Le Tour
- Thread starter Jethro Tah
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Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Depends if they wait or not. They didn't wait at the Giro. Stage 2 Wiggins crashes (with the whole of Team GROUND). Stage three Team GROUND crashes as a team again and brings down Evans. Leakygas and a sprinters team (HTC-Columbia?) drive the remainder and Evans loses the jersey.
I felt like they should have waited for Schleck though, but it's an each way bet. When Ulrich waited for Armstrong (or vice versa?) one of them was brought down by hitting a spectator's bag.
But, to be fair, Schleck and Saxo had it coming. Saxo neutralised stage 2 because Schleck 1 and Schleck 2 got hammered on the Stockeu oil incident, and were well over 4 minutes+ back at some stage. They rode slowly, yet didn't wait for other GC contenders once the Schlecks were there like VDV (who had to withdraw anyway from injury). Stage 7 or 8 Schleck the elder hits a crashing Tony Marting in a cobbled area and stops nearly the entire peloton whilst Cancellara drives away the Schlecklet from the yellow jersey. No waiting there either. Also note the yellow jersey punctured twice late on that stage and no-one but his team waited, although in this case the yellow wasn't a GC contender.
I would bet that Contador would not get any favours from Saxo if they could drive it home.
Besides, it's a little bemusing that the MJ gets special treatment. In the Veulta last year Evans was sitting second overall and punctured on the final climb of a MTF stage, and all the favourits merrily rode away from him.
I felt like they should have waited for Schleck though, but it's an each way bet. When Ulrich waited for Armstrong (or vice versa?) one of them was brought down by hitting a spectator's bag.
But, to be fair, Schleck and Saxo had it coming. Saxo neutralised stage 2 because Schleck 1 and Schleck 2 got hammered on the Stockeu oil incident, and were well over 4 minutes+ back at some stage. They rode slowly, yet didn't wait for other GC contenders once the Schlecks were there like VDV (who had to withdraw anyway from injury). Stage 7 or 8 Schleck the elder hits a crashing Tony Marting in a cobbled area and stops nearly the entire peloton whilst Cancellara drives away the Schlecklet from the yellow jersey. No waiting there either. Also note the yellow jersey punctured twice late on that stage and no-one but his team waited, although in this case the yellow wasn't a GC contender.
I would bet that Contador would not get any favours from Saxo if they could drive it home.
Besides, it's a little bemusing that the MJ gets special treatment. In the Veulta last year Evans was sitting second overall and punctured on the final climb of a MTF stage, and all the favourits merrily rode away from him.
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
Final call for people that want to taste 10 french wines and 3 cheeses taken from the route of the Tour tomorrow night. Champagne, Loire, Sancerre, Burgundy, Bordeaux all getting a run. Cyclo and Lindo in attendance. 2 more and we could have a factional meeting and start a movement to oust Scarfy. Just kidding.
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
Contador has apparently come out with an apology on youtube somewhere and is back friends with Schleck.
Although highly unlikely, how's this for a conspiracy theory - Schleck feels buggered then sees Contador about to attack so he "accidently" slides his chain hoping to guilt Contador into easing up on the pedals. I'm not saying that's what happened or that Schleck would cheat but just putting it out there as a what if.
Per what Ash said, it's a GC thing. No way would the sprinters pull up mid charge for the line if one of them just happened to slide a chain.
Although highly unlikely, how's this for a conspiracy theory - Schleck feels buggered then sees Contador about to attack so he "accidently" slides his chain hoping to guilt Contador into easing up on the pedals. I'm not saying that's what happened or that Schleck would cheat but just putting it out there as a what if.
Per what Ash said, it's a GC thing. No way would the sprinters pull up mid charge for the line if one of them just happened to slide a chain.
Well, with the sprint that Schleck put in to make up the time up the climb, I think your theory is cactus PT, not to mention the mind control he would've needed over his chain to make it happen
It's hard to compare different incidences, and as Ash points out, no-one waits for punctures.
I think it was the way Schleck looked to have been breaking away, and that Contador must have seen the chain off as he passed that has pissed off the fans. ITV4 interviewed the riders at the start line the next day and most thought Contador was in the right.
By the way, ITV4 do a great 1 hr magazine show every day here http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=tour de france 2010 highlights
Can those outside pomlandia access?
It's hard to compare different incidences, and as Ash points out, no-one waits for punctures.
I think it was the way Schleck looked to have been breaking away, and that Contador must have seen the chain off as he passed that has pissed off the fans. ITV4 interviewed the riders at the start line the next day and most thought Contador was in the right.
By the way, ITV4 do a great 1 hr magazine show every day here http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=tour de france 2010 highlights
Can those outside pomlandia access?
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
UK only for ITV online.
What other unwritten rules of the peleton are there? Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall hearing the following from Sherwin and Ligget over the years:
- the yellow jersey cannot be attacked on the last days ride to Paris (hence the tradition of drinking champagne whilst riding)
- the riders (sprinters and their lead out men) pulling up the rear on the big climbs are to stick together regardless of team to form a big enough group so as to avoid the time elimination ruling
- cash prizes awarded throughout the race (i.e. each red dot or green jersey point earnt gets about €500 or so) go to the team kity despite being awarded to the individual riders
- any others?
What other unwritten rules of the peleton are there? Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall hearing the following from Sherwin and Ligget over the years:
- the yellow jersey cannot be attacked on the last days ride to Paris (hence the tradition of drinking champagne whilst riding)
- the riders (sprinters and their lead out men) pulling up the rear on the big climbs are to stick together regardless of team to form a big enough group so as to avoid the time elimination ruling
- cash prizes awarded throughout the race (i.e. each red dot or green jersey point earnt gets about €500 or so) go to the team kity despite being awarded to the individual riders
- any others?
Nusadan
Chilla Wilson (44)
Reckon this year's Tour is tough?
They did it much tougher early last century:
http://www.economist.com/node/16626220?story_id=16626220&fsrc=rss
Also look at the cyclists in the 1942 Tour....
http://www.cyberus.ca/~turbo/TURBO/1942_TdF.html
They did it much tougher early last century:
http://www.economist.com/node/16626220?story_id=16626220&fsrc=rss
Also look at the cyclists in the 1942 Tour....
http://www.cyberus.ca/~turbo/TURBO/1942_TdF.html
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Some of the other unwritten rules are that you do not attack in a feed zone,
and you do not attack whilst the leader of the race is taking a nature break.
Another general rule is that if a team mate is up the road, you don't attack or drive the pace on the front. Exceptions are somtimes made if it's a domestique up the road and the leader has the opportunity to attack, or the person up the road had no chance of winning anyway.
Plus if you're in a break or a reduced selection, then if it's not a mountain you are expected to do a share of the work.
All price money is generally added up and divided equally to everyone on the team. This is because the domestiques generally slave their ass off for the team leader with no hope of earning prize money for themselves. (Unless you're John Gadret, who rode past his team leader - who had a puncture - and refused to hand over a wheel, despite being ordered to by his DS.)
Additionally, in stage races it is the resonsibility of the team with the leader of the race to set the tempo of chasing pack. For example, Schleck has the yellow, so Saxo set the pace. They generally should keep the pace high enough such that the break can be reeled in, if any other team can be bothered to lead the chase (eg the sprinters teams on a flat stage).
In the Tour of Qatar earlier in the year Team SKY (should be called team ground for the way they like to crash as a team) had the race leader but refused to put their men on the front to lead the peloton early in the stage. There was a war of words that resulted in SKY trying to retaliate by driving hard through a feed zone so most of the peloton couldn't get their food, and then in a windy part SKY rode in the middle of the road to force the rest into the gutter due to the echolons. As a result, the rest of the peloton waited for the SKY race leader to take a nature break on the side of the road and they attack en masse, and nearly the entire SKY team finished a few minutes back on the peloton. Boasson-Hagen of SKY would've won the race otherwise.
and you do not attack whilst the leader of the race is taking a nature break.
Another general rule is that if a team mate is up the road, you don't attack or drive the pace on the front. Exceptions are somtimes made if it's a domestique up the road and the leader has the opportunity to attack, or the person up the road had no chance of winning anyway.
Plus if you're in a break or a reduced selection, then if it's not a mountain you are expected to do a share of the work.
All price money is generally added up and divided equally to everyone on the team. This is because the domestiques generally slave their ass off for the team leader with no hope of earning prize money for themselves. (Unless you're John Gadret, who rode past his team leader - who had a puncture - and refused to hand over a wheel, despite being ordered to by his DS.)
Additionally, in stage races it is the resonsibility of the team with the leader of the race to set the tempo of chasing pack. For example, Schleck has the yellow, so Saxo set the pace. They generally should keep the pace high enough such that the break can be reeled in, if any other team can be bothered to lead the chase (eg the sprinters teams on a flat stage).
In the Tour of Qatar earlier in the year Team SKY (should be called team ground for the way they like to crash as a team) had the race leader but refused to put their men on the front to lead the peloton early in the stage. There was a war of words that resulted in SKY trying to retaliate by driving hard through a feed zone so most of the peloton couldn't get their food, and then in a windy part SKY rode in the middle of the road to force the rest into the gutter due to the echolons. As a result, the rest of the peloton waited for the SKY race leader to take a nature break on the side of the road and they attack en masse, and nearly the entire SKY team finished a few minutes back on the peloton. Boasson-Hagen of SKY would've won the race otherwise.
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
Thanks for the info Ash. Tour of Qatar sounded eventful. Contador or Schleck for yellow in Paris? I would think Schleck needs at least 1.5 minutes heading into the TT to have any chance so Contador for mind.
Of all the days, it's Tourmalet and both France2 live online and Iraq Goals coverage not working for me. Bugger !! Love Tourmalet, that's where I go skiing in Feb of most years, based in Bareges where the bikes are just about to go through. Sastre gave it a shot but didn't have the legs. Look out for Boasson Hagen for the future, 6th for the green jersey and going well in the Pyrenees.
Of all the days, it's Tourmalet and both France2 live online and Iraq Goals coverage not working for me. Bugger !! Love Tourmalet, that's where I go skiing in Feb of most years, based in Bareges where the bikes are just about to go through. Sastre gave it a shot but didn't have the legs. Look out for Boasson Hagen for the future, 6th for the green jersey and going well in the Pyrenees.
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
Well done Andy for the stage win and well done Alberto for keeping up. Me thinks the Spaniard has the yellow in the bag now unless he has a shocker in the TT. The weather is forecast to be fine so he should be ok. I am not familiar with Sanchez but Menchov is crap at TT so I wouldn't expect him to overtake to get 3rd on the podium. The fight for the green jersey should be exciting and hopefully the drug rumours surrounding Petacchi are unfounded. I am signing off now for a long weekend away so will miss the Tour finish. Knowing my luck the crackberry internet reception will be crap so won't know the result or the Wobs fortunes till Monday night.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I would expect Contador to take at least 2 minutes out of Schleck in the TT, unless Andy pulls out the TT of his life. This TT is long, and not very technical (Contador likes the technical TTs as he uses his acceleration from corners very well) or hilly, so it's not good for either Contador or Schleck, but it still favours Contador over Schleck significantly. This kind of TT really favours guys like Bert Grabsh, but he'll be too tired from doing all the work for HTC Columbia. Cancellara is another favourite, but he'll probably be too tired from doing work for Saxo.
Menchov I would actually rate as a very good TT, better than Sanchez anyway. But Menchov won't take much more than 30sec to 1 minute out of Sanchez at most. Menchov's biggest problem is staying on his bike - in the final TT of the Giro last year he fell off, but luckily got back on quick enough to keep the race lead.
The Tour of Qatar (and Tour of Oman) aren't very interesting races really - they are early season, and are pancake flat on every stage. Sprinters stage races all the way, often decided by bonus seconds from stage placings, although this year the guy that won the Tour of Qatar took all his time in a breakaway. They are challenging at times because it gets very windy, and thus can create lots of splits in the peloton.
Menchov I would actually rate as a very good TT, better than Sanchez anyway. But Menchov won't take much more than 30sec to 1 minute out of Sanchez at most. Menchov's biggest problem is staying on his bike - in the final TT of the Giro last year he fell off, but luckily got back on quick enough to keep the race lead.
The Tour of Qatar (and Tour of Oman) aren't very interesting races really - they are early season, and are pancake flat on every stage. Sprinters stage races all the way, often decided by bonus seconds from stage placings, although this year the guy that won the Tour of Qatar took all his time in a breakaway. They are challenging at times because it gets very windy, and thus can create lots of splits in the peloton.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
You'd have to like Contador from this point onwards. Schleck apparently doesn't have the gas in the TT to hold him out. Will be flicking between Le Tour and the Friday AFL game tonight.
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
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