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NSW AAGPS 2022

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Joker

Moderator
Staff member
I was at "the swamp" on Saturday talking to a few of the Scots parents who had boys playing in the 1's and2's. Lots of talk re the head coach and occasional teacher being shown the door if they do not win the title this year. Lots of discontent amongst the boys and parents around the rugby program and the culture or lack thereof. It was evident with the #12 not taking part in the school song with the team or in the sheds after the game. Ignored behavior is approved behavior. Congratulations to TSC on the win, we looked the best team for most of the game however couldn't close it out.

I worked at TSC during the change from staff coaching the 1st XV to the induction of professional coaches who can teach a bit. While some have varying teaching loads given to them (I beleive Smith is on a full load) they are employed mainly to bring in the premierships. Before this it was hard working staff like Cooper, Graham, Inches who all taught full time and coached as well as they could with the cattle they had. First coach brought in was Cutler, but he wasn't supported with "new cattle". He did though help all teams, even the Prep. Additional Staff were then brought into find these elusive beasts and lure them to the pastures of Bellevue. It was too late for Cutler and he was shown the door after two seasons. Then Lambert arrived. Under his direction he hired Blackburn and the College focused entirely on the 1st XV. Development across the school lagged and hence the seed of discontent grew. Even former students of mine, and now players in the 2nd XV, spoke to me during their glory years that they felt ignored, just reserves for the 1st XV. Parents started to ask questions why only ONE team beat Joeys (1st XV) out of 17 games in 2012. I am told rugby across the school has improved which is good for all.

To the credit of Scots they did inspire other schools to lift their game in regards to size, strength and speed. They led the way and made AAGPS schoolboy rugby quasi-professional (leave that alone) It was only when other school started to match or use other tactics did Scots come back to the field. Plus, the "releasing" of two key sports staff at Scots helped (This was over the basketball scandal.)

In short, nothing new hear. Same old Scots, same old issues.

Now lets hear from Subbie and Rob.....I have poked the bear!
 
I am not usually one to blame the refs, however, I believe all games of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd XV comps the refs have not been up to standard. In my opinion the young academy refs who are doing games at Colts levels should be doing the majority of these games. Instead of old fellas my age whose career was behind them 15 years ago.
This is an interesting comment and I agree in that the refereeing has been inconsistent. Two observations; 1) there is a reluctance to police high tackles, shoulder charges and head contact consistently with the rules that are now in place. 2) I also think that there is an unfair expectation of the refs created by the professional game TMO's picking up every small and large indiscretion. I completely appreciate that the later may well explain the former. I don't know what the solution is however I think that part of the problem is the cross over with league where a higher contact in the norm and kids who aren't developing the correct skill-set now put themselves at a disadvantage later. Given the increasing size of some opens footballers it is a matter of time before a very serious injury occurs. If anyone wants to observe correct technique, watch Young, Fogarty and others tackle the rampaging New forwards last Saturday, they went consistently low with great impact and were not troubled by attackers offloading (as is the usual excuse for high hits).
 

schoolboykurtley

Bob McCowan (2)
This is an interesting comment and I agree in that the refereeing has been inconsistent. Two observations; 1) there is a reluctance to police high tackles, shoulder charges and head contact consistently with the rules that are now in place. 2) I also think that there is an unfair expectation of the refs created by the professional game TMO's picking up every small and large indiscretion. I completely appreciate that the later may well explain the former. I don't know what the solution is however I think that part of the problem is the cross over with league where a higher contact in the norm and kids who aren't developing the correct skill-set now put themselves at a disadvantage later. Given the increasing size of some opens footballers it is a matter of time before a very serious injury occurs. If anyone wants to observe correct technique, watch Young, Fogarty and others tackle the rampaging New forwards last Saturday, they went consistently low with great impact and were not troubled by attackers offloading (as is the usual excuse for high hits).
Hi OS, I do agree with your comment that refs should not be held to a professional standards. However, we must remember that it is elite but still JUNIOR rugby and therefore refs should always immediately be calling up high tackles and professional fouls more than they are at the moment. In my opinion the solution is just to keep calling and penalising and then eventually they must learn, as safety must be the main priority at this level of rugby with many of these young men still having a fruitful career ahead of them. Cheers SBK :)
 
O

Old High Boy

Guest
I am not usually one to blame the refs, however..

Here we go again, another armchair critic about to bash the refs, who probably knows nothing about the finer points in law, and will not offer anything constructive...

I believe all games of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd XV comps the refs have not been up to standard.

Completely disagree with this utter nonsense statement..

* The ref who did the J v New game has done Shute Shield games this season; he is a fine ref and a good bloke too. So he is good enough to referee the best club competition in Sydney, but not cope with a Schoolboy game?!
* The ref who did the View vs Scots game has been refereeing Schoolboy 1st XV games for some years now (a mixture of CAS and GPS), and if he is not doing schoolboy games, he regularly does 2nd grade in said Sydney comp; are you saying he is not up to the standard?! Joker was complaining about this ref in an earlier post, and has even posted snapshots from the game - I have not completed my review of this game yet, but I can already tell he is wide off the mark with his analysis - this I will address in another post in a day or so
* I cannot see who has done the Kings v Shore match until Cluch fixes its stream for this match..

The 2nd XV referees I have seen regularly on Cluch regularly do lower grades in Sydney Grade, or the highest level in Subbies. Some of them have done 1st XV in previous years - so they are not up to the standard?!

Granted the standard of refs does drop off significantly for 3rd XV from what I have seen this season...

In my opinion the young academy refs who are doing games at Colts levels should be doing the majority of these games.

So your solution is to have the Year 12 refs who are part of the SSS Academy referee all senior schoolboy matches?! Heavens above...

No SSS Academy referees do Colts level, they are still at school - and there is no other academy that I am aware of, so you have clearly made a statement without any knowledge of how the ref system operates, further eroding your statement's credibility.

Instead of old fellas my age whose career was behind them 15 years ag

Its not about the age, but having the necessary expertise to handle such matches - especially premiership deciders that often occur in the last round - you won't find any youngsters refereeing them, I assure you..


So you have offered nothing constructive, and have just verbally trashed us refs - what you should be doing is complete the necessary courses, go pass your level 1 and 2 accreditations, and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us active refs and do what we do - week-in-week out, season-after-season.

Only then you might just 'get it'...
 
Here we go again, another armchair critic about to bash the refs, who probably knows nothing about the finer points in law, and will not offer anything constructive...



Completely disagree with this utter nonsense statement..

* The ref who did the J v New game has done Shute Shield games this season; he is a fine ref and a good bloke too. So he is good enough to referee the best club competition in Sydney, but not cope with a Schoolboy game?!
* The ref who did the View vs Scots game has been refereeing Schoolboy 1st XV games for some years now (a mixture of CAS and GPS), and if he is not doing schoolboy games, he regularly does 2nd grade in said Sydney comp; are you saying he is not up to the standard?! Joker was complaining about this ref in an earlier post, and has even posted snapshots from the game - I have not completed my review of this game yet, but I can already tell he is wide off the mark with his analysis - this I will address in another post in a day or so
* I cannot see who has done the Kings v Shore match until Cluch fixes its stream for this match..

The 2nd XV referees I have seen regularly on Cluch regularly do lower grades in Sydney Grade, or the highest level in Subbies. Some of them have done 1st XV in previous years - so they are not up to the standard?!

Granted the standard of refs does drop off significantly for 3rd XV from what I have seen this season...



So your solution is to have the Year 12 refs who are part of the SSS Academy referee all senior schoolboy matches?! Heavens above...

No SSS Academy referees do Colts level, they are still at school - and there is no other academy that I am aware of, so you have clearly made a statement without any knowledge of how the ref system operates, further eroding your statement's credibility.



Its not about the age, but having the necessary expertise to handle such matches - especially premiership deciders that often occur in the last round - you won't find any youngsters refereeing them, I assure you..



So you have offered nothing constructive, and have just verbally trashed us refs - what you should be doing is complete the necessary courses, go pass your level 1 and 2 accreditations, and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us active refs and do what we do - week-in-week out, season-after-season.

Only then you might just 'get it'...
Mate you got him there. I did hear the referees in the 3rdXV comp for your mighty SBHS are of the highest quality.
 

schoolboykurtley

Bob McCowan (2)
Here we go again, another armchair critic about to bash the refs, who probably knows nothing about the finer points in law, and will not offer anything constructive...



Completely disagree with this utter nonsense statement..

* The ref who did the J v New game has done Shute Shield games this season; he is a fine ref and a good bloke too. So he is good enough to referee the best club competition in Sydney, but not cope with a Schoolboy game?!
* The ref who did the View vs Scots game has been refereeing Schoolboy 1st XV games for some years now (a mixture of CAS and GPS), and if he is not doing schoolboy games, he regularly does 2nd grade in said Sydney comp; are you saying he is not up to the standard?! Joker was complaining about this ref in an earlier post, and has even posted snapshots from the game - I have not completed my review of this game yet, but I can already tell he is wide off the mark with his analysis - this I will address in another post in a day or so
* I cannot see who has done the Kings v Shore match until Cluch fixes its stream for this match..

The 2nd XV referees I have seen regularly on Cluch regularly do lower grades in Sydney Grade, or the highest level in Subbies. Some of them have done 1st XV in previous years - so they are not up to the standard?!

Granted the standard of refs does drop off significantly for 3rd XV from what I have seen this season...



So your solution is to have the Year 12 refs who are part of the SSS Academy referee all senior schoolboy matches?! Heavens above...

No SSS Academy referees do Colts level, they are still at school - and there is no other academy that I am aware of, so you have clearly made a statement without any knowledge of how the ref system operates, further eroding your statement's credibility.



Its not about the age, but having the necessary expertise to handle such matches - especially premiership deciders that often occur in the last round - you won't find any youngsters refereeing them, I assure you..



So you have offered nothing constructive, and have just verbally trashed us refs - what you should be doing is complete the necessary courses, go pass your level 1 and 2 accreditations, and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us active refs and do what we do - week-in-week out, season-after-season.

Only then you might just 'get it'...
Hi mate, the SSS Academy has recently been cancelled for this year and I am unaware of the reason. I mean young men who have recently graduated from this years ago. I see fellas in their early 20s refereeing colts week in week out and doing a fantastic job but never see them on any schoolboys games only see the old fellas. If refs are up to the standard of elite junior rugby why are they not picking up on any of the crucial rules of junior rugby eg, high tackles, pro foul etc. I understand why we have so many people walk away from our game with the unsafe play I have seen in my last few weeks of watching. SBK.
 
O

Old High Boy

Guest
I did hear the referees in the 3rdXV comp for your mighty SBHS are of the highest quality.

Not from what I have seen - (especially the View vs Scots match earlier in the season, where they lost on the bell to a suspect PK)
 
O

Old High Boy

Guest
I understand why we have so many people walk away from our game with the unsafe play I have seen in my last few weeks of watching. SBK.

And the constant ref bashing - either on forums such as these, and definitely at the games themselves, is the main reason why our referee numbers are low - and will continue to be low unless players, coaches, and spectators pull their heads in..

I am yet to watch all of the main games yet, but do you know what constant theme I am seeing from all players, regardless of the school?

Them throwing their arms up in the air, complaining about a call they were on the wrong end of, or the one they didn't get.

And like I said in my earlier post - do the courses, and grab that whistle, and give us a hand instead of complaining...
 

Voldemort

Frank Row (1)
From what I have heard at the Shore vs Kings 3rd XV game on the weekend a Kings teacher was refereeing. I was disgusted when I heard this. SBK
I believe that the game was fair with Kings getting 2 yellow cards and having won 38 - 12,
Biased referee or not (I thought was fair), Kings were dominant on the field, with the second-half score being 24-0.
 

RuckitRory

Stan Wickham (3)
I believe that the game was fair with Kings getting 2 yellow cards and having won 38 - 12,
Biased referee or not (I thought was fair), Kings were dominant on the field, with the second-half score being 24-0.
The game was very even at half time (14-12). Both Kings yellow cards should have been red. One for cannonballing off the kick-off (no eyes for the ball) and the other for throwing punches. Shore was on the back foot in the second half after many tough decisions go against them. Would have been a very different game if an unbiased ref was allocated to the match.

RIR
 

RuckitRory

Stan Wickham (3)
On the back of the 3rd XV game which I just watched on Cluch TV. I have heard there were many referee complaints about the constant punching by the Kings 7. Seen throughout the whole game, he punched about four different kids, I think he will see himself punished really soon either by the GPS or Kings.
I noticed this as well R39. Hopefully someone says something and he is punished.
 

Ace Ventura

Ted Fahey (11)
Hello Ace
Nice to hear from another new supporter. Well I am new supporter, who became a teacher. So I am in a favourable position, having taught at numerous Independent boys schools to judge, such schools. Newington is indeed, a fabulous experience for both teachers, students and their parents.

Its good to hear that Rugby is on the comeback

Kind regards

B&W
"another New supporter"? - my blood runs cerise and blue, B&W. Just pleased to see such exemplary behaviour by the New boys.
 

Joker

Moderator
Staff member
"another New supporter"? - my blood runs cerise and blue, B&W. Just pleased to see such exemplary behaviour by the New boys.
as was I. Good bunch of lads
I enjoyed watching the Cluch end of game hand shakes showed the teams has a good respect (and friendship) with one another.
 

Voldemort

Frank Row (1)
The game was very even at half time (14-12). Both Kings yellow cards should have been red. One for cannonballing off the kick-off (no eyes for the ball) and the other for throwing punches. Shore was on the back foot in the second half after many tough decisions go against them. Would have been a very different game if an unbiased ref was allocated to the match.

RIR
Could have gone either way here. Yes, I agree the 7 should have gotten a red. However, it was the jersey punch that initiated his response in the first place, and he got punched from the side after.

Just on another note as well. There is a lot of debate surrounding the alleged headbutt by the Kings schoolboy in the 1st XV. Watching the footage I think it is quite clear he lead with the shoulder in response to the shoulder charge from the Shore boy. What are everyone's thoughts on this? I also heard from a few shore mothers that these boys are very good mates. At the end of the day, footy is a contact sport and they shook hands afterwards.

Play on,
Voldermort
 

Joker

Moderator
Staff member
Is anyone else getting this?

error.jpg
 
View attachment 14197

*I apologise for the quality

Now, voicing my concerns now has no impact on the game but this was a huge talking point in international rugby only last weekend and EUFF is right two big calls by the same ref regarding high contact. There was no better team at the end, muddy fields eroded the chance for any slick footy to be played however Fittler's try to take the lead was rather spectacular.

Obviously theres no TMO but NO penalty resulted from this contact despite the players, coaches and boys who were on the other side of the field who saw it clear as day.
Speaking as a referee sometimes we miss these things, we might not have the best view of it from where we are. We dont have access to the TMO etc... in 1stXV games we would be relying on our AR. People need to calm down it's not like we miss things on purpose.
 
Speaking as a referee sometimes we miss these things, we might not have the best view of it from where we are. We dont have access to the TMO etc... in 1stXV games we would be relying on our AR. People need to calm down it's not like we miss things on purpose.
What would stop the GPS implementing a further referee to be watching Cluchs stream and pointing out any foul play missed by referees. A 4th official for foul play?

Surely budget cannot be an explination.
 
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