2012 IRB Junior World Championship

[Informer]

"As for the players who missed out on the Oz team - who would have made a difference had they been picked? Who were they? Sure the team lacked balance and they could have had more of these and fewer of those, but who would have made a difference? Why did we have to pick so many young players? Who were the better older guys? Australia was so far off the pace I doubt if a few better players would have changed things."


I think it has been pretty well documented already that there are a few standouts who were overlooked, including Donlan, McCaffrey and KIllingworth. I also believe Dunbar is playing excellent footy in first/second grade with Uni at the moment and how you could pick Merriman ahead of him and Donlan is beyond me, after all Merriman has been playing colts for the same club. Do the Oz selectors know something that the Uni selectors don't know? These boys are playing seniors rugby each week, which surely has to count for something. I really thought our wingers were so far of the pace (pardon the pun); I find it hard to believe we could not find 3 quick, reliable specialist wingers. Number 8 was a big problem, McCaffrey has been playing well in that position for Eastwood firsts and would have been a far better choice than the annointed one. At prop Guy Millar has been going well with Uni seconds and how you could pick a kid just out of school ahead of him is beyond me. I could go on but you get the drift. The selectors played two up and lost the house.

 

[qwerty51]

I just don't understand how the selectors can justify picking colts over grade players.

 

[twenty seven]

I just don't understand how the selectors can justify picking colts over grade players.

Don't we all!!

 

[Jets]

It seems from my point of view that we refuse to pick a team of players who are 19/20 as it will have an effect on the team for next year as they won't have enough players who have played in the tournament before. As a country without the depth of others we need to pick the team that is best for the tournament. There will always be some standouts that demand to be picked when they are younger but it shouldn't be a case of picking a guy because he is younger.

 

[Lee Grant]

informer

Killingworth wasn't available. He hurt his shoulder before Xmas training in the National Academy. He struggled on with it and even played for the Rats in the Shute Shield. It was when he went down to Canberra for the 2nd camp that he realised that he couldn't delay the operation he needed. I didn't know that until after the tournament started.

M. McCaffrey instead of Melrose if Killingworth wasn't available would have been my pick but would it have made a lot of difference given how dud the team was?

The selection of Merriman when Hingano had to withdraw seemed odd and you have to think of what the selectors were thinking, not that I agreed with them.

My mail was that they were going for centre Cox to replace Hingano, and indeed, he had a wonderful trial game v Samoa but he got crocked in that game at Rat Park.

Merriman did OK in that game playing flyhalf in the 2nd half after playing scrumhalf in the first. UJS looked poor playing fullback in that trial; so they might have thought that Frisby would be needed to play 15 more than they had thought when they picked the original squad with Hingano in it. Therefore a 3rd scrumhalf might be needed and they chose Merriman who could also be a backup flyhalf, a position which one of my scrumhalf favourites, Donlan, does not play.

You are right about the wingers and I wrote about the back three shortage when I first saw the names in the squad. Surely they could have picked players who had a bit of toe, but we have to nominate who they should be. My pick would have been Northam, but was that a critical difference?

You mention Millar who I haven't seen this year, but they picked Jeffries for the 2nd row who must have played with Millar in the Sydney Uni Twos; so they would argue that they did look at such players.

I feel like I am defending a serial killer here and don't want to. I guess my point is that the total of the selection issues were marginal in effect, and although the results might have been less crap with some alternate players in the squad, they still would have been crap.
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[Hugh Jarse]

Does anyone think that there may have been too much ARU HPU and "pathway to gold" influence in the team selections firstly, and then the Team Coaching staff?

Could be open to accusations of vested interests and "empire protection".

I would like to understand how much independence there can be when the head coach of the U20's is also a fulltime ARU employee.

My gut feel tells me that the HPU should prepare the individual cattle, and then hand them over to a third party to form the individuals into a team. The third party then is accountable to develop and execute the team vision, stragety and plan through the players. Completely different skillsets.

 

[Lee Grant]

A good idea HJ and the third party could pick the team too, but as Jerry Macquire said in the movie: "Show me the money".

One of the reasons the HPU guys do what they do with the Junior Gold, National Academy, and Oz U/20 programmes, amongst others, is because the ARU don't have to pay anybody else.

I don't want to get into the role of apologising for the ARU when I would rather be on the other side, but having spent a lot of my working life doing budgets and long term plans, I realise that if an organisation can't increase its revenue streams it has to keep a lid on costs.

The rebuttal to that is usually to cut down on admin costs including management perks and travel but those arguments are often facile.
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[Bardon]

Good point Lee. One thing I would say though is that the ARU have managed to increase their future revenue streams with the deal with the IRB relating to WRC revenue. However I don't imagine for one second that any of that future revenue is ring fenced for the U20s or youth development in general.

I hope that it doesn't end up like soccer where as the revenue grows so does player wages and effectively you end up with the same pot for youth development. Then when there's a decrease in revenue, like many soccer clubs in Europe are experiencing now, the first budget to be cut is youth development.

Also the top end of the game has enough political interference from Unions without them interfering in the U20s also. Some of the guys who play at the JWC will go on to be Wallabies one day, even more will play Super rugby at some stage. But for some it will be the highlight of their career. To think that experience could be ruined by some stuffy old suit because he thinks he knows more than the coaches because of some divine plan sickens me.

Doesn't matter how good or bad the players are, stand back and let the coaches assigned do their jobs to the best of their abilities. Then if it turns out the same, yes everyone will be disappointed but, at least they have the feeling they gave it their best shot.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I was surprised at how less physically developed our boys looked when compared with the other strong teams.

I have seen 20 year olds as strong as the junior Saffers or Poms, but they have been hand picked and thoroughly nurtured by the rugby league franchises and have started serious weights programs by the age of sixteen. These guys train at least five times a week and in general flunk their HSC. Football is their life.

Does rugby follow down this path? I know a world renowned rowing coach who has 11 year olds doing weights. Will Bruce be barking on about how the USyd. U8's lift heavy weights all season? I hope not.

 

[It is what it is]

I was surprised at how less physically developed our boys looked when compared with the other strong teams.

I have seen 20 year olds as strong as the junior Saffers or Poms, but they have been hand picked and thoroughly nurtured by the rugby league franchises and have started serious weights programs by the age of sixteen. These guys train at least five times a week and in general flunk their HSC. Football is their life.

Does rugby follow down this path? I know a world renowned rowing coach who has 11 year olds doing weights. Will Bruce be barking on about how the USyd. U8's lift heavy weights all season? I hope not.

Excellent insight TH.
Yes, it was men against boys when it came to contact in the Jnr World Cup between many teams.
The difference in physiques between Toyota Cup (Rugby League U20's) and Colts (Rugby Union U20's ) players is huge.
There are also plenty of kids under 20 playing senior grade in both codes, but the rugby kids are continually playing catch up with their physical development. Injuries often occur when they don't catch up, and they get disillusioned, while trying to balance work/study/rugby.

This now results in a massive paradigm challenge for the ARU and selectors;

Australian U20 selections have been dominated by former rep schoolboys. These schoolboys have gone through to Year 12, to maximise both their rugby and education opportunities. They do their HSC, have a break, and then play some form of rugby the following season while turning 19yrs of age (most of them).......they haven't had the time to properly develop and many still have boy bodies, although there are exceptions like Bam Bam.

Or, do the ARU/Selectors acknowledge that picking former rep schoolboys in their 1st year out of school will probably result in them having a physically inferior team AND therefore purposely go for kids turning 20yrs old in the WC year who are maybe less well credentialled, but are more physically advanced? .......the qualifier is that they must be obviously better developed and be able to play.

 

[Lee Grant]

I was surprised at how less physically developed our boys looked when compared with the other strong teams.

I have seen 20 year olds as strong as the junior Saffers or Poms, but they have been hand picked and thoroughly nurtured by the rugby league franchises and have started serious weights programs by the age of sixteen. These guys train at least five times a week and in general flunk their HSC. Football is their life.

Good call. I mentioned something like that in the U/20 blog I wrote. I also posted months ago that it was hard for the ARU to compete with the 15 Oz league pro teams in preparing their youngsters physically, since they did it locally. But the ARU could innovate.

They could liaise with private rugby schools who have the facilities and provide individual S&C programmes for targeted boys as young as they want them to start. They should keep in touch with who ever is in charge at each school and track the lads S&C progress.

For targeted boys who don't go to these schools the ARU should do the same thing through their clubs, which would want to encourage the boys to join their Colts team when they are ready, anyway.

Every boy in the Junior Gold Squads should be covered as a minimum initially, but the net should be widened over time. Younger boys should be added to the programme also.

Expense should be minimal. The important thing is to organise the thing and to get each school and club to cooperate - and to keep tracking that, and the S&C progress of each individual.
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[Rugrat]

I am sure that if the seniors came 8th at the world cup we would all be screaming for a change of coaching staff. As head of HPU and coach of the under 20s how can Nucifora critically review his own performance and those of his coaching team. What value has Nucifora added in his role as HPU director. The planning and implementation of the national academies has been pathetic. The franchises in Super Rugby don't supported the academy program in its current format and were left in the dark on how it would operate. Player selection for academies and in turn the under 20s was weird to say the least. Franchises asked to nominate players for academies but then they lose involvement with these players. How is this benefiting rugby. Seriously who is reviewing Nucifora?

 

[PaarlBok]

Wow stoked, great win and solid at that with 60% plus possession. Serfontein certainly justified his award as player of the tournament. Any relation to divan PB?

Not related to Divantjie. His dad is Boela Serfontein played more the 100 matches for EP CC, his older Boet plays for the Pumas and played from the bench against England for the North BaaBaa team.

 

[SuperGrover]

The USA will join the Junior World Championship in 2013 following their triumph in the Junior World Trophy.

It is good to see that a growing number of tier 2 countries are able to compete to win the JWT. From memory, the past few years has seen one of the three pacific islands teams yo-yo between the JWC and JWT. This year the final was contested by Japan (finalists for the past three years) and the USA.

USA crowned JWRT champions after epic final

In perhaps the most exciting final in the tournament’s history, the United States won the Junior World Rugby Trophy championship in front of its home crowd on Saturday. Clinging to a four-point lead over Japan, the Americans held up a desperate Japanese attack in the closing seconds to win 37-33 at a sold-out Murray Rugby Park, Utah.

The Brave Blossoms threw wave after wave of attacking runs at the Americans, hoping to find a break, but after about five minutes and a couple of dozen phases, they knocked on and the final whistle soon followed.

"That last minute, I've never felt so much pressure," said winger Kingsley McGowan. "You just had to want it. You just had to want it."

It was clear that both teams did and Japan, who were playing in their fourth straight close game, came up just a few metres short.

Japan believed they would win right until the end

"I believed until the finish that we would win," said Japan head coach Ryuji Nakatake. "They were so tough, mentally and physically, in the second half in the last 20 minutes. The players were great. It was a good challenge."

Japan held leads in the 44th, 55th and 61st minutes (there were a remarkable seven lead-changes in all) but couldn't just hold on. The Young Eagles’ other winger Noah Tarrant, who had a hat-trick, scored what proved to be the winning try in the 76th minute.

"Their team was blitzing up a lot, so we just decided to swing it out," Tarrant said. "We knew we had daylight. It was a blessing to have daylight and just run for it."

By winning the JWRT – and the Americans are the first hosts to do so – they will be promoted to in next year's Junior World Championship in France where they will face the very best Under 20s teams in the world.

USA wins promotion to next year's Junior World Championship

"It shows we're growing and developing as a Rugby country," said McGowan.

The Eagles' trailed by as many as 14 in the first half, but battled back to take the lead just before half-time. Perhaps the most critical play was made in the 36th minute by Tua Laei, who picked up a loose ball deep in the Americans' own territory in full flight to run in for the breakaway try. It changed the dynamic of the match and seemed to give the Americans belief.

"I feel like that was a game-changer for me and for the whole team," said Laei, whose hometown is just a few miles away. "We felt that if we put good pressure on them off of our kick, something good would happen, and they missed the catch. And luckily I was there to pick up the ball and run my butt off."

The Eagles used the momentum to press the attack. After a Madison Hughes penalty kick in the 39th minute, Tarrant gave the hosts a 15-14 lead at half-time. After the break, it was a wild, fast-paced affair with the Brave Blossoms and Americans trading tries.

Shunsuke Nunomaki, Seiyu Kohara – who led Japan with two tries – and Yoshitaka Tokunaga all scored in the second half. Each one came off sustained attacks.

More agony for talented Japanese

In contrast, the Americans used lightning-fast counterattacks to stay in step with the Japanese. Tarrant finished off an attack that spanned nearly the entire field, after taking a pass from Hughes, who in turn was fed by captain Will Magie. McGowan also scored with a blazing run down the right touch line.

By taking an early lead it seemed like the Japanese would finally win the JWRT after losing in the title game in both of the previous two editions (against Italy in 2010 and Samoa last year).

They opened the scoring in the ninth minute. After a long ruck in the middle of the field, they quickly worked the ball out to the right wing where a wide open Kohara, who scooted in for the try. Rikiya Matsuda converted for the seven-point advantage.

The Brave Blossoms kept the pressure on and 11 minutes later they doubled their lead. Sustained pressure and quick recycling was finished off by Japan's talented outside half and captain Jumpei Ogura.

They haven’t been at the top level since 2009 but they are certainly producing competitive teams at Under 20 level, a development success that bodes well as they prepare to host the Rugby World Cup 2019. Both Japan and USA also have an eye on 2016 where Rugby Sevens will once again be in the summer programme for the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro.

"The players can be proud of a silver medal, but I think the coaches have a responsibility to go above silver," Nakatake said.

http://www.irb.com/jwrt/news/newsid=2063193.html#usa+crowned+jwrt+champions+after+epic+final

 

[Hugh Jarse]

An interesting read from http://www.rugbynews.co.nz/blog/?id=128

By Lee Stace
FORMER WALLABIES coach John Connolly was right to recently criticise the state of Australian rugby and say it is ill, because it is.
Its condition is not terminal, but if someone doesn’t find an antidote to cure what ails it as far as player and coach development and the administration of the game at the top level goes, the country's competitiveness on the Super Rugby and international stage will be compromised.
Last month Connolly said there should be a wide-ranging review into all aspects of the Australian game if the Wallabies lost their three-test series against Wales. Australia swept the Six Nations champion 3-0, meaning nothing is likely to happen for the meantime.
But it appears that success has masked over some noticeable cracks in rugby’s foundation across the Tasman.
The problems are noticeable below the professional level.
The Australia Under 20 side’s eighth place finish at last month’s Junior World Championship was its worst result in five instalments of the tournament. It was a far cry from its recent performances, when the team made the final in 2010 and semifinals last year and in 2009.
What that dismal showing highlighted was the impact the Australian Rugby Union’s consolidation plan around player development has had on the game.
It was a move opposed by the Super Rugby franchises and with good reason.
Up until this year, the best and brightest under 20 players used to train on a daily basis alongside Super Rugby players in their respective states. Now they’re only practicing with guys who are the same age as them.
What that essentially means is they’re missing out on the chance to experience from an early age what it is like to be part of a fully professional set-up; missing out on an opportunity to learn from others who have been there and done that.
The Under 20 side’s form is suffering as a result. Those who saw the shock pool losses to France and Argentina will tell you that the side had a wobbly scrum, misfiring attack and substandard defence.
If these are the next tier of players who are going to be future Super Rugby and Wallaby reps, then it’s a worry.
The under 20 players need to go back to training with their respective franchises if this trend is to be reversed.
A second-tier domestic competition, which sits between club footy and Super Rugby, also needs to be established by the powers that be. One was set-up in 2007, but quickly shelved after it bled money by the truckload.
More pathways for promising coaches also need to be created to bridge the gap between club and professional rugby.
New Zealand has in recent years used its under 20 side as a tool to develop future coaches. The team is seen as an opportunity to give them experience of mentoring players on the international stage.
The Australian outfit, on the other hand, has been run by David Nucifora for the past three seasons. It is essentially his baby.
Changing the Australian Under 20 coach each year is a start, but again, the creation of a domestic competition would provide the best opportunity for promising coaches to gain valuable experience and learn their craft.
Connelly also raised a valid concern over the ARU allowing its boss John O’Neill to take over as acting chairman of the Echo Entertainment board.
It’s a fair point. Rugby in Australia needs its leader more than ever at the moment and what is he doing? Devoting his time to another organisation – a non-rugby one at that!
Perhaps it is time Mr O’Neill considers alternative employment.
The rot has set in and something urgently needs to be done in Australian rugby.
Hopefully this warning is heeded before its problems become terminal.

The bloody Sheep Shaggers must be laughing all the way to the sheep shed.

I think Mr Stace, assisted by Mr Connolly, may have been browsing the G&GR boards.

 

[p.Tah]

It's embarrassing when even the Kiwis realize what our issues are

 

[Nusadan]

The difference between us and the Kiwis, rugby is a religion over there whilst it's not here. . .

 

[Caputo]

IRB JWC 5 - 23 Jun 13

Sometimes I am wondering who is running the ship for the Aus U20. We are being left behind by SA NZ and ENG as well as host France
Here is a sample
South Africa has had a camp for possible selections
http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2064092.html#baby+boks+take+first+steps+jwc+defence
Pre dated in Sep England huge competition for places
http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2063476.html#huge+competition+england+u20+squad+places
New Zealand ready to regain crown
http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2064239.html#baby+blacks+begin+campaign+reclaim+title

I know the timings won't be good as the tournament will cut across 1 round of Aus only Super 15 and the Lions tour against the provinces.

Our pool games are 5 Jun 13 v Ireland, 9 Jun 13 v NZ, and 13 Jun 13 v Fiji
Match schedule
http://www.irb.com/mm/Document/Tour.../15/JWC13Circular2Appendix1-MatchSchedule.pdf

 

[Inside Shoulder]

this needs a 2013 thread

 

[Bardon]

Until there's a new thread probably the best place to post that NZ will host the 2014 JWC and Italy the 2015 one.