Slash
Bill Watson (15)
SRU............they don't exactly warm the cockles of the heart in terms of effect decision makers do they? Who are they anyway?
Shute Shield 2012
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SRU............they don't exactly warm the cockles of the heart in terms of effect decision makers do they? Who are they anyway?
T
Tahboy
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Slash that comment about 50% didnt come through shoes how much you don't know and live in a dream world
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I have some sympathy for the Brumbies idea - their responsibility must be to develop rugby down there.
I think all this argument shows is how utterly dysfunctional the Australian rugby heirarchy is.
More importantly there is not a hint of, either, appreciation up in the Gods that there is a problem, or, a plan (or even the will) to address it - at least to make a start or, as Paul Keating would say, have a conversation with us, the rugby "voting" public, about what can be done remove the conflicts of interest, self interest and, in some cases, indifference.
I think all this argument shows is how utterly dysfunctional the Australian rugby heirarchy is.
More importantly there is not a hint of, either, appreciation up in the Gods that there is a problem, or, a plan (or even the will) to address it - at least to make a start or, as Paul Keating would say, have a conversation with us, the rugby "voting" public, about what can be done remove the conflicts of interest, self interest and, in some cases, indifference.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I can start an argument with you over this just to show how difficult the issue is: Why should riverview be gordon when just across the rive in hunter hill, HH is a norths junior club: riverview is closer to norths than HH. Why do Eastwood get Joeys - should be Wests or ig you accept my argument about HH being in Norths, since they are about 200m apart they should go to Norths - the more so since the jo boys play with HH (as I understand it).
And would this allocation apply to kids who went to these schools from far way? Why should it - pounds to peanuts the kids started with a village club in the area they were living in.
Fundamentally the idea of allocating kids from schools to district clubs is entirely contrary to a free and democratic society.
if a kid is going to uni why shouldn't he be allowed to play for uni if he wants to?
If you really want to build rugby in this country you have to remove the private school bias in the game. simple.
yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
This comment belongs in your favourite schools thread IS...
But private school is where a lot of current senior grade players earn their stripes? As much as it sucks, this is the rugby landscape in Australia (and generally, the rest of the world) and as much as the Super Rugby franchises and the ARU can do all the 'development' they like, the private schools will always be where it's at. I agree with the sentiment, but the reality is completely different.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I agree - but it has no future: hence the complaining that has been going on in this thread about clubs developing this player or that: god knows what with - aren't they all broke, or at best "a week to week (financial) proposition"?
A
Albert
Guest
Has this been posted yet?
http://www.sydneyunirugby.com.au/_b...rms_format_for_2012_Shute_Shield_Competition/
http://www.sydneyunirugby.com.au/_b...rms_format_for_2012_Shute_Shield_Competition/
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
You call that dispersed?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I read that link: thanks for posting it.
Now can someone tell me:have i missed the bit in this memo where we are told what is the criterion applied to split the comp at round 11?
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I know. At first I presumed it became a two tier comp for the last 5 rounds, which I think does sort of make sense make sense sort of. Then it became clear that it was more of a pool system, which isn't too bad.
What I couldn't work out is if those pools were geographically split or seeded. I presume seeded but still it's not the best piece of communication they should have got a lay person to read it and asked them what did and didn't make sense.
K
Keithy
Guest
I outlined these basics on the 25/10 and the problems still remains the split. Who plays who. In some comps Parra and Penrith don't compete and this could leave those teams playing them in the second round with only 12 matches for the season ie. Colts 1 comp. Do they go odds and evens or top 6 and bottom 6, north harbour and south harbour. Is an AFL finals style or NRL finals style. The whole comp has become a farce with 8 teams making the finals.
Rob
Sydney Middleton (9)
The split is based on club championship points. Top six clubs (based on club championship) play each other and bottom 6 play each other. Everyone in top six make the semis so they are just playing for positions in the final 5 games. The top two teams in the bottom six also make the semis - presumably at 7th and 8th spot. Has a lot of holes in it e.g. Woods fourth grade last year were very low in table even though woods club overall were second or third in club championship - so Woods fourth grade would compete against other well performing clubs in that second round and make semis on back of overall club performance even though would not have deserved to be in semis. Cant see this sort of format lasting for more than one year.
no9
Ted Fahey (11)
Slash old mate I think that hat is one size too small. Lets have a look at the points you've raised to support your assertions. Most senior clubs have very little input or development with their junior village clubs and aren't really interested in spending development funds until players are at Colts level due to the fact that many of the schoolboy stars can't cut it when they step away from the pampered existence and glorification of the first XV. Having said that, Wests has a junior academy of predominantly 16/17 year olds from their juniors and local schools that they encourage to move through and play colts. These boys train and mix with first grade players and colts throughout the year at various training camps and are exposed to an accelerated rugby education. I think you'll find that some of the profits you mentioned are put towards this level of grass roots development.
Yes, Wests have only the one junior club but they aren't prepared to go broke by paying for the sake of clubs affiliating with the district. Two local teams in Petersham and Canterbury were enticed to affiliate with Sydney Uni (who of course need a large junior village base to find players to fill their grade and colts teams) with healthy sponsorship and Hunters Hill chose to affiliate with Gordon/Norths. Junior rugby clubs don't spring up overnight and the Wests juniors president (who won the NSW junior rugby club official of the year) has spent many hours trying to develop bonds with clubs like Balmain and Briars who have subbies teams but no juniors as yet.
Thought I'd do some checking of how well your Manly club was travelling and I see they have the grand total of 4 village clubs and I guess St Pius at Chatswood or St Augustines is now considered Manly junior development clubs as thats where Jones, Hooper and Hingoa attended school isn't it? or are the rules different on the peninsula.
As to our reckless poaching of junior out of district players, the state championship rules don't allow players to represent another district unless they are not selected by their district or their district doesn't enter a team. Looking at this years championship program Wests had 4 non Wests juniors players from 49 selected in the 16/17 age group and Manly had 5 of 44 players. To add to that all the 17's Manly juniors were from the Roos club while the 16's were all but a couple from Harlequins. Based on your earlier statements it looks like Manly don't do anything more than Wests when it comes to the development of these age groups. Throwing stones in glass houses aren't you.
Billy Young did go to Joeys and then played Wests colts before he moved to the Brumbies and also Eastwood with his mate Lee Green who was looking to play first grade but was competing with a couple of ex Australian schools players in the same position at Wests. Many Wests boys have come from St Pats, Trinity, Newington, Joeys and as afar as Oakhill and Hills Sports recently, just as Warringah and Manly feed off St Augustines and Shore or Gordon off Barker and Knox. But this is the current landscape of junior rugby as the ARU and the provinces stand by and watch junior club rugby wither on the vine. Every club now has representatives at the schools trials but they are few and far between at a state championship.
Now, as to that 100k profit. That is probably due to the club having a common sense approach to not paying over the top payments to guys who should only be playing for the enjoyment of the game. That money reinvested in junior development is more logical than paying some mercenary who at best might bring in a couple of dozen paying spectators. Ask the clubs who are surviving from week to week if that's an effective financial policy to work from. Eastwood and Gordon have both recently come close to folding their tents. Of course the downside to this is the lazy clubs who are able to offer financial inducement or higher representative opportunities enticing these players away from Wests. I don't know what all the driving factors behind your list of players who have left or are leaving is but I know at least 2 of them were told moving was in their best interests if they wanted to play provincial level rugby and others are looking for extra grocery money. Maybe if other clubs stopped enticing large numbers of players away we would make the semi's on a more consistent level. Some may have found the grass wasn't any greener having spent the year in 2nds and 3rds at their new club.
2011 a political nightmare? By whose reports? Those that I know have said they enjoyed the year and the clubs players showed great support for the fourth XV in their grand final battle with Easts. If you dig deep enough you'll always find someone who feels their talents weren't recognised in any rugby club.
I guess all we can ask for in future is you take a good look in your own backyard before you start throwing wild accusations around about what other districts do in regards to the development of their junior/colts players. Wests rugby knows as well as anyone what it's like to invest time (more than money) into a promising young player only to see them enticed to leave for what they see as a necessary evil for a successful future. If the clubs came to their collective senses and realised that the levels of interest amongst paying spectators can't justify paying players sums of money above what their viable income is then it may be possible to return to the days where most players saw out their careers at the district club they played for as a junior.
PS* I hope the grammar, spelling and punctuation is suffice for your colleague, Lord Lily of the Peninsula.
K
Keithy
Guest
Andrew this explaination is why West Harbour is poorly managed. They have no idea about the area they are in. Leichhardt, Five Dock, Haberfield and Concord are soccer strong holds and not a rugby heartland. That is why the West Tigers have such a small junior rugby league base. The demographics is still strongly influced by soccer people ie. Italians. But I can't wait to see these new junior clubs. Like the Pirates say "legends since 1900" and "we breed not buy" or maybe it should be "natural law since 1929".
no9
Ted Fahey (11)
Western Suburbs/Harbour has always been affiliated with the inner western suburbs and the last time I looked Leichardt.Concord and Five Dock were still in that area. So your argument is what? Because you are based in an area with a high Italian/soccer population you should just give up and move on. Eastwood has a reknowned asian community so I guess they should all start playing table tennis and Warringah and Manly have a lot of surfers on the peninsula but it doesn't seem to stop them continuing to play rugby. If you have a good look at all the junior leagues you'll find all of the city based clubs struggle with the exceptions of Parramatta, Penrith and Campbelltown. As to being poorly managed, the club is one of very few who have made a profit in the past few seasons. Wests may not need to develop clubs for the future, they can just sit back and wait for the better managed clubs to go bankrupt and then pick up the new affiliations unless of course Sydney Uni don't buy their favours. As Uni like to believe " Don't bother developing them when you can scholarship them".
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I assume you're right BUT it doesn't actually say that....the memo must have been the bit the ARU helped with.
Logically competition points will be harder to come by in the top 6 pool than the other one: that produces a huge potential anomaly but since 8 (8!) teams make the playoffs it probably won't matter except that where you finish in the 8 might be significantly improved if you "happen" to be in the bottom 6. Just a thought.
This kind of thing is a great way to alienate half the rugby watching public at round 11, and 1/4 more of them at playoff time.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
K
Keithy
Guest
No9 the point is the inner west is no rugby heartland with junior clubs popping up everywhere.
Good luck with your profits because your board is going to build a new clubhouse on the eastern side of Concord Oval at a cost of $500k. Poor management is spending half a million on an asset that will cost a stack of cash to maintain and run. This is one way to go bankrupt.
Good luck with your profits because your board is going to build a new clubhouse on the eastern side of Concord Oval at a cost of $500k. Poor management is spending half a million on an asset that will cost a stack of cash to maintain and run. This is one way to go bankrupt.
Andrew B Cox
Sydney Middleton (9)
Keithy, I do agree with you that from the 1960's soccer has been the dominant sport in that Leichhardt/ Five Dock/ Haberfield/ Concord area, however, as I said in my last post, the demographic is rapidly changing. House prices in the inner west have dictated that. What's more, the number of kids attending private schooling in that area is on the rise.
I don't agree that the size and success of a junior union is a direct result of the competency of the grade club. Having played and coached at the Woods, I've noticed the size of the juniors is more a virtue of geography than administration. The Hills district is aspirational, and large numbers go to Kings as well as other rugby playing schools. They need to learn the game before they get there, hence a big EWDJRU. Certainly I'm not saying they haven't been well governed in utilising the talent they've grown, but the quality of the soil has had a hand in the crop. Over the last few decades, the soil in the inner west hasn't been as rich.
Wests make significant contributions to their juniors. The club helped established the mod comp on Saturday Mornings. An initiative utilised not just by Wests juniors but junior clubs of other districts such as Petersham & Canterbury (Uni), Hunters Hill (Gordon) and Drummoyne (Norths).
I'm not sure what your suggestion is Keithy. Should the club give up against the 'traditional owners' (Soccer) and just get out there with the cheque book?
I believe the district needs more clubs, so kids can grow up ' in the shadows of Concord Oval'. In fact, I'm hoping to bring an under 12 team into existence this year- and maybe they will create a new club.
There's more every club can do to develop their juniors, Wests included,but because they have a small junior base is not evidence that the senior club is poorly managed.
Maybe it's the beginning of another club
no9
Ted Fahey (11)
Sarcastic, Uni need village players like an ashtray on a motorbike. I'd classify Manly to Palm beach as the peninsula.
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