Which clubs are the Class of 2012 going to?

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Uni to play for or study at or both?

 

[It is what it is]

^^^ Uni to play for or study at or both?

Definitely rugby, study not sure HJ

 

[Tahboy]

Kellaway to Randwick through the Wade Kelly connection and other Scots players to also follow. Brogan Roods to leave Uni and join Randwick.
I heard Norths were handing out $2500 cheques to some players.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Kellaway to Randwick through the Wade Kelly connection and other Scots players to also follow. Brogan Roods to leave Uni and join Randwick.
I heard Norths were handing out $2500 cheques to some players.

Doesn't Kellaway have one more year to go before Colts?

$2500 may sound a lot but many Parents write a cheque twice as large as this every term at some Private Schools.

My knowledge of club budgets suggests that not too many colts players will be receiving offers of that nature, unless the club has a very, very generous benefactor. Not too many clubs have these.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Market forces prevailing?

Have the other Clubs colts programmes caught up, or will the clubs benefit from Uni programme graduates (albeit possibly unhappy ones) rocking up and lifting the standards at the receiving clubs because of their experience and expectations gained from the Uni programme.

Meanwhile, Uni get a new bunch of raw recruits to work on. Seems like a real win-win situation with some credit to go to Uni for raising the standards across the board.

Alternately, some players may actually not be as good as they think they are, and they don't like the reality that they may be forced to confront at Uni, where they aren't treated like Rugby Royalty and fawned over by sycophantic and vicarious Coaches, Masters, Parents, and Old Boys as they were when they were in the 1st XV in Year 12. Check out the number of posts in the Sydney Colts 2012 thread compared to the GPS 2012, ISA 2012, or CAS 2012 threads.

Credit where it is due as well please. I know of several boys at Uni that were not Aust (or NSW) Schoolboy rep players but they have worked diligently within the Uni programme and have consequently gained and retained Colts 1's and Grade positions over some players who have better much schoolboy rep pedigrees. Some players when released from the Schoolboy system struggle with the transition from 1st XV schoolboy star to Colts, and are unable to maintain their training disciplines, and form outside the School pressure cooker environment.

Maybe some impatient former Schoolboy Rep darlings need some HTFU cream.

There is so much gold in that post I don't know where to start.


Firstly, the market forces thing is bang on IMHO. A club like Uni can't hold on to these guys forever. They will seek out opportunities elsewhere if they are stuck playing second or third grade when they could play top grade elsewhere. I've seen it too many times across the club rugby world for it not to happen in this case. We see it with first graders going to other countries because they can't break into a Super rugby franchise. This and the other clubs getting better will make the Shute Shield a better competition. The sky didn't fall in when Randwick won all those flags and it won't with Uni doing it either.

I agree with the praise of Uni's systems. It's no accident that they are successful. Thought went into that programme and they've executed it very well.

I also agree with the proposition that some schoolboy star players get a rude awakening when they hit the Uni (or other top clubs) programme. You find out a lot about yourself when you come out of that bubble and hit the "real" world. It goes for your studies as much as it does for sport. Character building I call it

 

[Brian Westlake]

Joeys and Oz Schools LHP Tomas Robertson is going there lily.

Can't think of any other club that would bring out his potential more.

don't be too sure on that one Uncle Lee.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Messrs Jarse and Hornet

Didn't just hit the nail on the head. Drove it clean through the timber!
Beautiful stuff guys. Little Johnny or whatever should get his parents and himself to read this as the "rude awakening " can be somewhat deflating to the poor little souls.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I keep hearing that schoolboy stars are found out when they go to colts but looking at the 1st Colts this year I see that many of the "schoolboy stars" performed quite well and maintained their spots in the 1st team all year. Looking at the lower grade colts teams I haven't seen too many high profile schoolboy players (except for Uni who haven't got enough spots to play everyone in 1st Colts).

I'm interested in which high profile schoolboy players have been "found out" in recent years or is this just a "urban myth" put about. lets put some factual scenarios to the generalisations made on these forums shall we.

 

[Lee Grant]

don't be too sure on that one Uncle Lee.

It's what his dad told me a couple of months ago but things could have changed since then I suppose.

I keep hearing that schoolboy stars are found out when they go to colts but looking at the 1st Colts this year I see that many of the "schoolboy stars" performed quite well and maintained their spots in the 1st team all year.

Interesting that. I don't watch Colts because I usually watch GPS or Club; so can't comment. Maybe the remarks made were just an anti-private school jibe - or maybe this year has been different.

I imagine that some of the forwards have a bit of a shock if they stopped growing early and were just big enough to play a certain position at school in the first place. I imagine also that some props may have had to switch to hooker and things don't work out, and ditto for school locks who had to play in the backrow, which they may not have been used to.

Did you see any of that?
.

 

[bossmaster]

Market forces prevailing?

Have the other Clubs colts programmes caught up, or will the clubs benefit from Uni programme graduates (albeit possibly unhappy ones) rocking up and lifting the standards at the receiving clubs because of their experience and expectations gained from the Uni programme.

Meanwhile, Uni get a new bunch of raw recruits to work on. Seems like a real win-win situation with some credit to go to Uni for raising the standards across the board.

Alternately, some players may actually not be as good as they think they are, and they don't like the reality that they may be forced to confront at Uni, where they aren't treated like Rugby Royalty and fawned over by sycophantic and vicarious Coaches, Masters, Parents, and Old Boys as they were when they were in the 1st XV in Year 12. Check out the number of posts in the Sydney Colts 2012 thread compared to the GPS 2012, ISA 2012, or CAS 2012 threads.

Credit where it is due as well please. I know of several boys at Uni that were not Aust (or NSW) Schoolboy rep players but they have worked diligently within the Uni programme and have consequently gained and retained Colts 1's and Grade positions over some players who have much better schoolboy rep pedigrees. Some players when released from the Schoolboy system struggle with the transition from 1st XV schoolboy star to Colts, and are unable to maintain their training disciplines, and form outside the School pressure cooker environment.

Maybe some impatient former Schoolboy Rep darlings need some HTFU cream.

Edit: Grammar :".better much schoolboy rep pedigrees.." to ".much better schoolboy rep pedigrees."

well sure they should get credit, and i agree some private school kids dont make it . but how many kids has uni developed like juniors , all they have ever done is take players from other places , and then declare they are the be all and end all of rugby , and now people believe it especially thier young players who know no better. until a few years ago , uni struggled big time , then they started giving out scholarships, on my taxes, extra marks , look at degrees carefully when your getting your colonoscopy,then they bought a club , because they didint and never have met the criteria of a 1st division club, so now they own a junior club.now they knock of players from western sydney in particlar at 15 plus ,i think uni would be happy just to play themselves, no disrespect intended to you but i think everyone should get real about uni

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

It's what his dad told me a couple of months ago but things could have changed since then I suppose.



Interesting that. I don't watch Colts because I usually watch GPS or Club; so can't comment. Maybe the remarks made were just an anti-private school jibe - or maybe this year has been different.

I imagine that some of the forwards have a bit of a shock if they stopped growing early and were just big enough to play a certain position at school in the first place. I imagine also that some props may have had to switch to hooker and things don't work out, and ditto for school locks who had to play in the backrow, which they may not have been used to.

Did you see any of that?
.

Lee no I didn't see any of that - players like Alan Alaatoa at Wests and Max Jones at Norths certainly handled themselves very well this year in the front row. As for back rowers players like Dombkins at Manly and Orr from Wests, Baldwin from Randwick as backrowers certainly handled the role of a backrower in senior footy. I can't for the moment recall any of the locks from schools transitioning into colts but will post if I can remember later (Lee's disease)

 

[Lee Grant]

Ah - you have LG syndrome also?

Thanks for that. I knew AA wouldn't have trouble after school because he's big enough and strong enough to cope.

But I thought he was found out in the U/20 Champs technically. To be fair we may be able to judge him better next year and even the year after - as he must have been one of the youngest props in the IRB tournament.

He looks over-weight though and I don't think that brother Michael is fulfilling his potential for that reason. I hope that Allan doesn't follow that path and can slim down - and start that process ASAP.

Salesi Manu threatened to be over-big but he has buckled down and the rugby world is his oyster now. He was Force Rookie of the Year and is playing in the ITM Cup as we speak.
.

 

[Done that]

Lee, if , as you say you don't watch many colts games , then presumably you didn't see AA & David Lolohea in action this year .In most games they were simply too strong for the opposition scrums & took
many tight heads/feeds against other teams. Brother Michael played the whole year in first grade this year.
Of interest , David Lolohea , who is the biggest of the 3 , was the leading try scorer in the entire club for the second time in the last 3 years.

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for that.

Yeah I know brother Michael played in 1sts (Grade) and that's where I saw him this year. I think the 20 y.o. is heading down the path of fat men - what is he, 130kgs? - and hence my remarks. Wests have him listed as 115kgs but I think that is wishful thinking. It could be that I mis-identified Michael but even if so, Allan is already officially 123kgs at age 18, and looking every kilo of it.

No, I saw Allan only on the training paddock with the Oz U/20s at Narrabeen and in a warm up game at Rat Park before they went to the RSA - and on TV, of course. He looked too big and seemed to be playing like it. I have no doubt that he would have killed it in Colts though.

I haven't seen David L since he was at school playing in the Waratah Shield (as part of that big bopper Hills team) and for CHS. He was a good player and an engaging character but he was another I thought could lose some weight, even then. He had the rugby ability to make one of the NSW Schools teams 2 years ago but he struggled to get around the park.

I'm not surprised either that a big and skilful player like him is doing well in Colts. [If this is his 3rd year in Colts he must have played when he was still at school as a few CHS lads do.]
.

 

[Newbie]

Ah - you have LG syndrome also?

Thanks for that. I knew AA wouldn't have trouble after school because he's big enough and strong enough to cope... ... ... ... ... ...

It is my understanding that Alaatoa is the son of either Brian (Wests) or Vili (Manly) the two book-end twin brothers that played for Samoa in the RWC in 1991? Am I correct? The other brother or cousin plays for the Canterbury Bulldogs ('Harlan Alaatoa').!

If so he has big (and I mean big) shoes to fill!

 

[Lee Grant]

Allan and brother Michael are sons of Vili, who played for Samoa in the 1991 RWC.

 

[tomasi15]

Allan and brother Michael are sons of Vili, who played for Samoa in the 1991 RWC.

Interesting side note, Vili was a late replacement in the 1991 World Cup for the injured David Sio father of Scott & Pat.

 

[Informer]

I understand Tom Wilson will be playing for the students in 2013 and will be attending St Andrews college.

Disappointing to hear that Brogan Roods is tipped to go to the Wicks, he had a wretched season in 2012 but his very limited time on the park for Uni showed he has great potential. I hope Uni do everything in their power to keep him for 2013.

 

[Tahboy]

Brogan is good mates with a number of ex newington players at Randwick and is keen to play with them again
There is constant noise about Uni having a few players this year not happy at Uni but saying that it must be a nightmare keeping a lot of talented and ambitious players happy.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

AFAIK Brogan Roods played his junior rugby with Randwick clubs until U15. He played for Newington and Petersham Club for U16, and only Newington School in Yrs 11 and 12.

He went to Uni Colts this year.

Throughout his latter years at NEW, he was part of NTS/NGS.

An interesting case study for any points system, or argument regarding who/which organisation "developed" him.

Newington (Year 7 - Year 12) , Petersham (Under 16), Uni (Colts 2012), Randwick (Under 8 - Under 15), or ARU NGS/NTS (2009-2011).

Also not included is NSW Opens and Aust Schoolboys "investments" in his "development".
I think he may have been injured and missed out on U16 reps, otherwise there would also be some claim for development kudos there.

This history of "shared"/"confused" development responsibility would not be all that unusual for many of the rockstar players.