maja may be ill tonight, during the allotted times for the debate. If this is verified, only time will tell if the Combined High School debating team can improvise, adapt, overcome.

Re: the upcoming the high/grammar debate, I would also tip High to maintain their 5-year streak. Either way, it will be an interesting occasion.

xoxo
Francine

 

[SGS 2019]

Well, since no one has mentioned it: The Grammar boys have taken out the GPS premiership, ending high's 4 year stranglehold on the competition - Grammar was aff in the debate. Massive crowds at College St from both schools, with Mason Ginters interestingly not speaking. Nevertheless, it was a very tight debate, but by the end of the 3rd Aff speech, it was always going to be very tricky for high to pull it back.

 

[greybc]

GPS takes the representative cup, with Archdale coming in second. Not sure about other placings as I didn't attend round 3, however have some results on hand:

Round 1:
GPS 1sts beat CAS 1sts
Archdale 1sts beat CHS 1sts
CAS 2nds beat GPS 2nds
CHS 2nds beat Archdale 2nds

Round 2:
CAS 1sts beat CHS 1sts
Archdale 1sts beat GPS 1sts
CHS 2nds beat CAS 2nds
GPS 2nds beat Archdale 2nds

Round 3:
Archdale 1sts beat CAS 1sts
GPS 1sts beat CHS 1sts
CAS 2nds beat Archdale 2nds
(not sure about result of GPS vs CHS 2nds)

Overall an extremely close competition. Some surprising results given CHS were clear favourites. Archdale 1sts won each debate, and were unlucky for their 2nds to lose each debate or might've taken the cup.

 

[boseoisagod]

GPS takes the representative cup, with Archdale coming in second. Not sure about other placings as I didn't attend round 3, however have some results on hand:

Round 1:
GPS 1sts beat CAS 1sts
Archdale 1sts beat CHS 1sts
CAS 2nds beat GPS 2nds
CHS 2nds beat Archdale 2nds

Round 2:
CAS 1sts beat CHS 1sts
Archdale 1sts beat GPS 1sts
CHS 2nds beat CAS 2nds
GPS 2nds beat Archdale 2nds

Round 3:
Archdale 1sts beat CAS 1sts
GPS 1sts beat CHS 1sts
CAS 2nds beat Archdale 2nds
(not sure about result of GPS vs CHS 2nds)

Overall an extremely close competition. Some surprising results given CHS were clear favourites. Archdale 1sts won each debate, and were unlucky for their 2nds to lose each debate or might've taken the cup.

Topics? I know round 1 was "TWS ban any media/figure publicly denying or supporting denial of climate change", which has an interesting neg when you get into it.