School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[scaraby]

To get the context, you need to go back a week or so when there were complaints from Scots supporters on the GPS thread that Newington had scheduled the 16As match away from the main ground because they didn't want Scots to beat them in front of a big crowd. I couldn't care less where they play, but the irony wasn't lost on me.

I replied on this because it is a bit close to the heart so don't be so flippant with your posts....you're better than that....the inaccuracies about scots u16s are incredible.

 

[Quick Hands]

Oh that's why I pointed it out..nothing to do with years of tradition of wher games are scheduled...by the way pretty catty comment on scots v kings 16 as where you seem to dwell on some I'll conceived idea of 10 out of 15 players on scholarships last time I read and ignored...check the team sheet .the injuries pre and during the game and then look at the potential team that scots could put into the 16s if the opens dropped back..then go back and check out the kids that have been there since year 7 ...then tell every one the 4 kids that you seem to be worried about..you still haven't mentioned any names ...then drop it and this whole thread ...and why am I harping on?..because after the joeys game ,the kids walked off through the joeys crowd to catcalls that an NRL first grader would have been gutted by...and to be honest I wonder how much is fueled by people who should know better.

I've never said that 10 out of 15 players in the team were on scholarships. I've never put any figure on it. Go back and check the posts and you'll discover that either some else might have said or it wasn't said at all. If you've been following this thread for a while, you'd notice that I never mention the names of boys unless it is in a positive light. Any criticisms along the lines of recruting/importing on scholarships/bursaries is ALWAYS directed at the school concerned NOT the boys or their parents. You sound like you are fairly close the the team and they are a very good rugby team - if you were following the GPS thread, you would have seen that I said something like that was a big result for Kings as Scots 16As are a very good rugby side. It's unfortunate and wrong that the boys were subjected to poor behaviour from the crowd. Poor crowd, coach and player behaviour seem to be more widespread in GPS rugby than ever before and the resentment felt towards the scholarships issue may be part of it as I'm sure is the way that these games have become over-hyped, high stakes games instead of schoolboy rugby.

 

[The Spectator]

Oh that's why I pointed it out..nothing to do with years of tradition of wher games are scheduled...by the way pretty catty comment on scots v kings 16 as where you seem to dwell on some I'll conceived idea of 10 out of 15 players on scholarships last time I read and ignored...check the team sheet .the injuries pre and during the game and then look at the potential team that scots could put into the 16s if the opens dropped back..then go back and check out the kids that have been there since year 7 ...then tell every one the 4 kids that you seem to be worried about..you still haven't mentioned any names ...then drop it and this whole thread ...and why am I harping on?..because after the joeys game ,the kids walked off through the joeys crowd to catcalls that an NRL first grader would have been gutted by...and to be honest I wonder how much is fueled by people who should know better.

Might have something to do with two yellow cards and one red card but other than that it was a really low key game played in fine sporting tradition. Maybe the catcall was from the parents of the boy with a broken nose after the spear tackle, or the concussion suffered after the punch to the cheek? But I suspect that was highly unlikely knowing both parents. Maybe the boys were responding to the poor gamesmanship - funny it was just like a game of NRL

Just saying.

 

[Quick Hands]

I replied on this because it is a bit close to the heart so don't be so flippant with your posts..you're better than that..the inaccuracies about scots u16s are incredible.

You're right, it was a flippant post - meant to be lighthearted, but these things look different in writing than when spoken. Rereading it, I apologise if it was taken that I was glad that they lost in front of a bigger crowd - it wasn't meant that way at all.

 

[Brian Westlake]

That's a good point, and well said too.

Brian Westlake I've heard of the schoolboy broadcasting in New Zealand before, and it had me thinking recently about the feasibility of such an operation.

Even though most would say that "It's only schoolboy rugby, boys should concentrate on studies and not playing on television" if the 'arms race' (as it's been so aptly named) continues to progress exponentially like it has been recently, with the players sole goal to play Rugby at a high level and not so much of an educational focus, it wouldn't surprise me if a national schoolboy competition like the one in New Zealand was implemented. If rugby ever got to that point in Australia a TV deal would surely come knocking soon.

If it does, will the arms race continue or even grow faster, eventually becoming an intrinsic part of the competition?

Maybe the best way to regulate the arms race and avoid situations like this Player X midyear entry fiasco entirely would be to accept it and move on. Having their college football games on TV hasn't seemed to stop American students from concentrating on their studies if they so choose, and there are methods imposed on the players themselves to make sure they maintain their studies.

What are the forum's thoughts? I'd love to foster some debate on the merits of this with anyone interested.

Can you just imagine??? The likes of the 2 "scholarships' R' us" in Sydney and the 3 in Brisbane will save a fortune!!! If it is broadcast, they make a squillion in ground advertising,call it the "Invest here international 7's ". They would save on print media advertising . It would just play into the hands of the old boy zealots whom would sit glowingly talking of enrichment and social justice. And all that comes from it is that player x that is recruited learns one valuable lesson in life when all of a sudden player A comes along and is, heaven forbid, better than player X. Player X soon learns a life rich lesson that he and his ability have just been shat on by the people that are supposed to enrich his education?
Just think? Coaches on win bonuses and a staff of talent scouts running around PSSA tournaments? Oops, that is already happening.
Have all these kids just decided to up and move state? Travel 4 hours a day to get to the eastern suburbs or south eastern brisbane?
The perpetrators of this need to be curtailed. They are embarrassments to the code of Rugby.

 

[scaraby]

You're right, it was a flippant post - meant to be lighthearted, but these things look different in writing than when spoken. Rereading it, I apologise if it was taken that I was glad that they lost in front of a bigger crowd - it wasn't meant that way at all.

accepted lets move on...and apologies for the 10/15 comment I didnt mean to imply that was you.

 

[Vegas]

Sarcasm Taipan. Sarcasm!! .......

Local talent from Illawarra, Alstonville, Townsville, Sunshine Coast etc.

I restate that unfortunately it has led to acceptance by many that continued influx of talent is the only way to win premierships. There is a 'clean hands' doctrine in courts. They don't like litigators coming to court seeking justice when their hands are 'dirty'. Some schools and their supporters refer to other schools emerging practices when their own hands are very very dirty. Probably best to acknowledge their part in initiating the arms race.

On a slightly different point, I am unsure how the tertiary entrance process works in the NSW schools, but out of interest, has anyone in Queensland enquired of the schools how these import, or mercenary, or scholarship programmes - call them what you will - impact the schools' overall academic performance ?

Queensland students sit the QCS Test to determine relativities between the schools, which then influence OP score outcomes. I can't imagine that any of these boys who are parachuted in for one or two years ( or even terms as it appears to be the case up here now ) for the sole purpose of winning a rugby premiership, and are minimally engaged in the broader fabric , let alone academic outcomes of the school, could do anything but drag down the performance of the rest of the student body of that year.

I am just interested if anyone has heard anything, as i was listening to some parents discuss the very topic on the weekend, suggesting grounds for potential legal recourse should the schools' academic performance, and by process, that of their sons, be impacted by these scholarship programmes ??

 

[I like to watch]

I think you will find many of these boys in NSW do not sit for the HSC.
Their academic result is thus not measured,and is not included in any stats.
Good for the School,not so great for the kid.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think you will find many of these boys in NSW do not sit for the HSC.
Their academic result is thus not measured,and is not included in any stats.
Good for the School,not so great for the kid.

Surely not?

 

[Brian Westlake]

I think you will find many of these boys in NSW do not sit for the HSC.
Their academic result is thus not measured,and is not included in any stats.
Good for the School,not so great for the kid.

I can guarantee that at SJC that all the first XV that were in Year 12 sat their respective HSC's with the likes of Tom Robertson > 95. Josh Kay, Alex Newsome, Declan ODonohue all>90. Plus others whose score I didn't see. Whole packages, not one trick ponies

 

[Spieber]

I think you will find many of these boys in NSW do not sit for the HSC.
Their academic result is thus not measured,and is not included in any stats.
Good for the School,not so great for the kid.

Or they sit the IB and do not get captured in HSC/ATAR results

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Or they sit the IB and do not get captured in HSC/ATAR results

But not as a ploy, I assume?

 

[Quick Hands]

Or they sit the IB and do not get captured in HSC/ATAR results

I don't think the IB would be what they would be sitting. I understand there is a lot of writing involved. Newington only had 17 boys sit the IB last year and 14 of those scored and ATAR of 90 plus

our IB students achieved a total of 30 perfect 7s for subjects taken across our total candidature of 17. Of these 17, an astounding 14 boys achieved a UAC rank (ATAR equivalent) of over 90
Source http://www.newington.nsw.edu.au/why-newington/latest-results/

I think sitting either the HSB or IB would be hard to dodge for the schools to maintain accreditation etc.

Queensland have a completely different system of assignment based work and moderators with marks/grades allocated to schools, who then allocate to their students. This is how I understand their system, but this might not be the full picture.

 

[forwards4ever]

I think you will find many of these boys in NSW do not sit for the HSC.
Their academic result is thus not measured,and is not included in any stats.
Good for the School,not so great for the kid.

You're kidding, aren't you?

 

[Quick Hands]

The perpetrators of this need to be curtailed. They are embarrassments to the code of Rugby.

I think that a points system is the way to go as when only a certain number of late starters are permitted to play in GPS 1sts and 2nds matches, it becomes an irrelevent exercise.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think sitting either the HSB or IB would be hard to dodge for the schools to maintain accreditation etc.

But almost every year come muck up day a kid gets booted from a private school - no one loses any subsidy (as far as I know) and presumably, given their age, its up to the kid whether they go to their local high school to sit it.

I thought there was something said about this last year in relation to a particular school where certain students only attend during winter.

 

[Quick Hands]

But almost every year come muck up day a kid gets booted from a private school - no one loses any subsidy (as far as I know) and presumably, given their age, its up to the kid whether they go to their local high school to sit it.

I thought there was something said about this last year in relation to a particular school where certain students only attend during winter.

There may well be ways around the system. If any GPS school in Sydney is a party to it, then they have completely lost their values. The only moral high ground that they occupy in these matters is that the are giving a boy, who couldn't otherwise afford it, a GPS education. Once that fig leaf is gone there's nothing left to hide behind.

 

[I like to watch]

They just pick topics that don't qualify for an ATAR.
Remember the gov changed the laws so that kids don't leave at yr 10 any more.So now there are any number of subjects that are designed to occupy your time.there is no educational basis for it.
So effectively there are 000's of 18 yo kids in day care in our Schools,instead of being educated.

 

[Spieber]

I don't think the IB would be what they would be sitting. I understand there is a lot of writing involved. Newington only had 17 boys sit the IB last year and 14 of those scored and ATAR of 90 plus

our IB students achieved a total of 30 perfect 7s for subjects taken across our total candidature of 17. Of these 17, an astounding 14 boys achieved a UAC rank (ATAR equivalent) of over 90
Source http://www.newington.nsw.edu.au/why-newington/latest-results/

I think sitting either the HSB or IB would be hard to dodge for the schools to maintain accreditation etc.

Queensland have a completely different system of assignment based work and moderators with marks/grades allocated to schools, who then allocate to their students. This is how I understand their system, but this might not be the full picture.

Sorry mate - too cryptic - a previous defence by one school to explain lest than stellar ATARs - would be surprised if many of the statistically improbable talented players are IB candidates, and may well, as ILTW mentioned, be undertaking non-ATAR subjects.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A comment on the Scholarship situation down in Mexico.

VSRU finals today. St Kevin's made a clean sweep of 1sts, 2nds, U16, U15, but very close games. No sign of 'scholarship' dominance, as was feared early in the season.

I really don't like this comment, even though I'm sure you mean nothing by it.

When a school has 10ish rugby scholarships and the next most scholarships is 2, with the rest of the schools in the league having none, you have to question the fairness. Closeness in results or not, their 1st grade's for and against was +546 in a 10 game season.

I'm all for giving a great kid who happens to be good at rugby a shot at a better education, but having such huge numbers of them is ridiculous and doesn't do the boys (as athletes) or the league any favours. The Rep players that are on scholarship in Skevs 1st grade played a total of 5 competitive games all year and 4 of them were Vic rep games.

It's actually shocking.