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Wallabies 2023

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Does this not provide support to the argument he has lost his composure as a 10 in the final stages of a match?

This is precisely the point I am making, I'd rather chance our arm than accept another valiant loss.

I'd much rather try something and back a young player through adversity. We need to get better at allowing rookies to fail on the pitch and fostering that as a learning experience. Cooper has shown that it's possible to get better from hardships and we haven't done that with many other players. Foley is a known quantity and we shouldn't reward the level of mediocrity that has been established since 2015. There's almost never been a larger sample size to learn from.

We should have beaten NZ but the referee made a ridiculous decision that was unprecedented. Foley was at fault for wasting time but it's really hard to blame him for the loss. He'd also put us in a position where we should have won and the last penalty kick for touch wasn't taken any more slowly than several others during the match but the referee suddenly decided the laws should change at that point.

As I said we were beating France when he was replaced with 10 minutes to go. I'm not sure how he can be blamed for us conceding a try to lose it.

He levelled the scores with less than 10 minutes to go against Ireland but we gave up a late penalty to lose.

Cooper showed it was possible to come back as a more mature player and play well for the Wallabies in 2021. It was arguably better than a lot of his previous test rugby because he didn't try and put the whole game on his own back. He just tried to do his job. What do you mean it's possible to get better from hardships? He was recalled because he had been playing decent rugby overseas and we were desperate for an experienced option.

If Cooper is first choice, the issue with Gordon is that if he was required he's being thrown in with no preparation. I don't think that is allowing him to fail, it's putting him in a position where basically the only outcome is to fail.
 

Sword of Justice

Nev Cottrell (35)
I totally disagree that the only outcome for Gordon is to fail or that he would necessarily have no preparation into the world cup. Why couldn't we pick him in games leading up? Recent winners have done significant experimenting prior to the championships.

Is there a decent chance he'd fail? Yes, but I'd say we have no reason at all to believe that Foley will be adequate in that position to win a world cup.
 
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qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Eddie Jones will have Quade and Kerevi for the Barbarians (against Korobiete) match later this month

Almost feels like we're cheating getting them extra games against quality opposition.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I totally disagree that the only outcome for Gordon is to fail or that he would necessarily have no preparation into the world cup. Why couldn't we pick him in games leading up? Recent winners have done significant experimenting prior to the championships.
Recent winners used which rookie young 10s?
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
He wouldn't be a rookie if he was selected prior to the world cup would he?

My point being I'd rather we didn't select a player who has a 5/18 record at international level in the last 5 years.

Anyway rule 10 to myself.
I don't think you lose your rookie status in 1 game, it's generally a term of a year.

Why on earth are singling Foley out of for that record? Not as if he's directly responsible for every loss in the last 5 years. There are probably players with worse records who are guaranteed selections.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
South Africa v Australia
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Saturday, 8 July, 2023
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (NZR)
Assistant Referee 1: Paul Williams (NZR)
Assistant Referee 2: Andrea Piardi (FIR)
TMO: Brendon Pickerill (NZR)
Australia v Argentina
CommBank Stadium, Sydney
Saturday, 15 July, 2023
Referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)
Assistant Referee 1: Paul Williams (NZR)
Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman (NZR)
TMO: Marius Jonker (SARU)
Australia v New Zealand
Melbourne Cricket Ground, Melbourne
Saturday, 29 July, 2023
Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Karl Dickson (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: Christophe Ridley (RFU)
TMO: Tom Foley (RFU)
New Zealand v Australia
Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
Saturday, 5 August, 2023
Referee: Karl Dickson (RFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: Christophe Ridley (RFU)
TMO: Marius Jonker (SARU)
France v Australia
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
Sunday, 27 August, 2023
Referee: Luke Pearce (RFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Christophe Ridley (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: Craig Evans (WRU)
TMO: Tom Foley (RFU)

Better to get O'Keeffe in an unwinnable Test. We have a very good record under Wayne Barnes. Karl Dickson is a totally out-of-form ref; he had an absolute shocker last week and is generally known as a homer. No Raynal in any capacity for any of our matches. We escape Joy Neville thankfully although do have the 2nd worst TMO in Jonker.
 
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dru

David Wilson (68)
I don't see why we can't run Quade at 10 and Gordon at 22 in the TRC. Quade likely is better not running the 80, Gordon could use 20/30 at the tail.

I'm not specifically against Foley, but I'd take either/or Quade/Foley. If Quade isn't up to it, start Foley and leave Quade in Japan. Thence Carter and Hodge filling in at utility after that.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I totally disagree that the only outcome for Gordon is to fail or that he would necessarily have no preparation into the world cup. Why couldn't we pick him in games leading up? Recent winners have done significant experimenting prior to the championships.

We have four tests before we pick a squad and the player most likely to be our starting 10 has played a total of 100 minutes of rugby this year.

I expect Cooper will play almost every minute of the lead up tests.
 

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
We have four tests before we pick a squad and the player most likely to be our starting 10 has played a total of 100 minutes of rugby this year.

I expect Cooper will play almost every minute of the lead up tests.
I want QC (Quade Cooper) to play against the ABs and win the Bledisloe. If he does that, he’s the man.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
What would it say about Eddie Jones?

The reality is we play 4 tests before the RWC squad is selected. It's pretty reasonable to think that isn't a sufficient amount of time to bring in an uncapped player to play 10.
BH, I think it would be a form of madness to leave our best young 10 who could impact the result at home. The fact that he hasn't been capped shouldn't be an issue and he could get a couple of runs from the bench and if he fails bring in Foley but it is a tactic that almost certainly confirms that Eddie is looking for experience and not talent. And that is exactly what I was saying about all you need to know about Eddie.
I think we will make the semi's but that will be it without some X factors. BTW I would be happy with that as I had us down as qtr finals and gone.
The chances of winning it are remote if we stick with what we have already seen and that will be the case unless Hamish opens up to more Internationals.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
the referee suddenly decided the laws should change at that point
BH, all referees change the timeing at the end of a game, the impact on the opposition is great and ref's know it. Mind you I thought that was bizarre as he should have spoken to Foley about being quick at the end of the game. Foley lost us that game.....
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Eddie is looking for experience and not talent. And that is exactly what I was saying about all you need to know about Eddie.

Which coach/team goes to a RWC and isn't interested in experience? There's an incredible correlation between experience and success at RWCs.

It wouldn't be a question of not being interested in an obvious talent. It's entirely around preparation time.
 
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