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Lance is a cheat? Yes or no

Lance is a cheat?

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Torn Hammy

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
I like to watch said:
Didn't every single person in the final at Seoul get caught at some stage?
Not that I am supporting cheating, just making the point that at the pointy end they are all doing it.
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Jonson was 28 when he won in Seoul. He admitted to 8 years of doping prior to that. How many clean Canadians dropped out knowing that they couldn't beat him.

Same goes for Armstrong. Immensely talented riders like Christophe Bassons refuse to dope and drop out.

There is some irony in this article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/201...sons-not-bitter-lance-armstrong?newsfeed=true
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Hugh Jarse said:
There are some European jurisdictions where marijuana is decriminalised, if not legalised. If Dell Boy had indulged in that recreational pursuit in one of those jurisdictions, perfectly legally, then what punishment if any should apply. There are some Asian jurisdictions where that same activity is rather harshly punished.

Should athletes be tested for recreational drugs at all?

Passing consistent legislation across all jurisdictions to criminalise possession and use of performance enhancing substances would be extremely challenging if not impossible.
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Agreed. It would be impossible to police given the differing attitudes towards recreational drug use across the world.

Some recreational drugs would offer some benefits at the top level though, I would think. Amphetamines, for example.
 
The Rant

The Rant

Fred Wood (13)
I'm all for criminalisation of drug-taking.
Not rec. drugs, just performance enhancing. It's not sports job to catch recreational drug use. It is sports job to stop cheating. Why criminalise - one simple reason. there's money in sport. It's a profession and the repercussions deny others of lawful income or incur costs.
If I get a silver medal that's awesome - but it's not going to draw the sponsors is it. So what legal recourse do I have if 12 years later they announce the winner was a drug cheat and I get a gold medal given to me. That has in no way compensated for the potential loss of income or the opportunities that gold medal might have opened up. Or for the sponsors who tie their brand to your name - can they sure for damages? In business, cheating is called fraud and there are a million rules to get you. In sport - they just can't keep playing the game for a while. As long as the potential gains outrank the perceived chance of being caught or the harshness of the penalities - it'll keep happening.
 
stoff

stoff

Bill McLean (32)
Would the easiest way to criminalisation of WADA breaches be to have every athlete sign whatever the legally binding equivalent of a stat dec is in whichever countries they race in for the year, stating that they have not breached the code in the past 12 months. If you don't sign, you don't race. This way if they are found in breach they are on the hook for perjury charges in potentially numerous countries. Even if one country didn't have the spine to go after them, others would. It would mean that even after you have served a suspension, you would be liable to criminal charges in numerous jurisdictions in which you would want to race in the future. If the Belgians, French, Dutch and Italians (I doubt the Spanish have the stomach for it based on the Contador circus) were on board with aggressively prosecuting for the false declarations, it could effectively end a cyclists career.

Not a perfect system by any means, but couldnt make things worse.
 
louie

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
Anyone interested in this should download 5 lives podcast "cyclings dirty truth". Has amazing interviews with Emma O'Reilly, Christpohe Basson and Tyler Hammilton. I couldn't believe what i was hearing.
 
D

daz

Guest
So Matt White and Stephen Hodge have fallen on their swords.

I pray to the Aussie Sports Gods that no big name Aussie riders get caught out in the future. I suppose there are a lot of kids and adults alike who idolised Armstrong and would be gutted now.

It throws such a cloak of doubt over the whole sport that I don't even know if I can be 100% sure our heros like Evans, O'Grady, etc are cleanskins, and that saddens me.

I am sure they are clean, but really, how do we know? If the Armstrong saga shows us anything, it is that we cannot be sure. In that regard, Armstrong has caused immense collateral damage to his sport.

And I feel just a bit of hate towards Armstrong for causing me to even consider any doubt over Cadel's achievement.
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Cycling is where athletics was a while ago. There were massive problems with drug use in the sprints and power events. Either the cheats are even better now than before or the sport has cleaned up a bit.

It's a huge problem for cycling at the minute, though.
 
Ignoto

Ignoto

John Thornett (49)
daz said:
In that regard, Armstrong has caused immense collateral damage to his sport.
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I'm curious, why do you hold Armstrong responsible for causing such immense collateral damage to the sport? Surely those who have come out and admitted to be cheats should be held with such contempt as well?

I'm all for the hatred and disgust for Lance, but I think the love should be spread around to all cheaters.

It makes you wonder, perhaps they should just throw the doors open like they do for Bodybuilding. Let them go nuts, let them dope all they want, it's their life if they want to end it early. Remember, doping and taking the performance enhancing drugs doesn't turn you from a geriatric-sunday morning rider to a Yellow Jersey winner. There's still hundreds of hours of work that made Lance etc who they were and that is, the fastest guys in the world on their road bikes.
 
Jethro Tah

Jethro Tah

Bob Loudon (25)
From his riding and cancer beating efforts, drugs or no drugs, clearly he is not normal physically. Having read a few Lance autobios and bios, psychologically he is not your average human being either. His pursuit of a particular goal, for good or evil, would often leave all comers in his wake, be they friends, family, strangers or enemies, and that sounds to me rather anti-social. Per the article I linked to, I agree that "he will never admit that his actions were morally reprehensible". I believe his thinks he has done nothing wrong and that because of all that he has achieved he is above the law. So maybe he is at least part sociopath.

Until a couple of months ago I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The final straw was when his good friend (or ex-good friend now) Levi Leipheimer came clean. Alas no more. Lance, it's way past time to fess up.
 
Torn Hammy

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Paris Tah said:
From his riding and cancer beating efforts, drugs or no drugs, clearly he is not normal physically. Having read a few Lance autobios and bios, psychologically he is not your average human being either. His pursuit of a particular goal, for good or evil, would often leave all comers in his wake, be they friends, family, strangers or enemies, and that sounds to me rather anti-social. Per the article I linked to, I agree that "he will never admit that his actions were morally reprehensible". I believe his thinks he has done nothing wrong and that because of all that he has achieved he is above the law. So maybe he is at least part sociopath.

Until a couple of months ago I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The final straw was when his good friend (or ex-good friend now) Levi Leipheimer came clean. Alas no more. Lance, it's way past time to fess up.
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I'm sorry but this is so wrong. Lance Armstrong is a myth.

Everything he has ever said or written is bullshit as it is predicated on a need to deceive. How do we know he even had cancer? His books should be moved to the fiction or comedy section of libraries. I think his berating of those who doubted after his last TDF win demonstrated how his life had degenerated to high farce.

He is a cheat. He is not a great athlete and never has been. All his wins have been drug assisted and the value of his training was increased by these same drugs. His support of other drug cheats and his public bullying of those who wanted a clean sport was appalling and probably criminal given that the drugs mentioned are illegal in many countries.

He is a junky and like every junky, eventually their lives spiral out of control becase they always lose any sense of reality.
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
For what its worth, i was riding along this morning and this thread popped into my head.
If they were all on the gear then Lance really was the best!
 
Jethro Tah

Jethro Tah

Bob Loudon (25)
Torn Hammy said:
I'm sorry but this is so wrong. Lance Armstrong is a myth.

Everything he has ever said or written is bullshit as it is predicated on a need to deceive. How do we know he even had cancer? His books should be moved to the fiction or comedy section of libraries. I think his berating of those who doubted after his last TDF win demonstrated how his life had degenerated to high farce.

He is a cheat. He is not a great athlete and never has been. All his wins have been drug assisted and the value of his training was increased by these same drugs. His support of other drug cheats and his public bullying of those who wanted a clean sport was appalling and probably criminal given that the drugs mentioned are illegal in many countries.

He is a junky and like every junky, eventually their lives spiral out of control becase they always lose any sense of reality.
Click to expand...

No need to apologise, we're all entitled to our opinions.
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Well that about wraps it up then. The UCI had no choice really in the face of such overwhelming evidence. It does seem farcical to have no winner in the premier cycling event in the world for seven consecutive years though (not that there are any decent alternatives).

Where to now for the sport of cycling I wonder....
 
I like to watch

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Just heard on Foxsports, that a Texas Insurance company is seeking a return of $11M they paid Lance.
Some sleepless nights ahead of one Lance Armstrong..I doubt they will be the only ones.
There was also talk that runners up might pursue him for his prizemoney.
 
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