Bledisloe #4 New Zealand vs Australia Nov 7 2020

[Up the Guts]

Huh?

Seriously, this is something that Kearns and Marshall talked about on their video with Grant Nisbett recently. "Oh you should defend in the line if you're the 10"

Bullshit.

This pattern has been used by multiple Test and Provincial sides - including Barrett and Mo'unga at both levels - and it only ever seems to be an issue when it doesn't work.

The pattern is run at schoolboy level. It’s as much about having your ten back to organise counter or make a kick return as it is about defensive capabilities.

 

[Pfitzy]

The pattern is run at schoolboy level. It’s as much about having your ten back to organise counter or make a kick return as it is about defensive capabilities.

Bingo. Your best fullback option under the high ball may not be your best decision maker for counterattack or options.

Backs are bad enough. Outside backs are worse

 

[rodha]

Huh?

Seriously, this is something that Kearns and Marshall talked about on their video with Grant Nisbett recently. "Oh you should defend in the line if you're the 10"

Bullshit.

This pattern has been used by multiple Test and Provincial sides - including Barrett and Mo'unga at both levels - and it only ever seems to be an issue when it doesn't work.

That's beside the point. The Scottish defense regressed under Matt Taylor & there's little indication of him being an international quality defense coach. I said at the time (mid-late 2019) that Australian Rugby should've targeted Steve Tandy at the Waratahs, but alas he's now gone & taken Scotland to their best defensive record in over 20 years.

 

[upthereds#!]

Lolesio was positioning poorly at the back, but I'm sure he wasn't expecting people to space themselves poorly in front and miss their tackles.

That being said, I would say Lolesio didn't even LOOK like trying to tackle Mounga on his 2 breaks.

 

[barbarian]

I’m completely with this and really like Hodge at 15. Still while I rate DHP much more poorly than many here, even I can see he was not an important cog of the dreadful performance in Bled #3 and I would understand persisting.

Oh no, I'm with you on DHP. He was a pretty sizeable cog. How many high balls did he spill? At least three. And when he did have the opportunity to run it back, he was cumbersome. I'll give him the run and back him to improve, but he needs to show up on Saturday to keep his spot.

 

[barbarian]

That's beside the point. The Scottish defense regressed under Matt Taylor & there's little indication of him being an international quality defense coach. I said at the time (mid-late 2019) that Australian Rugby should've targeted Steve Tandy at the Waratahs, but alas he's now gone & taken Scotland to their best defensive record in over 20 years.

Ah, so we're judging Steve Tandy on his 2020 Scotland performance, rather than his 2019 Waratahs performance? I seem to recall we weren't a defensive juggernaut on our way to a 12th place finish.

In reality judging specialist coaches from afar is a mug's game. Sure you can make some wider observations but it's hard to actually know who is good and who is lucky.

If the Wallabies miss 35 one-on-one tackles in a game, is Taylor a bad defensive coach? Maybe, but maybe not. Coming on here and saying coach X will fix all our problems because he's better than coach Y just rings alarm bells with me.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The physicality was OK, possibly misdirected. But it was not effective and we had a lot less ball than in the previous two tests. We were unable to protect our own pill and provide almost any front foot pill. On the rare occasion that we did we made inroads.
We need more clean outs and protection of our ball on attack.
Having Simmons and Hanigan in the same starting pack leaves us a little short on coalface grunt.

Broken record stuff JB but really how much grunt does Hooper provide when he's usually many metres away from the breakdown?

 

[formerflanker]

Some agile and innovative thinking is required to fix the "10 can't defend" problem.
Train 10 to push on the side of a scrum and put 6 in the defensive line from all set play.
A simple solution from a - never mind.
It was just a thought.

 

[Braveheart81]

We won 59/63 of our rucks vs 69/72 for the All Blacks. The first half was where we got smashed with the All Blacks having 2/3 of the possession.

Conceding an extra 8 turnovers despite having substantially less possession killed us. We also missed 6 more tackles.

The run metres were very even.

It didn't feel to me like the breakdown was where that game went wrong whatsoever. That wasn't how we were losing the ball.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The pattern is run at schoolboy level. It’s as much about having your ten back to organise counter or make a kick return as it is about defensive capabilities.

It doesn't matter what happens in games not involving the ABs, nor what the ABs themselves do. It isn't a viable option against the ABs because they attack flaws in the defense so much more efficiently and more often than anyone else. Unfortunately, as discussed above the Wallabies play the ABs more often than not than any other country does so the impact of having questionable defense systems and tactics must impact us more than others. Let's be brave and have everyone defend in the positions they've been selected and see where that gets us.

 

[Joe Blow]

Broken record stuff JB but really how much grunt does Hooper provide when he's usually many metres away from the breakdown?

I know Hooper is not a Brumby but he is by far the best 7 in the country and he offers more grunt than many tight 5 players. Your 7 should not be relied upon to provide the beef at the coalface, which Hooper often does.

Would not be surprised to see Isi in there somewhere, which IMO would be a mistake.

 

[wamberal]

Some agile and innovative thinking is required to fix the "10 can't defend" problem.
Train 10 to push on the side of a scrum and put 6 in the defensive line from all set play.
A simple solution from a - never mind.
It was just a thought.

That's so crazy, it might just work!!! Or maybe not.

 

[Pfitzy]

Some agile and innovative thinking is required to fix the "10 can't defend" problem.
Train 10 to push on the side of a scrum and put 6 in the defensive line from all set play.
A simple solution from a - never mind.
It was just a thought.

Played a game this year where a side scored, then from the kickoff went across the 22 and scored again.

So we put our #8 out there and waited for them to do the same move at the next restart.

After opposing player caught his breath, that was the last time they used that move.

 

[Slim 293]

Caderyn Neville has been called into the squad with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) in doubt..........

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/...ter-lukhan-salakaia-loto-injury-bledisloe-cup

 

[Joe Blow]

Caderyn Neville has been called into the squad with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) in doubt....

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/...ter-lukhan-salakaia-loto-injury-bledisloe-cup

That happened 2-3 days ago I think

 

[rodha]

Ah, so we're judging Steve Tandy on his 2020 Scotland performance, rather than his 2019 Waratahs performance? I seem to recall we weren't a defensive juggernaut on our way to a 12th place finish.

In reality judging specialist coaches from afar is a mug's game. Sure you can make some wider observations but it's hard to actually know who is good and who is lucky.

If the Wallabies miss 35 one-on-one tackles in a game, is Taylor a bad defensive coach? Maybe, but maybe not. Coming on here and saying coach X will fix all our problems because he's better than coach Y just rings alarm bells with me.

Tandy has a much stronger & more diverse CV.

While still a player, he took his first coaching role within the Ospreys age-grade teams, and as coach of the U16's he won the WRU Age Grade Championship. He then took up a head coaching role at the Bridgend RFC in the Welsh Premier Division in 2011.

He led the Ravens to the Division 1 title, with an incredible 96 points (just one defeat and one draw shy of an unbeaten season.) He then guided them into the Principality Premiership with victory over Glamorgan Wanderers 38-19 at the Cardiff Arms Park.

He then won Pro14 title as coach of Ospreys, then left for the Waratahs (who went from 16th to 3rd) in his 1st season with them.

 

[TSR]

I know Hooper is not a Brumby .

To be fair on this, neither is Liam Wright who is BRs preferred 7 - although I am not advocating to drop Hooper.

 

[Joe Blow]

To be fair on this, neither is Liam Wright who is BRs preferred 7 - although I am not advocating to drop Hooper.

His time will come. After a very impressive super rugby campaign he didn’t do himself any favours a few weeks back. I’m sure we will see him in the next month or so, as a 6.
I would guess that the challenge for Hoopers spot will come from McReight first.

 

[Sully]

That's so crazy, it might just work!!! Or maybe not.

Who tackles the 8 man off the back of the scrum?

 

[TSR]

The joy of the modern coach. You get criticised by one group of supporters because you don’t play exactly the way they did in the 80s at the same time by another group for not being more radical.