Sydney Colts - 2014

[Done that]

2013 Aust Schoolboys are worth 6 points. 2013 NSW Schoolboys are worth 4 points (might be two - going from memory).

Judging by banter on this thread and the Wicks own web page where that boasted of Kellaway, Deegan, Short, and a couple of others who to the best of my knowledge are new to Wicks, they will have to be very carefulo with their points, or have to play some of them in Grade.

I think there was 5 Aust Schoolboys (Vuni Fifita is still at New this year) as well as Kellaway, N. That makes 5 x 6 (Aust Schoolbooys) + 4 for at least 1 NSW Schoolboy = 34 points. Colts 1 were previously capped at 40 points. Not much space of the other 9 boys in the team. Guess they would have to be very loyal local juniors.

I have heard that the rationale for calculating points has changed/will change this year. Perhaps the Wicks knew changes were in the wind?

My information is that the colts point scoring system has been rejigged.
My interpretation, based on what I have been told,suggests that the most recent system effectively increases the number
of points to be allocated to virtually all players , with just about every one in first colts receiving a minimum of 2 points.
If this is in fact the case,then most, if not all clubs, will have difficulty squeezing under the 40 points allowed per team.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Would like to know more about the rejigged player cap calculations. No club loyalty discount points?

That will make it hard for some clubs. Perhaps the intention is to try and discourage clubs warehousing players. I can see it penalising clubs who develop and retain talent that has come up from within their minis/juniors programme.

 

[Blackers13]

Would like to know more about the rejigged player cap calculations. No club loyalty discount points?

That will make it hard for some clubs. Perhaps the intention is to try and discourage clubs warehousing players. I can see it penalising clubs who develop and retain talent that has come up from within their minis/juniors programme.

It's quite ridiculous. Parramatta started from scratch last year with mostly local juniors totalling less than 13 points in First Grade Colts most weeks. They performed well enough in making the semis. Parra have retained nearly all of that side and as a result will go very close to blowing the new points cap, not only in first grade but also second grade Colts, simply because of retention of players! What the system may cause is clubs rorting the system by naming players on the bench for 3rds, giving them a minute and then putting them on in 2s and 1s to negate the points effect. The GM's raised concerns over this system but it was overuled by SRU, so we're stuck with it apparently.

 

[Tah and feathered]

It's quite ridiculous. Parramatta started from scratch last year with mostly local juniors totalling less than 13 points in First Grade Colts most weeks. They performed well enough in making the semis. Parra have retained nearly all of that side and as a result will go very close to blowing the new points cap, not only in first grade but also second grade Colts, simply because of retention of players! What the system may cause is clubs rorting the system by naming players on the bench for 3rds, giving them a minute and then putting them on in 2s and 1s to negate the points effect. The GM's raised concerns over this system but it was overuled by SRU, so we're stuck with it apparently.

If the player is local then he is zero points even if he played all the games in 1st colts the previous season.
I believe it's about clubs looking after there juniors and stop clubs raiding other clubs juniors. This will help the Penrith type clubs get stronger but I guess clubs with a small junior base will struggle but maybe areas outside of the boundaries could be seen as local areas and clubs get country regions??

 

[The Butts]

Would like to know more about the rejigged player cap calculations. No club loyalty discount points?

That will make it hard for some clubs. Perhaps the intention is to try and discourage clubs warehousing players. I can see it penalising clubs who develop and retain talent that has come up from within their minis/juniors programme.

The SRU should be rewarding clubs who are striving to improve - not penalising them. Parramatta is a great case in point, working bloody hard to improve their standing, but being heavily penalised for doing so.
If "warehousing" players is what the SRU is trying to stop, why make all clubs suffer????? Doesn't really make sense - but then again . . . . not much does.

 

[Done that]

If the player is local then he is zero points even if he played all the games in 1st colts the previous season.
I believe it's about clubs looking after there juniors and stop clubs raiding other clubs juniors. This will help the Penrith type clubs get stronger but I guess clubs with a small junior base will struggle but maybe areas outside of the boundaries could be seen as local areas and clubs get country regions??

I may be wrong, but zero points for locals is not what I have been told.That was the case under the previous system however.

 

[Dave Beat]

IMO - I am disappointed in the SRU & the SJRU.

Maybe Pulver will review their standing and requirement, I'll put it out there, can it, scrap it, what success or enhancements has it brought to rugby over recent years (both senior & junior).

If I recall Sydney Uni turned around, bent over and gave them a lesson on astronomy (an eclipse) with no Uni Players playing in the last SRU rep team.

Possibly replace it with the body that's primary focus is develop rugby and the 3rd Tier - National Rugby Championship. This entity may even implement what could be called a pathway and include an U20 NRC team.

 

[Dave Beat]

If the player is local then he is zero points even if he played all the games in 1st colts the previous season.
I believe it's about clubs looking after there juniors and stop clubs raiding other clubs juniors. This will help the Penrith type clubs get stronger but I guess clubs with a small junior base will struggle but maybe areas outside of the boundaries could be seen as local areas and clubs get country regions??

I'm led to believe a returning first grade colt carries 4 points and the maximum discount is. 50% of that number, 2.
All colts players, including second grade are a minimum of 1 point because 50% of 2 is 1.
It means in seconds, fielding 15 locals will give 15 points, then you have to factor in non locals.
So it could be a real challenge for some clubs.

 

[sidelinesid]

One would have thought that the points system was known by those to whom it matters. The games are about to begin and it seems that there is still confusion.
Who gives out the info?

 

[Dave Beat]

One would have thought that the points system was known by those to whom it matters. The games are about to begin and it seems that there is still confusion.
Who gives out the info?

My tip from above came from one of those people.

 

[CTPE]

So my old friend CTPE ( aka CBS? ) - you couldn't tear yourself away completely either eh??!!

Is your young bloke going around in Colts anywhere this year? I hope so, seemed to me that you both had a great love of the Game!

I'll look forward to your reports from wherever - your Kings insights were great over the last few years!

All the Best! Wreckless

Wreckless old mate...he's migrated interstate currently studying at Uni of Melbourne. He's had MURFC chasing him to play via his 3 years in the JGS program up here but I think he's decided to take a break after playing rugby since under 9's at both school and village level. He has a few college mates trying to convince him to have a crack at AFL but not sure if that will happen.

 

[Learned One]

One would have thought that the points system was known by those to whom it matters. The games are about to begin and it seems that there is still confusion.
Who gives out the info?

Yes indeed .

The single most important issue affecting Colts rugby seems to be shrouded in mystery
Can someone please post the eligibility rules for 2014 as outlined by SRU in its entirety or do you need to know the secret SRU handshake to get access .
It's ridiculous that we seem to rely on hearsay to get some idea about the rules

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Haven't seen the 2014 guidelines, but here is how the player points system worked in 2013:

Categories
A (20 Points)
A player who has played a 15 a side test for a Tier 1 international Union

B (16 points)
A player who has at least five Super rugby or Heineken Cup caps
A player who has played 15 a side for a tier two Pacific Island international Union (e.g. Fiji, Samoa, Tonga)

C (10 Points)
A player who holds a current Super Rugby contract
A player who has played (i.e. taken the field) in 50 or more 1st grade games in NSW Premiership competition (in total across any clubs)
A Player who was an Australian age representative (U20) in 2011 or 2012
A player who has at least five SANZAR Union 1st division provincial championship (e.g. ITM Cup or Currie Cup) caps from the 2011 or 2012 season, Aviva (formerly Guinness) Premiership, RaboDirectPro12 (formerly Magners League), French top 14, Amlin Challenge (formerly European Challenge) Cup or LV (formerly Anglo Welsh) Cup in 2011 or 2012.

D (6 points)
A player who was an Australian schoolboy representative in 2012
A player who has played between 35 and 49 1st grade games in the Premiership competition (in total across any Clubs)
A player who played more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games at a different Premiership Club in 2012


E (4 points)
A player who is not an Australian Citizen, AND was not a resident in Australia during both 2011 AND 2012
A player who has played more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games in 2012
A player who has played Division 1 at the Australian Schoolboys championships in 2012
A player who was an Australian schoolboy representative in 2011

F (2 points)
All other players


Discounts available
Family
Up to 5 points for new players to the club (in their first year only) for siblings of existing players that played the previous season with the club or sons of past players.

Local
One point per year discount (up to a maximum of four points) for players who have previously played with the club or previously played with a local junior club between U10 - Open

Long Service
100% discount for five years or more service with the club for Category A, B, C or D

Experience
Discount for Category A, B or C players (up to a maximum of five points) of one point per year each year they have been out of international union or Super competition representation


Guidelines
1. The points system applies to 1st & 2nd grade, and 1st & 2nd grade colts.

2. Cap applies to starting players and fresh reserves in each grade.

3. Players are categorised at the highest level at which they have played.

4. Points are not cumulative throughout a season – each player is only indexed at one level as of 1st January.

5. Discounts are not cumulative – only one type of discount may apply to a player. Where a player may be eligible for different types of discounts, Clubs should apply the highest discount available to the player.

6. Discounts cannot index players into a negative score.

1st Grade Cap = 100 points
2nd Grade Cap = 60 points
1st Grade Colts = 40 points
2nd Grade Colts = 35 points

HJ Comments:
Where it seems to cause disharmony:

Points only apply to fresh reserves. Play 2 minutes in 2nd grade and you are no longer a "costly" "fresh reserve" for first grade.

Local Discount. 1 point per year. Sign up a boy from GPS School in Year 11, who is no longer playing for their previous junior village club, play them for a trial game outside the School season, and then they arrive in Colts after they finish school with a 2 point discount, and into Grade with the maximum 4 point discount as a 20 year old, and are on the 100% Long Service Discount in their second year in Grade.

Team Managers have to fill out an individual points assessment declaration for each player.
With trials under way for season 2014, the declaration form must be in circulation already.
Has anyone got a copy of the 2014 Player Points Form?

 

[Done that]

Todays trial colts 1: Eastwood 8t def Uni 2t.

 

[Hugie]

Do all teams have 3 Colts teams this year? Does anybody know?

 

[the baz]

Norths v randwick in colts. Two good games. Norths 2/3 play randwick 2's. Slow start by both teams, plenty of errors, but second term, more free flowing, running rugby. Randwick probably slicker in backs early on, but norths dominated the second stanza. Colts firsts was very even, with norths piping in the end, wicks dominated forwards but norths dominated in backs. Good day, even contests, and all bodes well for a quality season.

 

[the baz]

Do all teams have 3 Colts teams this year? Does anybody know?

I am led to believe Gordon today declared no thirds.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That is a 100% improvement on 2013 numbers from Chatswood.

 

[Tah and feathered]

Souths played Wests and all 3 grades were played and both clubs even had reserves in 3rd colts!
Souths won 3rds by 6 tries to 1 and won 2nd colts 5 tries to 1
1sts colts was played in hot conditions and both sides ripped in with Souths winning 5 tries to 1
Wests have a very big pack of forwards and build there game through there pack
Souths were able to dominate at the break down through there very good back row. Souths were very dangerous through there backs and had a big edge over there rivals who were a bit pedestrian but defensively good
A lot of penalties and dropped ball and pushed passes punctuated the game but Souths showed they have a lot to offer and Wests in wet or sloppy conditions will be very tough to beat

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Easts Colts were too strong for Gordon. About 8 tries to 4.