Where to for Super Rugby?

[Members Section]

Would I be totally out of line to suggest that a large part of the tah's squad would reside on the inner north peninsula? Might be time to get them out of there.

 

[Adam84]

Adam & Derpus

Let me see if this helps.

Both codes until recently had similar structures, which broadly speaking is as follows.

Local grassroots teams form into, Rugby Districts, Soccer Associations.

State based, Rugby Unions, Soccer Federations.

Both have professional competitions effectively controlled by their national bodies, Rugby Super Rugby, Soccer A-League.

Both have international match schedules and both have male and female international teams.

Both Rugby & Soccer, sit well behind the major codes in terms of media coverage and revenue and ratings.

Both codes have the desire to grow and both fear shrinkage.

Both codes but especially Soccer are being affected by Crickets expansion into more games and more club based short forms of Cricket.

Adam, just on the Real & GBP etc community teams, you mentioned, all these teams play in competitions that are light years ahead of their nearest competition and in the case of Real they have been bailed out numerous times by Spanish governments.

In Australia both Rugby & Soccer are in the process of trying to ensure they are around at least at their current status in say 30 years.

The A-League clubs and Soccer media have fort hard to separate themselves from their governing body. The reason they have and its interesting it kinda happen more by accident than a from the beginning want. BUT the A-League teams believe they can run a professional competition better than their governing body.

They sight, many overseas successful competitions run by the clubs and not their governing bodies.

As I have previously posted the sporting environment has changed with E-Games, X-Games and the growth of previously minor codes, with most Olympic sports struggling. Meaning the sporting landscape is increasingly changing.

To this end my belief is the best way for Rugby to both survive and expand is to develop a national based competition and to this end the best way to develop a strong national based competition is to have an independent competition run by the club owners in a format established by a national body.

Soccer has done this now and as I see it we need to watch and see if it works.

Any analysis needs to be facts based, with a dispassionate view, contain no bias and be used to benefit Rugby.

Understand there are some similarities between the two, I just think there are even more differences which would prevent the same structure being applicable to both. Specifically the fact that soccer has over 1.4 million participants compared to rugby’s 250k, this alone speaks volumes about the economic value of both.

Domestically and International the ‘football economy’ of players and team owners far exceeds that of rugby union, people willing to invest in club ownership. Rugby union in Australia doesn’t have the same number of supporters willing to invest, and there aren’t international consortiums from Asia lining up to purchase a club either as there are in soccer. Melbourne Rebels have already tried this model twice and it failed.

It’s difficult to have a competition run by the clubs when the clubs don’t have the supporters willing to pay for them. Show me 6 or 7 more twiggy forests and we might have a chance though..

For all the talk of the A-League, I actually think the BBL and NBL offer better examples which rugby could take notes from.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

My post is not about the A-League

Dude, ALL of your posts are about the A-League.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There's been an article out of Fiji indicating that the Drua alongside Moana Pasifika will be joining a 12 team Pacific based Super Rugby competition alongside the five franchises from both Aus and NZ from 2022. I cannot post the link at present as the site (PlanetRugby) won't load. But it's very interesting and hopefully confirmed soon.

 

[Dan54]

There's been an article out of Fiji indicating that the Drua alongside Moana Pasifika will be joining a 12 team Pacific based Super Rugby competition alongside the five franchises from both Aus and NZ from 2022. I cannot post the link at present as the site (PlanetRugby) won't load. But it's very interesting and hopefully confirmed soon.

Hope that is correct and they got everything in place. Would be great.

 

[Derpus]

There's been an article out of Fiji indicating that the Drua alongside Moana Pasifika will be joining a 12 team Pacific based Super Rugby competition alongside the five franchises from both Aus and NZ from 2022. I cannot post the link at present as the site (PlanetRugby) won't load. But it's very interesting and hopefully confirmed soon.

Any speculation as to whether it will be conference based or what?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Any speculation as to whether it will be conference based or what?

No. Doubt we'll see conferences. At least officially. I'm hoping for them to settle on the same season structure as the new Japanese league that will also have 12 teams playing over 16 rounds. Which would open up opportunities for a Cup competition in the schedule.

 

[Dan54]

Any speculation as to whether it will be conference based or what?

Would think it would be in Super Aus if it happens, if Aus allows them to join of course.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Would think it would be in Super Aus if it happens, if Aus allows them to join of course.

I guess the structure will depend on what the world looks like in 2022. Will it be more of a return to normalcy or will Covid still be the disruptor it currently remains? I actually don't mind the idea of conferences. With Fiji in ours and Moana in NZ's playing home and away with crossover games between conferences for a total of 16 games with a 6 team finals series determined from a combined ladder. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Some interesting comments regarding the future of MLR by Ben Foden. In particularly that of season length and it's ability to potentially play a huge part of MLR ever reaches the point where they can begin to offer similar contract to that in Europe. That the 5 month window would be very, very attractive to players. From a perspective of player welfare and being able to actively participate in Test Rugby. Which he as a player put a lot of emphasis and something Dylan Hartley and Simon Zebo (these comments are from the Rugby Offload podcast) didn't push back on.

Which is something Super Rugby could look to build on to an extent alongside the Japanese league. The key will be finding the capital but there seems to be a real interest in shorter seasons from players.

 

[dru]

Some interesting comments regarding the future of MLR by Ben Foden. In particularly that of season length and it's ability to potentially play a huge part of MLR ever reaches the point where they can begin to offer similar contract to that in Europe. That the 5 month window would be very, very attractive to players. From a perspective of player welfare and being able to actively participate in Test Rugby. Which he as a player put a lot of emphasis and something Dylan Hartley and Simon Zebo (these comments are from the Rugby Offload podcast) didn't push back on.

Which is something Super Rugby could look to build on to an extent alongside the Japanese league. The key will be finding the capital but there seems to be a real interest in shorter seasons from players.

It is a professional sport which in turn makes it a business. A business that must generate turnover sufficient to cover costs (and ideally expansion). How does a shorter season work with that?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It is a professional sport which in turn makes it a business. A business that must generate turnover sufficient to cover costs (and ideally expansion). How does a shorter season work with that?

Healthier players generally leads to higher quality contests. Higher quality contests draws in more eyes. Certainly seems to work in other sports which have massively profitable leagues.

 

[dru]

Healthier players generally leads to higher quality contests. Higher quality contests draws in more eyes. Certainly seems to work in other sports which have massively profitable leagues.

My understanding was that 7 homes games (in the season proper, not finals) was not really enough to make it work. Cut any shorter and funding must come from somewhere.

Edit: add to that the fact that the broadcasters are looking for content.

 

[Derpus]

Healthier players generally leads to higher quality contests. Higher quality contests draws in more eyes. Certainly seems to work in other sports which have massively profitable leagues.

I can only really think of NFL that has relatively few home games a season. Most of the other big time leagues have bucketloads. EPL, MLB, NBL, cricket (not really a league, i suppose) etc

 

[kiap]

I can only really think of NFL that has relatively few home games a season. Most of the other big time leagues have bucketloads. EPL, MLB, NBL, cricket (not really a league, i suppose) etc

Coincidentally, none being full-contact sports.

In that respect, rugby can probably compare itself across the various pro comps worldwide and then loig. Can't afford to go as short a season as NFL, but it would be better shorter than the some of the euro comps for sure.

 

[dru]

but it would be better shorter than the some of the euro comps for sure.

We are already aren't we? The Super season does not need shortening in my opinion.

 

[kiap]

We are already aren't we? The Super season does not need shortening in my opinion.

Yeah, in these covid times it doesn't need shortening.

Conversation is more for future expansion where 2*PI + Japan (and more) are being added to the mix --- imo pre-covid Super did have a tendency to get stale and drag out.

It's one of the reasons I'm keen for Drua to join SRAu. A shorter separate comp feeding into a wider Super Rugby championship to involve further-flung exotic franchises.

The length of pro comps also needs to be well factored in with the international rugby component.

 

[Rebel man]

If we do to the 12 team comp as of next year it should be a 22 round season with a top 5

 

[kiap]

^ As Pauline Pantsdown said, I don't like it.

Too many problems.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If we do to the 12 team comp as of next year it should be a 22 round season with a top 5

For me with Trans Tasman - I would only want fully 12 team comp with 22 rounds if NZRU agree to open borders policy - ie as long as players play for Trans Tasman team they are eligible for Wallaby or All Blacks etc....otherwise we get into old super rugby issues of lopsided competition (and the answer is not for oz to have less professional teams). Otherwise prefer the Super Rugby AU format (with Fiji added) and then joined up Tran Tasman where I think we can wear a few oz sides not being competitive.

Don't get me wrong the other things like allowing more marquee imports (read Force and Rebels) to make oz sides more competitive is a good initiative but to me a truly great super rugby competition imho is sorting out an open borders policy as a competition dominated by Kiwi sides is really not the answer to grow the regions rugby footprint.