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Lance is a cheat? Yes or no

Lance is a cheat?


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Bruwheresmycar

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
If the didn't go after Lance even with all the evidence they have against him. That would be considered "not going after all drugs cheats". It is unfair on all the people who got podiums in GT GC's over that decade and were suspended for doping and testing positive if they get everyone BUT Lance. Lance is one of the last to go.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
If the didn't go after Lance even with all the evidence they have against him. That would be considered "not going after all drugs cheats". It is unfair on all the people who got podiums in GT GC's over that decade and were suspended for doping and testing positive if they get everyone BUT Lance. Lance is one of the last to go.


No issue with that. What I want to see now is the evidence in the public domain. USADA say what they have is damning, so let's see it.
 

Bruwheresmycar

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Well it would be in the public domain if Lance decides to challenge the ruling. Until then they wont release a lot of stuff, for example if they release the testamonies of witnesses, Lance will go after them before the hearing. Also, I'm not so sure all of the data is hidden. Depends on what you are looking for, a lot of it is probably somewhere on the internet.
 

Bruwheresmycar

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Hasn't he already sought to have it kept quiet and failed though?

I think it turns out they offered the entire group of US Postal riders/trainers/doctors directly involved in this doping ring a quiet way out. The other 10 accepted the deal/sanctions the USADA gave out, but Armstrong was the only one to take this route of legally challenging their power ect...

So yea in the end I can't see how this isn't a case of going after entire rings of drug cheats. Hardly a witch hunt. If it was the other guys would surely mount challenges along with Armstrong.

edit: And news is coming out that the USADA plan to send evidence of positive samples to the UCI in a 2 weeks time. Hopefully the definitive evidence comes out at some point in the near future for all to see.
 

Bruwheresmycar

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
It's coming..

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/usada-outlines-armstrong-evidence-in-case-file_256450

The full case file that USADA officials handed over to the UCI on Wednesday totals more than 1,000 pages and, according to Tygart, includes “sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the U.S. Postal Service Team and its participants’ doping activities. The evidence also includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/usadas-armstrong-reasoned-decision-full-text_256618
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Fark

In it, Usada say it has "found proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Lance Armstrong engaged in serial cheating through the use, administration and trafficking of performance-enhancing drugs and methods that Armstrong participated in running in the US Postal Service Team as a doping conspiracy".

It adds: "His [Armstrong's] goal [of winning the Tour de France multiple times] led him to depend on EPO, testosterone and blood transfusions but also, more ruthlessly, to expect and to require that his team-mates would likewise use drugs to support his goals if not their own.

"It was not enough that his team-mates give maximum effort on the bike, he also required that they adhere to the doping programme outlined for them or be replaced.

"He was not just a part of the doping culture on his team, he enforced and re-enforced it.
"Armstrong's use of drugs was extensive, and the doping programme on his team, designed in large part to benefit Armstrong, was massive and pervasive."

The UCI now has 21 days to lodge an appeal against Usada's decision with Wada or it must comply with the decision to strip Armstrong ... of his seven Tour de France titles and ban him for life
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19903716
 

Baldric

Jim Clark (26)
I think the only matter in dispute is how much did he cheat.
We know what the people have confessed to and saw LA do, what else did he do which was out of sight or not spoken about to team members. He would have had to have done something to keep himself as the leader of the team
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
This is just a minor hiccup in the domination of drugs in sport.

Armstrong has just reinforced the unfortunate fact that drugs will win you championships and make you wealthy. This is the message that all struggling athletes will take in.

We need to impose criminal charges, confiscate prizemoney and sponsorships, and get these pricks doing serious jail time. That goes for the dodgy officials as well. Geez I hate drugs.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I don't like them in sport either, but I would stop short of criminal proceedings. On what basis would they occur? A sport's governing body can impose any sanctions they like, including confiscating titles and prize money (that might be debatable in court), but jail time would be a whole other matter.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I don't like them in sport either, but I would stop short of criminal proceedings. On what basis would they occur? A sport's governing body can impose any sanctions they like, including confiscating titles and prize money (that might be debatable in court), but jail time would be a whole other matter.
In Lances' case he will almost certainly go to jail.
The grub sued one of his sponsors who withheld bonus money on the basis that they suspected him of cheating.He sued them and won the case as the sponsor couldn't prove he was a cheat.In the process he clearly committed perjury.
Remember Marion Jones did 6 months for perjury,when she was dragged into court by USADA.
Lance dragged the sponsor into court and lied so the court would award him $5M. That's got to earn him a stiffer penalty than 6 months.
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
In Lances' case he will almost certainly go to jail.
The grub sued one of his sponsors who withheld bonus money on the basis that they suspected him of cheating.He sued them and won the case as the sponsor couldn't prove he was a cheat.In the process he clearly committed perjury.
Remember Marion Jones did 6 months for perjury,when she was dragged into court by USADA.
Lance dragged the sponsor into court and lied so the court would award him $5M. That's got to earn him a stiffer penalty than 6 months.


It wasn't that they couldn't prove he was a cheat, he won the case as there was nothing about cheating in the original contract. So he will be safe here, unfortunately.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ayment-from-Armstrong-to-Ferrari-in-2006.aspx

Not a bad bonus for the dodgy doctor.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
In Lances' case he will almost certainly go to jail.
The grub sued one of his sponsors who withheld bonus money on the basis that they suspected him of cheating.He sued them and won the case as the sponsor couldn't prove he was a cheat.In the process he clearly committed perjury.
Remember Marion Jones did 6 months for perjury,when she was dragged into court by USADA.
Lance dragged the sponsor into court and lied so the court would award him $5M. That's got to earn him a stiffer penalty than 6 months.

And that would be fair enough, because there is a law already on the books for that. Cheating in sport isn't a crime, but lying in court is and I'm fine with there being criminal punishment for that.
 
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