China's Carbon Tax

[Karl]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8C5D1220120105

To quote the Australian re China's token tax announcement - "there is little sign that the other largest carbon emitters will soon join it, and China's low starting carbon price will still see Australia out of step with global action on climate change."

Julia's all over the crumbs like a fat kid on a cupcake of course. AGW alarmists are saying Toy Abbott just had the rug pulled out from under his dragging feet.

I on the other hand concur with this nice, objective assessment, from the same article in The Australian "For Australia, the most worrying aspect of China's plan to price carbon is the suggested starting price of just $1.55 (10 yuan). Although it is expected to progressively increase, it is a fraction of Australia's starting price of $23 a tonne. The Minerals Council of Australia, among others, is right to be concerned that this high price, which also far exceeds prices in Europe and New Zealand, will hurt the competitiveness of Australian businesses. Although the government promises assistance to emissions-intensive industries, again the question is raised as to whether Australia is too far ahead of global action, placing our economy at risk with a scheme that imposes a heavy burden on some of our biggest industries."

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

is right to be concerned that this high price, which also far exceeds prices in Europe and New Zealand

Where can we find the global prices? (not interested in debating the impact of any tax, just wondering where this information is available)

 

[Karl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax

Try here

 

[Schadenfreude]

Beer costs 1/20th there what it costs here too.

I wonder how each price compares to the average wage in each country.

 

[Karl]

Are comparisons like that valid?

 

[Schadenfreude]

Yes. 100% valid.

If I make $4 a day, and you make $80 a day - its a disproportionate tax if I have to pay the same as you.

 

[Karl]

But its not an income tax on private citizens. Its completely different. Its a tax on co2 emissions more or less at the source. Why should our industry be burdened with a tax that is 15 times higher than China's companies? They make as much money as ours, they operate in the global economy the same as ours do.

This sort of differential will have huge competitive implications for us.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Because the tax is less about raising revenue, and more about moving away from fossil fuels. It's an economists way of encouraging renewable energy.

The tax does get directly passed on to everyone in the country and the average Chinese person will hurt in the pocket just as much as us (probably more).

 

[Scotty]

'The tax does get directly passed on to everyone ....'

Sounds like it is better than our tax then.

 

[Scotty]

Australia's CO2 emissions per capita are 3.5 times China's emissions per capita.

Australia's CO2 tax is 15 times China's CO2 tax.

There are many different ways of comparing these taxes, but none of them are as straightforward and we'd like.

 

[spooony]

Because the tax is less about raising revenue, and more about moving away from fossil fuels. It's an economists way of encouraging renewable energy.

The tax does get directly passed on to everyone in the country and the average Chinese person will hurt in the pocket just as much as us (probably more).

In a democratic country yes. But China is one big cheap factory where those Propostos or whatever you call it are the board members and the guy in charge the CEO. That's how China work

 

[Karl]

I am not convinced at all that massive discrepancies are fair or reasonable or that the explanations given hold water.