Coal Seam Gas Mining

[Cutter]

I don't know how much anyone knows about this, but there is a good documentary about its effects in the US called Gasland (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/). Watch it if you can, it's a frightening example of political opportunism, corporate greed and the little guy being screwed. In particular, this type of mining, where they use a technique called fracking to release the gas, contaminates aquifers.

As it happens, the same thing is now happening across Queensland and, increasingly, in NSW. The driest continent on earth is allowing it's underground water supplies to be poisoned and used in enormous quantities. Of course, the usual order of events is being carried out. The mainstream media reports on it a little bit but only from a soundbite perspective. Gillard is taking the traditional liberal/national position, Tony Abbott has done his traditional policy backflip already and away we go.

Interestingly, Barnaby Joyce and Bill Heffernan oppose it as, of course, do the Greens. Given Gillard's position and Abbott flip flops like a fish in a boat, this might be an issue that brings rural voters to the Greens. It is actually that big.

GetUp (yes, that insidious organisation that does nothing good for anyone), thinks we need to be concerned about it and that we shouldn't allow any more approvals until we know a bit more about it. So too do Government science agencies http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-27/gillard-bligh-unveil-coal-seam-gas-expansion/2734636.

http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/coal-seam-gas/petition/stop-coal-seam-gas

Currently, Australia’s laws do not take proper account of the irreversible impacts of coal seam gas mining.
If we don't act now, we're losing precious time to protect the health and livelihoods of communities, the quality of our water, and the sustainability of our farmland.

From Sydney’s water supply catchment to the rich agricultural lands of the Liverpool Plains and the Darling Downs, the coal seam gas industry is expanding at breakneck speed. Government regulators are playing catch-up, leaving local communities to deal with a poorly regulated, rapidly growing industry. They're doing so by locking the gate to their properties, writing to politicians, and informing their neighbours about the issue.

Let's join the communities affected in calling on the Health, Environment, Water and Agriculture Ministers to stop the coal seam gas industry until proper regulations are put in place? Sign the petition on the right.

 

[Scotty]

Not sure if this has the capacity to bring voters to the Greens. They aren't exactly pro-farming either.

 

[Jnor]

Hasn't all the talk in these communities been of alliances between the farming communities and the greens, as unlikely as they seem? Whether that translates to votes will depend on what specific policies the other parties bring. If the Greens are the only party prepared to limit or stop coal seam gas then I'm sure they'll win some votes from farmers and landowners.

 

[chasmac]

Hasn't all the talk in these communities been of alliances between the farming communities and the greens, as unlikely as they seem? Whether that translates to votes will depend on what specific policies the other parties bring. If the Greens are the only party prepared to limit or stop coal seam gas then I'm sure they'll win some votes from farmers and landowners.

Yes it has been a case of " My enemies enemies are my friends." Not happy bedfellows. My view is that the Federals will need to pass legislation to give them the power to stop the miners. The states do not have the will power and need the money.
It seems that Abbott doesn't want to alienate miners or farmers, he will need to decide who he is going to back. If he doesn't then he will lose the support of both.
Gillard will just get her instructions from Bob Brown. Miners will be blocked and Farmers will have to plant native vegetation and become park wardens for the Greater Bilby and the Western Barred Bandicoot.

 

[Cutter]

Yes it has been a case of " My enemies enemies are my friends." Not happy bedfellows. My view is that the Federals will need to pass legislation to give them the power to stop the miners. The states do not have the will power and need the money.
It seems that Abbott doesn't want to alienate miners or farmers, he will need to decide who he is going to back. If he doesn't then he will lose the support of both.
Gillard will just get her instructions from Bob Brown. Miners will be blocked and Farmers will have to plant native vegetation and become park wardens for the Greater Bilby and the Western Barred Bandicoot.

Well that would be right if it wasn't demonstrably wrong. She's already come out in support of Coal Seam Gas Mining.

 

[Cutter]

Hasn't all the talk in these communities been of alliances between the farming communities and the greens, as unlikely as they seem? Whether that translates to votes will depend on what specific policies the other parties bring. If the Greens are the only party prepared to limit or stop coal seam gas then I'm sure they'll win some votes from farmers and landowners.

Allow Artesian basin to be poisoned (based on what we currently know CSGM does) or vote for greens? It seems a pretty easy choice to me. Then again, humans are far from rational beings.

 

[Aussie D]

There was a great 4Corners program on this earlier this year. The problem is not so much the coal seam gas extraction but the fracking and the fact the industry is largely unregulated (I would love to know which party deregulated the industry as this industry previously had some of the toughest regulations particularly in reference to the great artesian basin).

 

[Cutter]

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...d-to-mining-20110817-1ixpe.html#ixzz1VKaTKyCk

Our food bowls should not be sacrificed to mining Timothy Duddy
August 18, 2011 - 6:45AM

Opinion

Comments 9
.
Tim Duddy on his sunflower farm says a moratorium should be put on mining in agricultural areas until a regional solution is reached to protect farmers. Photo: Paul Mathews
Australia is the driest continent on earth and as we push towards an ever increasing population we must be mindful of the fact the less than 9 per cent of our continent's surface is arable land: a far smaller portion of that is prime agricultural land, and an even smaller portion of that has underground water resources.

This limited area for producing food for the nation is under threat from coal seam gas mining and so far the pendulum has been firmly tilted towards the miners' interests. There is a way the two industries can co-exist, but it will require a moratorium on further mining exploration while a regional plan is formed.

I cannot overstate the importance to the country of our food producing areas. The Liverpool Plains in the north-west of NSW, where I am from, is an area of just 1.2 million hectares that produces about 37 per cent of the nation's cereal crops. After 185 years of working the land, locals now use some of the most advanced broad-acre farming practices in the world, while local irrigators led the state in water reform.

Advertisement: Story continues below Many Australians have their wealth tied up in mining stocks and it is in their own interests to imagine that these companies will never affect the agricultural viability of our nation. A few well-run media campaigns have ensured that Australians hold this view. I too felt the same way until mining came into my life six years ago.

The truth is far different – pollution, damage and destruction are the norm, and water resources are being compromised and destroyed on an hourly basis. For far too long, this industry has been able to fix any problem by waving the cheque book.

The legislation in this area is totally inadequate to deal with the coal and gas rush in this nation. Farmers in the Liverpool Plains engaged in the process as set out by the Acts, but the process failed to protect our property and water rights and interrupted our ability to work our own land. We then went to NSW Supreme Court and won, only to have the NSW Labor government of the time retrospectively change the laws, with the full support of the opposition.

Yet while agricultural areas are under siege, Queensland will protect urban areas from mining. NSW and Victoria say they will not follow suit, but the issue of urban mining and the controversial extraction method of fracking is gaining prominence.

The issue of mining in agricultural areas, leading to questions of how the country will feed itself, sits alongside broader questions about how the nation will generate heat and light into the next millennium.

The mining industry suggests that money justifies everything. But like the little boy who ate too much chocolate cake, we as a nation must think about tomorrow.

We still need a mining industry but, like other industries, it must be held accountable for the damage it inflicts. Until now, the nation has turned a blind eye – we love our wealth and we love our prosperity, and Australians have been unaware what they've been sacrificing to meet these ends.

Good fences make good neighbors, but at present the mining industry is not prepared to be fenced out of anywhere. They say they do no harm, but all around we see evidence to the contrary. Throughout the Hunter Valley wells are dry and rivers no longer run clean, while aquifers in central Queensland are predicted to drop more than 50 metres following coal seam gas extraction.

The only way agriculture and mining will be able to co-exist is if extractive industries are kept away from productive agricultural land and the precious water resources on which it relies. A regional plan is needed that sets out areas for certain land use, including agriculture, wine production, thoroughbred breeding and mining. Boundaries drawn in black are the only way to achieve a diverse regional Australia where the various industries can co-exist in peace.

Forcing the mining industry to be accountable could also serve to promote renewable energy policies and investment. We cannot eat money or coal, yet we still need light, warmth and industrial activity. Technologies to harvest energy from the sun, the wind and the ocean are advancing fast – if we cast our minds to it, who knows what wonders are ahead? The time to take action to preserve our future is now or there will be no turning back.

Timothy Duddy is a Liverpool Plains farmer and stood as an independent candidate at the last NSW election.

 

[chasmac]

Well that would be right if it wasn't demonstrably wrong. She's already come out in support of Coal Seam Gas Mining.

Fair call. Is this support unanimous or is it geographically based? Legitimate question, I'm not taking the piss.

 

[Cutter]

Fair call. Is this support unanimous or is it geographically based? Legitimate question, I'm not taking the piss.

Who knows. It might depend who is behind the mine, what electorate it's in etc etc. She's differentiated herself from the Greens though. Abbott is still flip flopping.

 

[chasmac]

Who knows. It might depend who is behind the mine, what electorate it's in etc etc. She's differentiated herself from the Greens though. Abbott is still flip flopping.

Looks like the miners will get the upper hand in this issue then. Unless Abbott introduces a bill which is Green friendly. That would be seriously interesting politics..

 

[Cutter]

Looks like the miners will get the upper hand in this issue then. Unless Abbott introduces a bill which is Green friendly. That would be seriously interesting politics..

Which is why I posted the link to the GetUp petition...

 

[Scotty]

Abbott isn't quite 'flip flopping' as you say. He tempered is initial position (being that there should be no allowance of mining on private land), to no allowance of mining in agriculturally rich land (or our 'food basins'). I thought you would agree with this?

 

[Nusadan]

Like the analogy re little boy who ate too much chocolate cake...

Having worked in both mining and agricultural industries, I would support a moratorium on 'fracking' as we have abundant of resources elsewhere to use other methods for the time being, and with continually developing extraction technology, it wouldn't be too hard to guess that we would be able to do away with fracking in the not too distant future.

 

[Cutter]

Have a look at this - it really is terrifying. Look up Gaslands, a US documentary, as well.

[video=youtube;a6DCJZ2NcbI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=a6DCJZ2NcbI[/video]

 

[Mr Doug]

Cutter, in the interests of "truth and honesty":I heard an interview on ABC radio recently with Proff. Peter ? (can't recall his surname). He has worked in gas industry in N America and has returned to Aust to do likewise via a WA university. He mentioned that the producer of "Gasland", was asked: "Were you aware that gas has been present (as a 'natural occurrence') in the domestic water supplies for many years before coal-seam gas fracking commenced in the locations filmed"? The producer replied "yes". "Did you endeavour to inform the viewers of this fact at any stage during the documentarty"? The producer's reply: "No"! "Why not"...producer's reply: "BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SUIT THE STORY-LINE!! This is why there are people 'out there' (like moi) who don't believe everything they read or hear from "environmentalists"!. Cheers.

 

[Cutter]

Cutter, in the interests of "truth and honesty":I heard an interview on ABC radio recently with Proff. Peter ? (can't recall his surname). He has worked in gas industry in N America and has returned to Aust to do likewise via a WA university. He mentioned that the producer of "Gasland", was asked: "Were you aware that gas has been present (as a 'natural occurrence') in the domestic water supplies for many years before coal-seam gas fracking commenced in the locations filmed"? The producer replied "yes". "Did you endeavour to inform the viewers of this fact at any stage during the documentarty"? The producer's reply: "No"! "Why not"...producer's reply: "BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SUIT THE STORY-LINE!! This is why there are people 'out there' (like moi) who don't believe everything they read or hear from "environmentalists"!. Cheers.

That is a such a red herring. The "environmentalists" in the clip aren't your usual hippies are they. They are farmers and traditional national party voters.

To go back to your point, it's the other chemicals that are used and the release of the gas at large volumes (large enough to harvest) that is a concern. Those chemicals are released into the acquifers which are used for human and stock water. On that point, even the miners themselves don't disagree.

If you have any information to suggest there is no danger to water supplies then feel free to post it.

 

[waratahjesus]

Cutter, in the interests of "truth and honesty":I heard an interview on ABC radio recently with Proff. Peter ? (can't recall his surname). He has worked in gas industry in N America and has returned to Aust to do likewise via a WA university. He mentioned that the producer of "Gasland", was asked: "Were you aware that gas has been present (as a 'natural occurrence') in the domestic water supplies for many years before coal-seam gas fracking commenced in the locations filmed"? The producer replied "yes". "Did you endeavour to inform the viewers of this fact at any stage during the documentarty"? The producer's reply: "No"! "Why not"...producer's reply: "BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SUIT THE STORY-LINE!! This is why there are people 'out there' (like moi) who don't believe everything they read or hear from "environmentalists"!. Cheers.

I understand totally your point, but by the same reasoning, will a gas company release information that inst convenient to them and there wants and needs. Gasland is designed to make a point just as press releases are, the truth is always in the middle but the major problem here is finding it before emotion highjacks the debate like has happened with o many issues lately.

 

[Ruggo]

This is no different to the climate change debate. Proactive policy is required as the science on the issue is constantly evolving.

I don't know about some of these documentaries on issues like this. I often think they can lead to more cynicism rather than the procative response they intend to generate which leaves them possibly more counterproductive than anything.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Purely on the politics of this, last month Minister Fergo was supporting the industry with publicly, playing the "local investment" card and "Aussie companies" trick. IMO there will be little to stop the already large number of wells that exist in QLD, as politically there is no way the Government can afford to lose any royalties, tax income etc.

These projects will continue to be the political argument to counter failing other sectors of the economy. That simply is not a sustainable political mantra especially when there appears to be more and more questions being asked.

If anyone saw it less than a week ago now on Sky News (and the appalling Helen Dally), but, the head of Santos and "leader" of the peoples group leading a grassroots movement up in QLD debating the issues.