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NSW AAGPS Rugby 2011

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old fella

Stan Wickham (3)
cas/gps

The proposition that the dead hand of tradition should stand in the way of a gps/cas relegation comp. is sad but true. The "traditionalists" that I speak to generally come from pre-1995, when rugby was amateur and schoolboys trained twice a week. That is why the "traditionalists" had time to also study and get into the high paying jobs that now allow them to create thinly disguised scholarships. Good luck to them, but their world view is outdated. Now we have some GPS schools acting as de-facto academies for elite players looking for super 14 contracts. Just get on with a relegation combined comp asap.
 
Lee Grant

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Better not have any more posts here about new lads deciding to go to a certain school as we a crossing the line a bit now. And when I say "we" I include myself.
 
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Dingdong

Guest
random2 said:
Guessing your talking about Nic Penisi, Matt Sandell and Jono Hardy
Penisi is on a scholarship. And while people can be a bit suss that the NSW captian gets a scholarship i can tell you he is actaully very very smart, 2nd in the year i believe and his rugby is just a bonus. Sandell has a brother in year 12 and was always coming to Joeys. Dont know about Hardy though
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I don't have a problem with any of that, in fact I think it's a great opportunity for all those boys mentioned (and others). The issue I have is with the posters on this site that try to stand on moral high ground, who are either A/ Ignorant in regards to what really happens at Joey's or B/ Know what happens but pretend it doesn't.

These players are of so few (at most schools) that I question just how much influence they have on the success of teams anyway. To believe otherwise detracts from the long tradition of Rugby at these schools and underestimates the worth of years of excellence in player development that these schools proudly provide.
 
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sulidoror

Guest
...high 'problem' could be solved by gazetting one of the sports highs as sydney boys high - hills campus, or whatever...just an extension of what the selective high school selects for....rugby is now a career path for some people....as others have pointed out, some other gps schools are already acting as unoffical 'rugby academies'......
 
CTPE

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
sulidoror said:
...high 'problem' could be solved by gazetting one of the sports highs as sydney boys high - hills campus, or whatever...just an extension of what the selective high school selects for....rugby is now a career path for some people....as others have pointed out, some other gps schools are already acting as unoffical 'rugby academies'......
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Congrats Sulidor for what is a truly brilliant suggestion as a means of High becoming competitive again. My understanding with Sports High Schools is at least 40% of the students that attend are "non elite sports" students so High could still maintain their academic standards and enhance those of elite sports students that attend.
 
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knight

Guest
As the post season wrap up continues. Scots must be ruing this year, with Walters Miller and Barakat establishing themselves as one of the greatest schoolboy backrows seen in recent times highlighted by millers 5 tries against grammar. Despite this Riverview were out and out the best team this year. Great tactics, well implemented and an asset which i see falling a bit in recent gps times being strong leadership. Wells was immense in offense and defense and deserves all this post season praise. Newington had the talent, yet lacked mentality, kings and joeys simply lacked talent although seasons were not in vain with the emergence of 2 strong 16s and the testing of trades of some younger kids. I would have to think the most headscratching going on is in North Sydney, where Shore seemed to be brilliant yet they suffered loss after loss after loss. I wasn't aware that their season had been so close. According to a Shore parent the Joeys loss (intercept when they were winning) killed them, their attitude and their hopes of a good year, for a team who chooses not to "offer" particular boys places you do credit them and their highlight video looks talented http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDkU06cFfS4 (oddly compiled against competition front runners Scots and View). A year of great rugby all up i finish with. It really is a great competition, any thoughts on game of the year? joeys view atmosphere was spectacular but i hear Shore Scots was unbelievable any other thoughts
 
angrydog

angrydog

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Can people stop writing this rubbish about merging comps and having tiers etc. What happens, hypothetically, if the two weakest opens schools in tier one are 'relegated' and their u16's are the two strongest sides in that age group. They then have to play in an inferior comp which they will most likely thrash every other school in and then get 'promoted' the next year and risk being at the bottom again because the next age group are not so strong. This is a rediculous idea that will never work successfully.

We are talking about schools not clubs. Boys attend for 5 or 6 years (or 1 or 2 in some cases thanks to some questionable motives of the schools and their old boys) and then they leave. The reality is that in a balanced comp, success or a lack of it, should be cyclical over periods of time. It is only when schools adopt an inbalanced philosophy of being selective towards academics or sportsman etc that the competition then loses its balance and certain schools dominate for reasons that really only falsely represent the schools talent or hard work and others like SBHS fall away off the rugby landscape altogether. The real solution to the problems in the GPS is for the schools to return to their core ideals of producing well rounded young men of all backgrounds and not just solely academic, musical or sporting products. It is a total shame that things have got to the point they are. An eight team, even balanced comptetition is far more beneficial in so many ways than a four, five or six team competition that is full of doubt and scepticism about how a team came to be GPS premiers. I realise that we are in 2011, but when the GPS formed in the 1890's did the founding members really attempt to design a competition that saw success met with total suspicion and criticism about how titles were won.

As for people who dream of their CAS or ISA schools playing regularly against GPS schools....it aint going to happen. Deal with it, build a bridge and get over it. It may be nice to dream and wonder but it wont happen. It's like saying it would be great to drive in the right lane. It just isnt going to happen and nobody will let it because it will mess with everything that people are comfortable with and know. At best some kind of competition could/should be organised where the two top sides (1st XV only) from each comp play a post season competition playing each other once to establish a champion school. This would be very interesting and would provide an awesome standard of footy to be enjoyed by both the players and fans alike.
 
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baldingwingforward

Guest
knight said:
As the post season wrap up continues. Scots must be ruing this year, with Walters Miller and Barakat establishing themselves as one of the greatest schoolboy backrows seen in recent times highlighted by millers 5 tries against grammar.
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You're dreaming Knight. Scots backrow were good but i think a bit of an overstatement above. On the 4 or 5 occassions i saw them play they were good when the going was easy... But what happened when they came up against a decent forward pack - i.e. View? They all went missing. Miller gave away 3 of the 5 tries View scored - hardly what you would expect of an Australian Schoolboy backrower... I would rate Newington's backrow of last year streets ahead of this Scots one.

Totally agree about Shore - very unlucky and on another day they could have been finishing this year in second spot on the ladder, instead of 2nd last! Looking at their scores, the only team that beat them convincingly were Riverview. All others only beat them by a score or less - pretty tough season for the players and coaches to take!
 
angrydog

angrydog

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Looks like a couple of young fellas playing some hard rugby to me. Lets not all become like referees and cry every time some one shows a little agression. Rugby has already become to much a game designed to keep the mothers on the sideline happy rather than the men who play it.
 
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baldingwingforward

Guest
Dear Joey2012 - sorry i have upset you with my forthright comments. In case you hadn't noticed this is a public forum... where people post their thoughts and opinions. The whole idea is that you can write and say what you want. I quite enjoy winding people up - but generally i write what i observe to be correct. Sorry if i have upset you champ - htfu young man!

How do you get _YOUR COMMENT "now you are saying that scots backrow isn't good enough because they were dominated by the view forward pack.." FROM MY COMMENT = "Scots backrow were good but i think a bit of an overstatement above. On the 4 or 5 occassions i saw them play they were good when the going was easy... But what happened when they came up against a decent forward pack - i.e. View? They all went missing."

I didn't say that the Scots backrow weren't good enough - if you can read i actually said that they were good! But they were too flash and couldn't cope with the physicality of Wells in particular.

As to Joeys not winning in the next five years... Where did i say that? I was actually defending Joeys and offering an explanation of why their results have not been very good over the past few seasons. It is detrimental to the competition if Joeys fall by the wayside (especially as Grammar and High effectively create 2 byes!). They have a proud tradition but the aggressive apporach of some of the other schools in regard to poaching players and staff is making the playing field far from level, and Joeys are struggling to keep in touch.
 
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Good rugby fan

Guest
Did anyone else see the schoolboys play England yesterday. Even though England have been playing together for a while they really did dominate our guys and had some monsters out there, their two locks were very impressive as was their No 8. Other thoughts on this game?
 
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baldingwingforward

Guest
joeys2012 said:
granted i may have twisted your words a bit
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At least you admitted it :)

Joeys are on the slide in general. Have a look at their results over the past decade - i don't know and i'm sure a Joeys anorak will correct me or come up with the stats - but has the last 10 years been one of their leanest periods in history in terms of 1st XV premierships? It used to be a case of "is anyone going to be good enough to beat Joeys this year?" But as i mentioned - the other schools are now placing far more emphasis on their rugby, and that combined with the other factors i listed previously for changes at Joeys has really hurt them.

As to who will win next year? Bit early to say, and don't make the mistake of thinking that becuase Joeys had lots of U16s playing 1st XV this year that they will automatically be great next year. The other counter arguement is that the Joeys Yr 12s were so weak collectively that the U16s had to play to make up the numbers.

Other schools also have a number of returning players. Joeys have lost two of their most potent in Le Lievre and Kovacic.

Kings - plenty back from 1s and 2s and a strong 16s side.
Scots - Horwitz , Stewart (both Oz Schls) and Kellaway (NSW 2s) will make for a pretty strong backline, but will they have the tight 5 to get them enough ball?
View - lots back including Rorke (Oz A), Dempsey (NSW), Whiteley (Oz A) , May, Redden, Lyons from this years Champion side.
New - Plenty of quality gone, but still some good players coming back - Lussick, Morris, Prior Lees, plus plenty others?
Shore - don't know much about them. King? good 2nd rower - its Shore they will always be competitive.

So in answer to your question Joey - who will win next year. Too early to say but if i had to pick a winner now, i would say Kings or View with Joeys a real threat and probably having their best season for the last 2 or 3 years. Whether they will be good enough in 2013 to win when all of the 16s are in Yr 12 will depend largely on how much money the other schools have spent by then to bridge the gap...
 
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