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Tour of India

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Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
Also can someone please explain to me what it is 'High Performance Manager' is / does?

Sounds to me like they are the sporting teams equivalent of the Human Resources Manager, an overhead with no added value interfering in matters that don't concern them, creating drama to justify their empire.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I don't recall commenting that this was a relatively new exercise there BaaBaa. However, the problem here lies with the methodology. And I stand by my comment.

Self reflection will work when it is properly structured, and players regularly receive feedback to improve their performance. If the reflection is poorly structured, then it just an exercise in futility. Exactly the situation currently before us. Why poorly structured? Because I believe that Mickey is at a loss as to how to improve the players in his charge.

As I said though, 2 of those players have yet to play a test this series. Another has been our best bowler. Whatever the intentions of the homework, it was most certainly not the most effective way to bring the best out in the players. What we are currently witnessing is a team that has little direction, and has just unnecessarily had it's dirty laundry publicly aired.

Now, rather than playing the devil's advocate for once, let us know your take on the situation.


See I think you are commenting on things you have no idea about here. How do you know what Mickey’s strategy is? How do you know this exercise wasn’t followed up with extensive work on tactics and team performance?

Which ties in to my take on the situation, which is that it is very hard to judge from outside the walls of the team room. Was this a one-off, or symptomatic of larger attitude problems within the team? Because that is key to the whole situation. This may well have been the straw that broke the camel’s back. Given their sloppy performance in the last two tests you’d have to think these issues have been brewing for a few months. But I don’t know these things, so can’t really say for sure.

And I am not ready to heap shit on Mickey Arthur. This is not the first Aussie side to struggle in India, nor will it be the last. We performed admirably against SA and Sri Lanka this summer, and I am not willing to forget that in a hurry.
.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think that there have been ongoing issues and they decided to bring it all to a head with this incident by standing down four players.

It might be disastrous for an already terrible tour of India, but the thought will be that we have back to back Ashes series coming up and if we don't get our house in order, things will only get worse.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
See I think you are commenting on things you have no idea about here. How do you know what Mickey’s strategy is? How do you know this exercise wasn’t followed up with extensive work on tactics and team performance?

Which ties in to my take on the situation, which is that it is very hard to judge from outside the walls of the team room. Was this a one-off, or symptomatic of larger attitude problems within the team? Because that is key to the whole situation. This may well have been the straw that broke the camel’s back. Given their sloppy performance in the last two tests you’d have to think these issues have been brewing for a few months. But I don’t know these things, so can’t really say for sure.

And I am not ready to heap shit on Mickey Arthur. This is not the first Aussie side to struggle in India, nor will it be the last. We performed admirably against SA and Sri Lanka this summer, and I am not willing to forget that in a hurry.
.
Fair call. We are both speculating here though.

Let's just agree to disagree for now.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I think that there have been ongoing issues and they decided to bring it all to a head with this incident by standing down four players.

I am becoming a broken record, but my point is that there would be many ways of bringing the issue to a head before standing down with public humilation of the individuals and the team. Why not just fine them heavily?
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Players will have to adapt to the long overdue change in the mangagement of the team.

Change is always difficult for everyone concerned, but the days of Warnie telling the trainers how much exercise he will do before he has to have a durrie are finished.

Cricket is light years behind other sports in many areas for various reasons, so what is happening is a good thing in my opinion.

The big mistake as I see it, is that Clarke is casting himself as part of the management, rather than as leader and part of the playing group. Arthur and Howard will move on with the corporate kudos of change merchants, whereas Clarke will be left with the blame for the bitterness and pain of this process.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
I just don't understand how they can be living in each others pockets,eating and training as a team daily.
And a deadline seemingly so important to the management slips by, without a word of warning or a gentle reminder to those yet to complete their assignments.
Seems like a crap way to manage a unit if you ask me.
If there is a problem, address it.It's not good festering and ambushing people that you manage.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
From the News Ltd press this morning:

DETAILS have emerged of a cultural breakdown in Australian cricket with skipper Michael Clarke forced to redress a slew of problems including Test stars being overweight and turning up late to training and team meetings.

In an indictment on some of Cricket Australia's highly-paid elite, News Limited has obtained detailed examples of conduct breaches that yesterday led to unprecedented action from team hierarchy.
Skipper Michael Clarke and coach Mickey Arthur have defended the axing of the flagrant four, saying it was the final straw following a string of non-alcohol related indiscretions in recent months.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-boss-pat-howard/story-fnecrvvd-1226595952349
The pair did not detail other infractions and CA high-performance chief Pat Howard also declined to elaborate when he fronted the media in Brisbane yesterday.


But News Limited can today reveal the precise nature of general tardiness that prompted Clarke and Arthur to take action.

They include players:
SHOWING up late for team meetings and training sessions;
MISSING medical and physiotherapy appointments;
SLEEPING in and holding up the team bus;
WEARING the wrong uniforms;
FAILING to consistently complete CA health and well-being forms;
RECORDING fluctuating skin-folds, with some players deemed overweight.

The exact offenders are not known, but Clarke and Arthur became increasingly fed-up with the minor breaches they believe are undermining Australian cricket's professional standards.

Former Test stars have blasted the hardline stance. But it is hard to imagine ex-captains Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh or Ricky Ponting tolerating teammates being late to training and formal meetings during Australia's reign over world cricket.

Dumped paceman James Pattinson yesterday admitted his demotion with Shane Watson, Mitchell Johnson and Usman Khawaja was the culmination of on-going conduct issues.

"We have had a few issues in the team, ones that I don't really want to go into but it builds up and it is the final straw so to speak," he said. "We need to send a message to the team, not just myself but everyone else.

Underlining the attitudinal issues, Australian hierarchy had become so conditioned to players not completing a 'wellness' form they were taken aback when every member submitted one over the weekend.
In recognition of the squad's youth, Clarke and Arthur had previously overlooked the breaches. But after two dismal Test showings against India, concerns grew that flagging off-field cultural standards, however minor, were damaging on-field performance.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Another good article from Robert Craddock:

DON'T feel sorry for Australia's four sacked cricketers.

This day has been coming for some time. Around Australia yesterday, talkback radio lines were jammed with callers saying this was a classic case of a sledgehammer being used to swat a fly.

Of course it was but that doesn't make it wrong. Sometimes it is better to over-react than under-react, or even worse, do nothing. Standards have flagged in the Australian game.

In every state, there are players earning a million dollars a year who are plodders by international standards. Many are soft with over-inflated opinions of their worth who perform neatly within their narrow comfort zone. Some are overweight. Barely any Australian players have improved over the past year.

Many have gone backwards. Cricket's sports science standards are a decade or more behind many other sporting codes yet few sports resist change like cricket. The game needed a jolt and here it is.

Of course there will be pain. Australia will lose this series in India and struggle in the Ashes.
But if a team is not listening to orders from their captain and coach, it was doomed anyway.

Each of the sacked players face a different future, such as:


Shane Watson: Should never be chosen as vice-captain again. He and Michael Clarke were the most incompatible captain-vice captain this country has had for 30 years and the team knew it. Last year, Cricket Australia's board even raised the issue of the loveless relationship between the two at a meeting. It's difficult to see how Watson could be chosen for the Ashes tour because to win in England you must have concrete team unity especially in a plodding team. Australia simply cannot afford to have him sulking in the corner of an Ashes dressingroom. The selectors' fondness for him has receded in recent times. One selector who watched Watson refer an lbw decision to the third umpire did not even wait for the verdict before mumbling "you're out f... off.''

Usman Khawaja: For a qualified pilot he has a disturbing lack of awareness of hazards appearing on his radar. There has been a whisper on every street corner this season the selectors wanted to see him get fitter, field better and rotate the strike more before he was chosen. The selection panel is full of workaholics who mostly did not have the ability of Khawaja but trained their butts off. The panel's tolerance of him is low. He doesn't get 50-50 calls. Given he has not played a Test on tour, Khawaja's inability to spend 15 minutes making a few written suggestions for the team will reinforce suspicions he is a lazy, self-absorbed player whose confident swagger belies his modest Test average of 29.22. This is a devastating blow for him. He was certain to play the third Test. Now he is uncertain of playing anytime, anywhere, unable to appreciate that one of the reasons Clarke has become a batting superstar is his attention to the loose threads Khawaja cannot tie up.


Mitchell Johnson: A nice fellow who floats around on Planet Mitch, somewhere between Venus and Mars to the point where he may not even be aware he is in India. Like Andrew Symonds, who was once given permission to throw coach John Buchanan's computer printouts in the bin, he is not a fill-out-the-survey kind of guy. Form to him is something you strive for, not fill out. But that's no excuse. He has been foolish here because his future is resting on a knife's edge and could fall into a dark abyss at any time. His bid for the final pace place in the Ashes squad is under siege from Ben Hilfenhaus and Ryan Harris and his chance to fend them off may be gone.

James Pattinson: The player who will probably lose least from this episode for he is the only one of the four who is indispensable. Australia needs him as much as he needs Australia. A terrific player who bowled his socks off in the first two Tests, he needs to take this like a man. He would be best advised to ignore all the text messages from home saying "what is this ... a schoolboy camp?'' and accept that as a leader of the next generation he should be driving the wagon not dragging the chain.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...d-jame-pattinson/story-fn67x2wp-1226595871861
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Good articles Baa Baa.

My problem is the way it was handled with the admission forms and other indiscretions were ignored for so long and now suddenly, it appears without warning, they have had enough. This should have been addressed before the tour or after. Take the team into a room and tear them to pieces and say it will not be tolerated again. Now there are players humiliated and singled out, possibly resenting others who have gotten away with the same behaviour and unrest in the team likely high. The haphazard way they sent players over in batches while some were still playing for their county would not have helped so wait until the tour is over.

In my view this lack of discipline could have arisen from a rotation policy that sees players and even the captain come and go. They are regularly working under a couple of captains so if Clarke is fit he needs to be the captain if he wants the culture to improve. Few players are likely confident of being there from game to game and the toll that takes on the players mentally should be considered.
 

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
Good articles Baa Baa.

My problem is the way it was handled with the admission forms and other indiscretions were ignored for so long and now suddenly, it appears without warning, they have had enough. This should have been addressed before the tour or after. Take the team into a room and tear them to pieces and say it will not be tolerated again. Now there are players humiliated and singled out, possibly resenting others who have gotten away with the same behaviour and unrest in the team likely high. The haphazard way they sent players over in batches while some were still playing for their county would not have helped so wait until the tour is over.

In my view this lack of discipline could have arisen from a rotation policy that sees players and even the captain come and go. They are regularly working under a couple of captains so if Clarke is fit he needs to be the captain if he wants the culture to improve. Few players are likely confident of being there from game to game and the toll that takes on the players mentally should be considered.

How do you know all the previous stuff was being ignored? The fact that it hasn't all been detailed in the press doesn't mean it was being ignored within the team.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
How do you know all the previous stuff was being ignored? The fact that it hasn't all been detailed in the press doesn't mean it was being ignored within the team.

From the first article:

The exact offenders are not known, but Clarke and Arthur became increasingly fed-up with the minor breaches they believe are undermining Australian cricket's professional standards.

Dumped paceman James Pattinson yesterday admitted his demotion with Shane Watson, Mitchell Johnson and Usman Khawaja was the culmination of on-going conduct issues.

Underlining the attitudinal issues, Australian hierarchy had become so conditioned to players not completing a 'wellness' form they were taken aback when every member submitted one over the weekend.
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
When the heirarchy is surprised that every player submitted a form on the weekend for the first time it gives the impression they have not been taken to task for failing to complete them previously. I could well be wrong though.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
The test is starting shortly (and theoretically, we can retain the B-G trophy by winning the last 2 tests). No team announcement yet but all reports indicate Wade is still too injured (and he definitiely will be rested if they stick to their rotation policy).

So that leaves 12 and the choice of who misses out. It will presumably be one of Doherty or Maxwell. Doherty will theoretically bring more variation in attack while Maxwell has better batting prospects. I'd probably select Maxwell given our batting is weak while also telling Smith he will probably need to contribute some overs despite being picked as a sepcialist batsmen.

Clarke will presumably go up the order, so I expect to see something like:

1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. Hughes
4. Clarke
5. Smith
6. Haddin
7. Henriques
8. Maxwell
9. Siddle
10. Starc
11. Lyon

The ordering of positions 5-8 could be quite different though depending on the mood of the day.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think Maxwell and Wade are the two players missing out.

There was an article on cricinfo saying that Arthur had a long chat to Maxwell who then looked dejected and then he didn't join Lyon, Doherty and Smith who had a discussion about spin bowling with Rixon.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
And to make matters worse, it is raining in Mohali. To have any hope of retaining the B-G trophy, we need a result in both remaining tests.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
So Watson has had his kid and he's named his first born son after former New Zealand cricketer Willie Watson.

I have to say I'm a little surprised by the choice.

I do love Willie Watson's bio on cricinfo though.

Willie Watson was one of New Zealand's "dibbly, dobbly, wibbly and wobbly" quartet of medium-pacers who turned bowling wicket to wicket with slight movement into an art form - Rod Latham, Gavin Larsen and Chris Harris being the other three. It was clear from the time of Watson's international debut, when his 9-2-15-3 helped New Zealand to a comprehensive win over Sri Lanka in a 1986 ODI, that we had a miser among us. Watson would go for more than six an over in only three of his 61 ODIs. In 15 Tests, he finished on the winning side only thrice; his 6 for 78 in Lahore in 1990-91 came in a nine-wicket defeat. The 1992 World Cup was as good a time as any for Watson. Far short of being express, he opened the bowling, using his canny legbreaks alongside his slow seamers, with Dipak Patel, before coming back at the end of the innings. Between them the four bowled 250.1 overs for 1041 runs in the World Cup, and Watson went for only 3.81 per in his 79 overs.

107668.jpg
 
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