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Subbies 2023!

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
(then become Blacktown or Knox and end up with 1 grade turning up if they were lucky)

And that can happen to anyone based usually on two factors (or a combination of):

1) Club honesty - Sometimes the executive try to polish the proverbial, and want the prestige of staying in a certain division. The players suffer and ultimately the club suffers.

2) Player honesty - the ducks might all be in a row, your coaches set, and preseason starts with a bang. Suddenly the playing group gets a better offer, or some form of disgruntlement breaks out and you're left high and dry.

It is all well and good to say that players should be straight up and down chaps who stick to their word, but none of us are perfect and the smallest issue in communication can snowball into something massive.

stop the general populace in engaging in a wider variety of leisure activities

^^^ This. I'm sure many clubs were covering their ears when lockdown was announced to end and they knew that overseas holidays were back on the agenda.
 

SubbiesVeteran

Herbert Moran (7)
Okay so should those clubs who have 4 grades then be “asked” to pay for extra insurance for a grade that can’t be provided in a division that “asks” for 4 Grades

never did I say that players couldn’t register but you see my point play 4 grades and colts
That’s 5 teams of insurance, which then pushes rego up for guys in those
Lower grades and clubs then lose them when they don’t play because teams that aren’t capable of fielding them get put in that division. so why persist with a model that clubs can’t meet anymore! It might allow them
To be more honest or become a more realistic goal

Halligans is not really a viable option, would should Lindfield who have a genuine 5s side take on the likes of Convicts who aren’t a Halligan side and belt everyone every week or play lower division clubs who want to try and win premierships and send their higher grade players down
 

WoodyWoodsman

Sydney Middleton (9)
Some suggestions for the Subbies board from the Woodsman:
1. Consider how many grades you expect in each division. Given that numbers in rugby are down across the board, reduce these.
2. Reward clubs who do the right thing. Reward clubs who move the proverbial needle. Don’t reward clubs who don’t deserve it.
3. Fight to reduce the costs to clubs. The levies, the insurance make it difficult for clubs.
4. hand over the pies from the four’n’twenty sponsorship. It might not be a lot but it’s a gift fund raiser for some clubs.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Okay so should those clubs who have 4 grades then be “asked” to pay for extra insurance for a grade that can’t be provided in a division that “asks” for 4 Grades

If they don't play those games, then they won't be paying insurance. Halligan Cup don't pay anything until they reach 4 games, then it is pro rata.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Some suggestions for the Subbies board from the Woodsman:
1. Consider how many grades you expect in each division. Given that numbers in rugby are down across the board, reduce these.
2. Reward clubs who do the right thing. Reward clubs who move the proverbial needle. Don’t reward clubs who don’t deserve it.
3. Fight to reduce the costs to clubs. The levies, the insurance make it difficult for clubs.
4. hand over the pies from the four’n’twenty sponsorship. It might not be a lot but it’s a gift fund raiser for some clubs.

All sensible suggestions. Let me comment on what I've observed and participated in at Board and CCR level:

1. Numbers of Grades - this has been done wherever possible. Not sure how many more times I have to repeat "The Board is attemping to make a competition that is even in both numbers and strength, in order to provide an appropriate level of competition for everyone, and ensure the longevity of clubs in Suburban Rugby".

It is difficult to make judgements with 100% accuracy in January when registration doesn't open until later in the year, but we've put in a lot of work early to try and get this right.

Mostly you're going with a club's word and evidence from previous seasons (or discussions like the CCR had from October through to the end of the year). And then sometimes pride gets in the way no matter what the Board does.

Colts is the main sticking point and as you'd know from discussions here and from guys like @Prodigy , that is difficult to get and maintain unless you've got a fairly robust feeder system. Graduating juniors into seniors is definitely something I've raised on numerous occasions; it needs broader focus you're then talking to schools associations as well as SJRU and SRU about what is appropriate for everyone.

The expected value of Colts is to then feed your Seniors but it doesn't always work like that. There have been instances where promising Colts in higher divisions are actively recruited by other clubs.

We tried Colts again this year, and failed. I need to put in a lot of work at local rugby schools and junior clubs, as well as picking off league boys who aren't going to make an U20 side in the NRL or its feeder comps. Help from the NSWRU DOs would be appreciated as I've mentioned above.


2. Rewarding clubs is a broad street - what is the reward for fulfilling an obligation? Staying in the Division you want? Where do we set the bar? Definitely we're past the days of punishing clubs, because that would just result in more people walking away from the game.

Do we reward Mosman for having so many players every year? I don't think they really need it ;)


3. Club Costs - the Board does its best to keep a lid on prices in consultation with NSWRU and RA. Registration for Grade and Colts hasn't changed significantly in a long time. That is the only cost that Subbies directly controls outside of annual club affiliation.

Insurance is determined at levels above Subbies, and alternatives have been investigated with no benefit at this point. That may change in future - perhaps not the cost, but the service received and accessibility.

It is worth noting that we and SRU are the only Unions that got a per-Grade cost plan organised with the insurers; everyone else is per-player and requires them to pay at the point of registration to be covered - can you imagine that for Subbies? Nobody takes the field unless they're paid up. You'd kill the comp in a week.

Under our system, if you register 30 players per grade, insurance is a bargain. If you only get 15, it is a ripoff. IF the players pay... And I think it is about $88 per player for insurance under the player-pays system, but I might be thinking about womens rugby XVs there.

The levies are a whole other matter and questions are being asked at Board level as to what we are getting for our money from the higher ups.


4. Pies - agreed. No further notes from this front rower.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
4 games and then you pay for the season.

That's what's I recall reading (Div notes?) but I discussed it with Tim one year when we breached the limit, and he said it would be pro-rated as some teams were only just over.
 

Waterloo_Ned

Herbert Moran (7)
Tim has confirmed we are good to go.

Div 1: (9 Clubs - Starts March 25)
1 - Blue Mountains, 2 - Colleagues, 3 - Drummoyne, 4 - Forest, 5 - Hunters Hill, 6 - Mosman, 7 - Petersham, 8 - St Pats, 9 - Waverley

Div 2: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Briars, 2 - Hawkesbury Valley, 3 - Hills, 4 - Lindfield, 5 - Newport, 6 - UNSW, 7 - Knox* (May swap D3)

Div 3: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Barker, 2 - Beecroft, 3 - Epping, 4 - Harlequins, 5 - Manly, 6 - Old Ignatians, 7 - Harbour* (May swap D2)

Div 4 is overloaded with clubs. I don't know if this has been arranged. Most clubs are looking to grow from 1 team clubs.
 

Denistone_Dennis

Chris McKivat (8)
Tim has confirmed we are good to go.

Div 1: (9 Clubs - Starts March 25)
1 - Blue Mountains, 2 - Colleagues, 3 - Drummoyne, 4 - Forest, 5 - Hunters Hill, 6 - Mosman, 7 - Petersham, 8 - St Pats, 9 - Waverley

Div 2: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Briars, 2 - Hawkesbury Valley, 3 - Hills, 4 - Lindfield, 5 - Newport, 6 - UNSW, 7 - Knox* (May swap D3)

Div 3: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Barker, 2 - Beecroft, 3 - Epping, 4 - Harlequins, 5 - Manly, 6 - Old Ignatians, 7 - Harbour* (May swap D2)

Div 4 is overloaded with clubs. I don't know if this has been arranged. Most clubs are looking to grow from 1 team clubs.
Trusted source no doubt?
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Div 4 is overloaded with clubs. I don't know if this has been arranged. Most clubs are looking to grow from 1 team clubs.

Which is a good thing. Div 4 should really be 3 Grades and Div 5 should be 2 Grades. Everyone in Div 6 should be aspirational with their recruitment, otherwise you place yourself in the risky position of simply not having numbers one year.

I look at Savers who, for decades, didn't care about being more than 1 team. Now they're on the up, forging links with local juniors so they can strengthen their pathways. They're in a challenging area of Sydney to grow, with Marlins & Rats just up the road, and several Div 1 & 2 clubs not that far away either. Takes some doing.
 

The ultimate ressie

Herbert Moran (7)
Tim has confirmed we are good to go.

Div 1: (9 Clubs - Starts March 25)
1 - Blue Mountains, 2 - Colleagues, 3 - Drummoyne, 4 - Forest, 5 - Hunters Hill, 6 - Mosman, 7 - Petersham, 8 - St Pats, 9 - Waverley

Div 2: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Briars, 2 - Hawkesbury Valley, 3 - Hills, 4 - Lindfield, 5 - Newport, 6 - UNSW, 7 - Knox* (May swap D3)

Div 3: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Barker, 2 - Beecroft, 3 - Epping, 4 - Harlequins, 5 - Manly, 6 - Old Ignatians, 7 - Harbour* (May swap D2)

Div 4 is overloaded with clubs. I don't know if this has been arranged. Most clubs are looking to grow from 1 team clubs.
Considering ST Pats have advertised a trial against HH on the 1st of April I am of the belief your source is smoking the same stuff as the judge who scored Volk v Islam a 49-46
 

footy_footy

Sydney Middleton (9)
I think you’ll find Mosman and Colleagues are also trialling against each other on 1/4/23, as will a number of Div 1 clubs.

As I understand it, the Division 1 clubs have been presented two proposals with the season commencing on 15 April 2023. The respective proposals try and fit the square peg in the round hole with 9 teams and only a finite number of weeks for the season.
 

Cuz

Herbert Moran (7)
View attachment 15155
REGISTRATIONS NOW OPEN!

Registrations are now open for this years Macarthur 10’s tournament.

With 3 competitions in this years format & $12,000 prize money up for grabs be sure to lock in your teams spot in the 2023 Macarthur 10’s!

Register through Rugby XPLORER - follow the link below and search Macarthur 10’s to sign up

Link - https://myaccount.rugbyxplorer.com.au/competition-search...

Please note registrations close on the 11/02/2023
Date moved to the 4th March due to ground conditions. If that helps anyone with preseason games....
 

Heure

Peter Burge (5)
Tim has confirmed we are good to go.

Div 1: (9 Clubs - Starts March 25)1 - Blue Mountains, 2 - Colleagues, 3 - Drummoyne, 4 - Forest, 5 - Hunters Hill, 6 - Mosman, 7 - Petersham, 8 - St Pats, 9 - Waverley

Div 2: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Briars, 2 - Hawkesbury Valley, 3 - Hills, 4 - Lindfield, 5 - Newport, 6 - UNSW, 7 - Knox* (May swap D3)

Div 3: (7 Clubs - Starts April 1)
1 - Barker, 2 - Beecroft, 3 - Epping, 4 - Harlequins, 5 - Manly, 6 - Old Ignatians, 7 - Harbour* (May swap D2)

Div 4 is overloaded with clubs. I don't know if this has been arranged. Most clubs are looking to grow from 1 team clubs.
Disaster.
Board is dominated by Div 1 clubs. Drain the swamp.
Agreed - spineless.
 

Eastcoast

Bill Watson (15)
Ive been told Div 1 will commence on the 15th after the Easter Break. Looking forward to enjoying a cold beverage on Saturday afternoons making astute observations about opposition players abilities.

Still unsure about all these odd team comps though. Creates too many weeks off and generally not when the club needs them. Your bye week you could have 90% of your club available and then the next week down to 50% when you have to roll out full teams.
How much longer will the lower divs survive ?
 
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