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GAGR Vote - Should Deans go after the EOYT?

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Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
The execution of basic skills is an interesting issue. While all of the players at this level should be able to catch, pass, tackle, run good line etc. a lot of it has to do with the environment that they are in. To maintain an acceptable level of skill execution these skills have to be practised regularly, at high speed, under fatigue so that when required in a game they can be preformed. From what I hear at Wallaby training most of the skill work is done as part of the warm up activity with no consequences for mistakes. Most junior coaches will make their kids do catch and pass drills with no mistakes and have punishments, such as running laps or other such things, for failure to execute.
The second point issue is that for players to preform at a high level they need to be in a good mental state and their minds free of superfluous information. It seems to me from an outsiders point of view that this isn't the case in the Wallaby camp. Deans seems to talk gibberish most of the times and confuse the players and unnecessarily make things more complicated. I have a theory that the reason that the Wallabies are so woeful in the second half of games is that he spends half time rambling on and the players spend the next 40mins trying to understand WTF he said.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Jets, an Ex Wallaby & Coach had us complete all fitness drills including a ball, hill sprints, stairs, "all drills" included a ball because you need to perform under stress. You need the ball to score / convert points.
The other - no game plan at all, it was terrible, and then in todays Daily Telegraph Robbie Deans makes reference to a long season - an excuse? Robbie is a smart cookie (litereally it appears) any oposition generally goes through the same # of games each year - it takes 2 teams to play a game.
Sorry that game against Italy was atrotious - there is something amiss - whether it be toxic, passion, game plan, - somthing is amiss.
 
N

Newter

Guest
Win in 2008 - followed by utter capitulation in Wellington where the team didn't even turn up. The game was over by 20 minutes. Win in HK for the dead rubber - a game the ABs didn't play anywhere near the level they had previously, followed by a tour that had more poor performance losses including to Scotland.

Thes best coach against the Springboks when he was up against the worst coach they have ever fielded. The best coach who has also achieve the worst ever loss to that team.

On every apex in performance you name there is a corresponding nadir. Under Deans the performance totally bipolar, there is no consistancy that truly great coaching systems bring. The achievements of the sides under his control are impressive the more so because they have been achieved against the additional adversity of Deans incompetence.

Those defeats have been no worse than any suffered under the John Connolly or Eddie Jones era. He's been a marked improvement on those Wallaby coaches, that's without a doubt.
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
Those defeats have been no worse than any suffered under the John Connolly or Eddie Jones era. He's been a marked improvement on those Wallaby coaches, that's without a doubt.
Interesting comparison to Jones and Connolly but I don't witness too many GAGR contributors using those 2 coaches as the benchmark.
We've got to aim higher in our expectations.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Alan Cameron (40)
I have been a deans supporter, but for me this tour has been the nail in the coffin
I 100% sympathize with the injury crisis, but barring JOC (James O'Connor), Horwill and Genia the wallabies are at full strength. regardless of if he was healthy, safe to say QC (Quade Cooper) would not be starting at the moment.
so at this point - i don't think the injuries argument holds up.
the all blacks didn't have carter and a 1 legged mccaw in the WC and they also had a 2nd rate scrum half - but they won it all.

Italy game was horrible. the backs offer very little aside from the occasional bright spark.

Italy is on par with scotland. yes they have improve significantly but they are miles behind nz, sa, argentina, france and england and even ireland and wales

that said - you've lost to scotland twice under deans and to samoa (who are completely underrated by most nations).

he's not getting his best out of his players day in/day out - and that is a coach's job.

if he goes now - the only real option is mackenzie or a coach swap with the brumbies!
if he waits till post lions to go then cheika becomes an option - i firmly believe cheika is going to turn the tahs around.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Interesting point of view, I think he has a point, to an extent

Gatland: Robbie's job would be safe in any other country

November 30, 2012
Sports Reporter
CARDIFF: Robbie Deans is in a ''no-win'' situation and his job as Wallabies coach would be safe in any other country based on the results he has produced, says Warren Gatland.
................​
''It's a bit hard when you win the Tri Nations last year, you finish second in the [Rugby Championship] this year, you finish third in the World Cup and you're number [three] in the world and people want to get rid of you,'' he said.
''Most countries or most coaches would be pretty safe with those numbers and statistics. It probably doesn't help when he comes from over the ditch.''
..............​
Gatland also weighed in on the Quade Cooper debate, saying the estranged Wallabies five-eighth's recent public criticisms had hurt Deans. Nevertheless, Australia needed the attacking edge offered by Cooper and the likes of Kurtley Beale, James O'Connor, Will Genia and Digby Ioane, Gatland said.
''When they're at full strength they do have a real four or five players with real firepower, that attacking threat from all aspects,'' he said. ''For me, those players are the real key game-changers, players that can force missed tackles, make breaks, but give you so many attacking options as a No.10 that you've got those threats around you.''
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Gatland: Robbie's job would be safe in any other country

Not in South Africa.
Not in New Zealand.
Not in Australia.

Who cares about the rest. Robbie has had five long years. Time's up.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
really? His record is better than the Bok's coach
Deans loses a lot more than Meyer has. A much higher rate.

The Saffers aren't singing Heyneke's praises either. He's worse than Divvy so far.

Meyer is first year in. Deans got some leeway when he started but now he's stinking up the joint after five long years.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Those defeats have been no worse than any suffered under the John Connolly or Eddie Jones era. He's been a marked improvement on those Wallaby coaches, that's without a doubt.

Funny, winning percentages would say that he is not. But I guess we are at least winning 56% with style... oh hang on, we aren't doing that either...

My memory is not that great, but I don't remember getting toweled up 22-0 by the All Blacks, or any team, under Jones and Connolly. I don't remember losing 2 in a row to Scotland and losing at home to Samoa under Jones and Connolly. I also don't remember losing 10 in a row against any team under Jones and Connolly.

But hey, the bloke "unearthed" a couple of players who were highly anticipated juniors at the Crusaders, so he must be a great coach in every facet of the role...
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
After the game last night I worry that while KB (Kurtley Beale) did a great thing for Sharpie he has done a disservice for the Wallabies as he has probably saved Robbie's ass. He'll be helped by the AB's loss to England too as it will give him more to argue to the success of the tour.
This tour can't be seen a success. We were flogged by the French. Just beat an English team that weren't in great form. Just beat Italy in a game that should have been a draw. Finally we beat Wales at the death in a game they (the Welsh) should have put away a lot earlier and with a questionable final pass.
I worry for the Lions tour as we wont be able to compete if that's the standard of play.
Bring on Super Rugby were I can support a team that have a game plan and watch 4 others that will be trying something.
 

aeneas

Tom Lawton (22)
Gatland is only saying Robbie's job is safe so he gets to have the Lions go up against him.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Gatland is only saying Robbie's job is safe so he gets to have the Lions go up against him.

Mate if my team had lost every game I'd lead against Robbie's, I'd be singing the bloke's praises too. If he is shithouse, what does it make Gatland?
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
After the game last night I worry that while KB (Kurtley Beale) did a great thing for Sharpie he has done a disservice for the Wallabies as he has probably saved Robbie's ass. He'll be helped by the AB's loss to England too as it will give him more to argue to the success of the tour.
This tour can't be seen a success. We were flogged by the French. Just beat an English team that weren't in great form. Just beat Italy in a game that should have been a draw. Finally we beat Wales at the death in a game they (the Welsh) should have put away a lot earlier and with a questionable final pass.
I worry for the Lions tour as we wont be able to compete if that's the standard of play.
Bring on Super Rugby were I can support a team that have a game plan and watch 4 others that will be trying something.

So so true
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
This tour can't be seen a success. We were flogged by the French. Just beat an English team that weren't in great form. Just beat Italy in a game that should have been a draw. Finally we beat Wales at the death in a game they (the Welsh) should have put away a lot earlier and with a questionable final pass.

I agree that the rugby played by the Wallabies on tour was pretty hit and miss. Our skill execution needs to improve dramatically.

I think there is a pretty strong recurring theme that the goalposts keep moving though.

3 wins from 4 tests on a Spring Tour has to be considered a strong result. If it isn't, just about every Spring Tour we've ever had is a failure.

2000 - wins against France and Scotland, loss to England
2001 - wins against Spain and Wales, losses to England and France
2002 - wins against Argentina and Italy, losses to Ireland and England
2004 - wins against Scotland twice and England, loss to France
2005 - win against Ireland, losses to France, England and Wales
2006 - wins against Italy and Scotland, draw with Wales, loss to Ireland
2008 - wins against Italy, France and England, loss to Wales
2009 - wins against England and Wales, draw to Ireland, loss to Scotland
2010 - wins against Wales, Ireland and France, loss to England
2011 - win against Wales
2012 - wins against England, Italy and Wales, loss to France

I want to see a lot more from the Wallabies and in particular, key facets of our game just aren't good enough. However, there has to be some connection with reality when we look at the results and assess how we are travelling. It is nowhere near being the disaster many people would make it out to be.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
I agree that the rugby played by the Wallabies on tour was pretty hit and miss. Our skill execution needs to improve dramatically.

I want to see a lot more from the Wallabies and in particular, key facets of our game just aren't good enough. However, there has to be some connection with reality when we look at the results and assess how we are travelling. It is nowhere near being the disaster many people would make it out to be.

Italy should have been a draw, Wales we should have lost, how many try's scored, it could so easily have been 1 from 4.
It was terrible, in other eara's we probably scored more trys in one half, if not a game, than we scored in the whole series.
For my 7 year old daughter to ask me, why do we always kick the ball away, we need to pass the ball to our friends to score try's. is a perfect example of how our game is being viewed.

Braveheart i appreciate a positive look, but our play was negative and ugly.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
It could so easily have been 1 win, a draw and 2 losses. Not thinking it is a disaster is personal on how you judge these things. This winning ugly style of play and stupid decisions in the coaching box and on the field are getting a bit much. You do need a masochistic streak to enjoy watching them.

I have kiwis at work telling me how much they think the wallabies deserved the wins. Then bring up how it's saved Deans for another 6 months they piss themselves. That Dingo still has the job is some sort of massive joke across the ditch.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I agree that the rugby played by the Wallabies on tour was pretty hit and miss. Our skill execution needs to improve dramatically.

I think there is a pretty strong recurring theme that the goalposts keep moving though.

3 wins from 4 tests on a Spring Tour has to be considered a strong result. If it isn't, just about every Spring Tour we've ever had is a failure.

2000 - wins against France and Scotland, loss to England
2001 - wins against Spain and Wales, losses to England and France
2002 - wins against Argentina and Italy, losses to Ireland and England
2004 - wins against Scotland twice and England, loss to France
2005 - win against Ireland, losses to France, England and Wales
2006 - wins against Italy and Scotland, draw with Wales, loss to Ireland
2008 - wins against Italy, France and England, loss to Wales
2009 - wins against England and Wales, draw to Ireland, loss to Scotland
2010 - wins against Wales, Ireland and France, loss to England
2011 - win against Wales
2012 - wins against England, Italy and Wales, loss to France

I want to see a lot more from the Wallabies and in particular, key facets of our game just aren't good enough. However, there has to be some connection with reality when we look at the results and assess how we are travelling. It is nowhere near being the disaster many people would make it out to be.

This using facts, meh, next you will be saying we aren't that good, haven't been for quite a while, despite till better than most, just no where near as good as the Kiwis.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Italy should have been a draw, Wales we should have lost, how many try's scored, it could so easily have been 1 from 4.
It was terrible, in other eara's we probably scored more trys in one half, if not a game, than we scored in the whole series.
For my 7 year old daughter to ask me, why do we always kick the ball away, we need to pass the ball to our friends to score try's. is a perfect example of how our game is being viewed.

Braveheart i appreciate a positive look, but our plus was negative and ugly.

Those things didn't happen though. We won both those games. If you're going to take that attitude then we may as well claim victory for every game we are leading with 20 minutes to go and lose because we should have won.

We are struggling to score tries and squandering opportunities but other teams are struggling to score against us as well.
 
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