Wallabies 2023

[qwerty51]

I hope you’re not right- they’re both such negative selections and have been a large part of Australia‘s mediocrity over the last 5 years.

I only see upside with 22. C Gordon and 23. Petaia - assuming Quade Cooper is playing 10 (if not Foley starts).

Why do people single out certain players for this and not others? You wouldn't write this about Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Hooper, Nic White, Kerevi etc.

 

[Sword of Justice]

Why do people single out certain players for this and not others? You wouldn't write this about Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Hooper, Nic White, Kerevi etc.

Because people watched the games and didn't find the players you mention to have contributed greatly to the mediocrity.

Though I am not as harsh on Hodge as others, I think there's more upside selecting others.

 

[qwerty51]

The other players definitely have more minutes over the last 5 years than Hodge & Foley.

 

[Braveheart81]

Because people watched the games and didn't find the players you mention to have contributed greatly to the mediocrity.

Though I am not as harsh on Hodge as others, I think there's more upside selecting others.

It's pretty wild to suggest that the players selected in the 22 and 23 jerseys are a significant contributor to the Wallabies results over the last five years.

 

[Sword of Justice]

It's pretty wild to suggest that the players selected in the 22 and 23 jerseys are a significant contributor to the Wallabies results over the last five years.

They haven't always been selected in those jerseys in the last 5 years and in reference to this discussion my belief is that we can be much more optimistic with our selections than Foley especially, who is a known quantity.

 

[qwerty51]

For 2024 sure, but I think it's ludicrious to suggest Foley is a negative selection to Gordon right now, known quality is what you want at RWC time.
All you hear about is how important experience is at a RWC. Ireland are anxious over Sexton's availability, no Springbok fan wants Libbok or Willemse over Pollard.

SA didn't turnaround their form in 2019 by being bold - at all.

 

[eastman]

Why do people single out certain players for this and not others? You wouldn't write this about Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Hooper, Nic White, Kerevi etc.

Honestly I judge this from performances across both Super Rugby and in Tests.

The players you mentioned are the top performers across Super Rugby and are generally strong in Test match rugby. Whites early test career wasn’t great but has improved since he came back from the UK.

Foley was very strong in Super Rugby from 2013-2015, and had a number of good performances in the Wallaby jersey (that level diminished over time). Hodge has never been a good test player or dominant Super Rugby player- the Melbourne Rebels should have demanded more from their highest paid player over the last 5 years.

 

[eastman]

For 2024 sure, but I think it's ludicrious to suggest Foley is a negative selection to Gordon right now, known quality is what you want at RWC time.
All you hear about is how important experience is at a RWC. Ireland are anxious over Sexton's availability, no Springbok fan wants Libbok or Willemse over Pollard.

SA didn't turnaround their form in 2019 by being bold - at all.

Sexton is still clearly first choice- Foley isn’t.

 

[qwerty51]

Sexton is still clearly first choice- Foley isn’t.

The point is they're anxious over him because they don't have a Foley. Their next 10s are inexperienced at Test level.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hodge has never been a good test player

I think Hodge has been a very reliable test player.

I certainly don't think he's a starter now but I think it's highly likely he makes the RWC squad and he's a very strong chance to be in our best 23 precisely because he covers a bunch of positions well.

I think the 22 and 23 jersey largely come down to who provides the least downside across jerseys 10-15 in the event that they are required to play through injury. When Beale was available and a better player he was a great option for 23 because he had versatility as well as the ability to impact a game. It's hard to see another player we have that can play a similar role now.

As I said before, I agree Petaia has more upside for the back three but I think he's got significantly more downside in the centres.

Sexton is still clearly first choice- Foley isn’t.

He's quite likely second choice though particularly when the other option is uncapped and we have very few games to prepare and will want to get us many minutes into the first choice player as possible.

 

[Sword of Justice]

For 2024 sure, but I think it's ludicrious to suggest Foley is a negative selection to Gordon right now, known quality is what you want at RWC time.
All you hear about is how important experience is at a RWC. Ireland are anxious over Sexton's availability, no Springbok fan wants Libbok or Willemse over Pollard.

SA didn't turnaround their form in 2019 by being bold - at all.

Those are false equivalencies because Foley has never demonstrated the levels of play of a Sexton or a Pollard. His experience only shows that his performances are not adequate to lead a top tier team to the most important trophy in Rugby, in my opinion. I would dearly love to be proven wrong, I would paint a mural of him on the front of my house if we won this world cup [with him as starting 10], but from what I have seen I don't believe I will be. It also leads me to believe we can be more optimistic in our selections, and given I don't think he will lead us to a world cup win I am not afraid of picking another 10 as a squad member to fill in if needed.

Ultimately it's just our views as punters that inform these opinions which is why this conversation is so circular and why I will once again rule 10 myself at this point.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Those are false equivalencies because Foley has never demonstrated the levels of play of a Sexton or a Pollard. His experience only shows that his performances are not adequate to lead a top tier team to the most important trophy in Rugby, in my opinion. I would dearly love to be proven wrong, I would paint a mural of him on the front of my house if we won this world cup [with him as starting 10], but from what I have seen I don't believe I will be. It also leads me to believe we can be more optimistic in our selections, and given I don't think he will lead us to a world cup win I am not afraid of picking another 10 as a squad member to fill in if needed.

Ultimately it's just our views as punters that inform these opinions which is why this conversation is so circular and why I will once again rule 10 myself at this point.

I see this going in circles but just can't help myself.

He did make the final in 2015. Something no Irish team has come near. He's won at Club level and been good in pressure situations at both Club and Test level. I think he is past it but I can see how Eddie sees a guy who he knows what he'll get and has a history of high performance in big moments.

 

[LeCheese]

Surprised more of the Qld faithful aren't suggesting Flook as a utility option. Would be a debutant but he can cover the Centres and Wing. Keen to see how he physically keeps developing over the next couple of years.

I wouldn't be surprised if Flook gets some time in TRC to suss him out as a WC utility option.

As TSR said, it might be a year too early, but it's hard to deny that he's been one of the most consistently solid utilities from Super this season.

 

[Wilson]

I expect the first training squads to be pretty large and I won't form too much opinion from inclusions as opposed to any big omissions.

Surprised more of the Qld faithful aren't suggesting Flook as a utility option. Would be a debutant but he can cover the Centres and Wing. Keen to see how he physically keeps developing over the next couple of years.

He's probably been in and out a bit too much with injuries to push his claim in the second half of the season, but I would have him ahead of Perese.

 

[wamberal]

I see this going in circles but just can't help myself.

He did make the final in 2015. Something no Irish team has come near. He's won at Club level and been good in pressure situations at both Club and Test level. I think he is past it but I can see how Eddie sees a guy who he knows what he'll get and has a history of high performance in big moments.

Ireland had us beaten in the quarter finals in 1991, we won at the last second. It really could have gone either way. If they had won they probably would not have beaten the ABs I guess. We had Campo, he was on fire that game.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

a 6:2 bench split always worries me, I would always prefer 5:3 and then you can have McDermott/Carter/Hodge. But then 5 forwards becomes difficult. 3 front rowers is a given plus Samu so then you must have another second rower (Phillip/Rodda). Doesn't leave any option for McReight/Gleeson etc. a 6/3 bench would be nice

 

[TSR]

I see this going in circles but just can't help myself.

He did make the final in 2015. Something no Irish team has come near. He's won at Club level and been good in pressure situations at both Club and Test level. I think he is past it but I can see how Eddie sees a guy who he knows what he'll get and has a history of high performance in big moments.

He’s kicked some good goals. He’s also missed plenty of easy ones including on last years EOYT. He’s had some solid performances in Gold. And he’s also been below average regularly.

He’s certainly not demonstrated he’s a reliable performer under pressure IMO and I don’t personally agree his recent form warrants confidence in him to win test matches.

 

[Misunderstood fan]

For 2024 sure, but I think it's ludicrious to suggest Foley is a negative selection to Gordon right now, known quality is what you want at RWC time.
All you hear about is how important experience is at a RWC. Ireland are anxious over Sexton's availability, no Springbok fan wants Libbok or Willemse over Pollard.

SA didn't turnaround their form in 2019 by being bold - at all.

On a sniff I think Gordon will get the go over Foley. If EJ (Eddie Jones) goes that way I can see why but it’s a RWC year and experience will be key particularly on the return players from injury. If Tupou, Bell, Kerevi, QC (Quade Cooper), are all 100% I’d probably go Gordon, if not push Gordon to number 3 selection and see if there is room in the travelling team. He can be on standby but thinking he can be the big difference in the pool games.

 

[Doritos Day]

Forget the bench, Petaia should be starting on the wing.

 

[RebelYell]

White, 2 of Lonergan/Tate/Jake
Quade, Bernard
Ikitau, Samu, Foketi
Marika, Wright, Kellaway, Petaia, Nawaqanitawase, Hodge

Hard to see them going much outside of that. Gordon, Flook, Vunivalu, Paisami, Perese, JOC (James O'Connor), Pietsch only bolters I could envisage.