NSW AAGPS Rugby 2014

[Inside Shoulder]

AKA - you seem to think that schools outside the GPS are interested in doing whatever they can to fix the massive differences in abilities between GPS First XV's caused by you know what - CAS for example have a pretty good comp going and one of the traditionally poorer schools is winning which everyone, with maybe one exception, is pretty happy with. There is no talk of anyone having to drop out due to constant thrashings which is a good thing.

The fact that Grammar and High are gone from First XV and Shore are hanging on is terrible for our game. A super comp is not what is needed - teams made up of who turned up in Year 7 might be a starting point to fix the GPS comp rather that ruining every other comp.

I think the CAS comp is the perfect mix - room for one more?

 

[formerflanker]

Any discussion about super rugby comps or amalgamations with CAS etc must address the whole-sport agreement that comes with being part of the Athletic Association of Greater Public Schools. A narrow focus on what is best rugby-wise ignores the other 10 sports played between the schools, the long history of competition in each of those sports, and the well established administrative arrangements in inter-school competition.
Having some schools minimise their commitment to GPS rugby will have ramifications for all GPS sport.

 

[HFTH]

There are clearly problems with the gps rugby comp due to the lopsided games and only 6 teams. The NRL has a salary cap for a very good reason. MOST Games need to be competitive or fans will watch other sports and schoolboy rugby will continue to lose players to soccer and other sports. Some schools treat the comp as if it's professional sport and others don't and see it as a part of schooling. Either they all need to go one way or the other, and not in between like is currently the case.

 

[The Spaceman]

There are clearly problems with the gps rugby comp due to the lopsided games and only 6 teams. .

I completely disagree. If you had been to any GPS game EVER you would realise that GPS rugby is a hell of a lot more than just the 1st XV comp. Take Shore, a school that didn't win a game last year and yet there were crowds there as big as there has ever been, even at the end of the season. Grammar and High were relegated because the school stopped having fun at the rugby - and fair enough.

But this will never happen to the remaining six schools. It's just at the present time some schools are going through good cycles, some are going through bad and they've lined up perfectly.

Last year everyone wanted to watch Scots vs Newington play. This year the game of the season will be Scots vs View. Who knows, next year it might be Shore v Kings that attracts thousands of spectators.


PS: 2 things that grind my gears on this forum.

1. Suggestion that rugby is/could be promoted as a career path at a school level made me physically ill.

2. Calls for Shore to be relegated - Scots 4ths vs Shore 2nds would be more lopsided than if they both just played like normal. Ridiculous.



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[Brainstrust]

This year the GPS comp seems reasonably ok, with the exception that Scots are belting teams and Shore are battling. In the middle View are travelling about as expected, Newington have come back to the pack, Kings had a good win over Newington this weekend, and Joeys are 1 from 3, but have played the two top rated sides. The arguments arise from how Scots are getting their results. The bottom line is that schools offer many sports and are very diverse in doing so which allows everyone to participate in a sport that suits them. Rugby is our passion and we probably see the world differently to many. It is already a logistical nightmare for schools these days matching with each other for games for their boys, and I must congratulate them for getting it done as well as they do. As much as many of us would like to see the whole focus on rugby it will never happen. That is for after school....the key will be to get everyone back playing within the same guidleines, and that means schools actually allocating resources to the code. If you talk to Shore rugby parents they are extremely frustrated with their schools lack of support in a code that probably has the highest participation rate of all their sports, they can start there, and at the other end of the tree, well thats best for another thread. The talk of what a wonderful brand of rugby scots is playing is dubious. To me it looks very much like their physical dominance over sides is what is creating most of the blow out scores. Yes they have a structure that is pretty easy to read, just hard to stop if you can't man up. They are certainly the front runners, but they have also played Kings and Shore, who have had injuries and been expected to struggle. I have no real opinion on who will prevail between Scots and View, but it should be a cracker with 2 very different styles of rugby being played, beyween 2 fairly physical sides. Shore will improve, as will and has Kings. Round 2 could provide some interesting outcomes for the sides.

 

[Johnny come lately]

"Also, I am not sure that the quoted figure of 22/26 wins for Joeys over View is correct. I have a feeling that those stats include the wins that Joeys got over Armidale in the Cs, Es etc. in younger age groups. I swear I saw more "lost" suffixes when Joeys displayed the results at the end of the day.


For the record, 23/26 wins for SJC are the correct stats for Joeys v View games. View got up in only the 13g's where they beat the Joeys H's, the 14b's (B vB), and the 14 D's (DvD)
Sourced SJC rugby twitter.

 

[Jim Belshaw]

"Also, I am not sure that the quoted figure of 22/26 wins for Joeys over View is correct. I have a feeling that those stats include the wins that Joeys got over Armidale in the Cs, Es etc. in younger age groups. I swear I saw more "lost" suffixes when Joeys displayed the results at the end of the day.


For the record, 23/26 wins for SJC are the correct stats for Joeys v View games. View got up in only the 13g's where they beat the Joeys H's, the 14b's (B vB), and the 14 D's (DvD)
Sourced SJC rugby twitter.

I am not saying that the numbers re wrong, but 23/26 is a remarkable statistic considering TAS played twelve Joey's teams. That means that Joey's had 38 teams on the park Saturday! With so many boys playing rugby, it must be hard to get games for them all.

I haven't commented further on the idea of a super comp because I had nothing helpful to add. I saw the comp being limited to the top two teams from each school, allowing all existing competitions to continue. The discussion seems to suggest that the gap between the top GPS sides and all other schools is just to great to make it work.

On a different note, the full thirds results are now up. Seven of the nine participating schools have score a win over the first two rounds. Grammar remains early favourite.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Any discussion about super rugby comps or amalgamations with CAS etc must address the whole-sport agreement that comes with being part of the Athletic Association of Greater Public Schools. A narrow focus on what is best rugby-wise ignores the other 10 sports played between the schools, the long history of competition in each of those sports, and the well established administrative arrangements in inter-school competition.
Having some schools minimise their commitment to GPS rugby will have ramifications for all GPS sport.

and the proof that the other sports matter lies no further than the position in the year in which the athletics is run - which is out of kilter with every other athletics comp and limits the rugby games played in term 3 prior to GPS selection.

 

[Quick Hands]

This year the GPS comp seems reasonably ok, with the exception that Scots are belting teams and Shore are battling. In the middle View are travelling about as expected, Newington have come back to the pack, Kings had a good win over Newington this weekend, and Joeys are 1 from 3, but have played the two top rated sides. The arguments arise from how Scots are getting their results. The bottom line is that schools offer many sports and are very diverse in doing so which allows everyone to participate in a sport that suits them. Rugby is our passion and we probably see the world differently to many. It is already a logistical nightmare for schools these days matching with each other for games for their boys, and I must congratulate them for getting it done as well as they do. As much as many of us would like to see the whole focus on rugby it will never happen. That is for after school..the key will be to get everyone back playing within the same guidleines, and that means schools actually allocating resources to the code. If you talk to Shore rugby parents they are extremely frustrated with their schools lack of support in a code that probably has the highest participation rate of all their sports, they can start there, and at the other end of the tree, well thats best for another thread. The talk of what a wonderful brand of rugby scots is playing is dubious. To me it looks very much like their physical dominance over sides is what is creating most of the blow out scores. Yes they have a structure that is pretty easy to read, just hard to stop if you can't man up. They are certainly the front runners, but they have also played Kings and Shore, who have had injuries and been expected to struggle. I have no real opinion on who will prevail between Scots and View, but it should be a cracker with 2 very different styles of rugby being played, beyween 2 fairly physical sides. Shore will improve, as will and has Kings. Round 2 could provide some interesting outcomes for the sides.

Although there has been subtle shift in playing numbers at Shore in the past 2-3 years. 1 or 2 less rugby teams in 13s, 1 or 2 more soccer teams and this year a 13s AFL team. They still have a wonderful rugby demographic with which to work and it's really only in 1sts and A teams that they struggle - the rest of the teams are going quite well.

Of more concern to rugby supporters should be the trend at Kings where they are only running down to Es in 13s and 14s with both age groups having more soccer teams than rugby. As these age groups move through the school, Kings would be looking at only having 3 teams in 16s into the future (which is half what they have now)

 

[Quick Hands]

I am not saying that the numbers re wrong, but 23/26 is a remarkable statistic considering TAS played twelve Joey's teams. That means that Joey's had 38 teams on the park Saturday! With so many boys playing rugby, it must be hard to get games for them all.

Joeys have 42 rugby teams - not even Riverview and TAS combined could provide enough teams to play against them.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Although there has been subtle shift in playing numbers at Shore in the past 2-3 years. 1 or 2 less rugby teams in 13s, 1 or 2 more soccer teams and this year a 13s AFL team. They still have a wonderful rugby demographic with which to work and it's really only in 1sts and A teams that they struggle - the rest of the teams are going quite well.

Of more concern to rugby supporters should be the trend at Kings where they are only running down to Es in 13s and 14s with both age groups having more soccer teams than rugby. As these age groups move through the school, Kings would be looking at only having 3 teams in 16s into the future (which is half what they have now)

My impeccable source tells me that Grammar rugby numbers are growing and that this is against the trend in GPS.
Grammar's 16A's beat the Kings 16B's in a very good hard game on the weekend. Grammar's A's in this age group were never far off the Shore pace and will play the Shore B's this season.
We are now talking about a rugby problem - the numbers are not growing generally and the GPS is reflective of this.
I doubt its reversible and watching Georgina Robinson on offsiders yesterday she could not really answer the questions of the other panellists as to how long Australia could maintain the requirement to be playing in Oz in order to be a wallaby.
As ever, I digress.

 

[spirit of cupertino]

The Kings score was 69-12.
So I think that's 200+ points in 3 games.
.

Sadly it should be noted that neither the Scots boys nor their opposition learn anything from these matches. They are a travesty of what should be provided by the schools - close matches where you can try new tactics and test your skills.

 

[rickety knees]

Perhaps and australian schools cup competition done in state reigons and contested in a holiday period at the end of term 3 ?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Perhaps and australian schools cup competition done in state reigons and contested in a holiday period at the end of term 3 ?

already into cricket rowing and basketball by then - and just as there are little rugby empires in all the schools there are cricket, rowing and basketball fiefdoms that will not stand for encroachment into their season.
Which is pretty fine by me: variety is the spice of life.

 

[HFTH]

I completely disagree. If you had been to any GPS game EVER you would realise that GPS rugby is a hell of a lot more than just the 1st XV comp. Take Shore, a school that didn't win a game last year and yet there were crowds there as big as there has ever been, even at the end of the season. Grammar and High were relegated because the school stopped having fun at the rugby - and fair enough.

But this will never happen to the remaining six schools. It's just at the present time some schools are going through good cycles, some are going through bad and they've lined up perfectly.

Last year everyone wanted to watch Scots vs Newington play. This year the game of the season will be Scots vs View. Who knows, next year it might be Shore v Kings that attracts thousands of spectators.


PS: 2 things that grind my gears on this forum.

1. Suggestion that rugby is/could be promoted as a career path at a school level made me physically ill.

2. Calls for Shore to be relegated - Scots 4ths vs Shore 2nds would be more lopsided than if they both just played like normal. Ridiculous.



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I have a son at Shore and another at Grammar, and I went to Kings, so I have been to plenty of rugby games and have seen it all over many decades. I still watch the 1sts but now prefer watching the lower grades which is inline with your view but there is a problem which 'cycles' wont fix. The problem is that the # of students playing rugby is falling and the comp is now @ 6. Nothing shrinks to greatness. Unfortunately, the best import program is most likely to win the 1sts, whether it is rugby or any sport. This is not the point of schoolboy sport. The current situation is great in the short term for the school that wins but it lowers playing #'s across all schools in 3,5,10 years time. I don't know much about the Riverview rugby program but I hope they beat Scots.

 

[Jim Belshaw]

Joeys have 42 rugby teams - not even Riverview and TAS combined could provide enough teams to play against them.

Good lord, QH. Kind of put my little world in perspective! I note a later comment about Grammar rugby numbers increasing. It wouldn't surprise me to find High and TAS numbers up too. Recognising the problems created, the thirds comp has really energised interest among many who had given up on the GPS comp or indeed on rugby.

That raises a broader point. I have a largely completed blog post on certain aspects of the comp. I will bring that up. But then, I am going to concentrate on the rugby, not what's wrong. I am not sure it does the GPS or rugby much good to concentrate so much on problems.

The thirds comp may or may not survive, but its given this somewhat older codger (and the boys) a great deal of personal pleasure. I plan to enjoy this while I can.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sadly it should be noted that neither the Scots boys nor their opposition learn anything from these matches. They are a travesty of what should be provided by the schools - close matches where you can try new tactics and test your skills.

Unfortunately SOC, there are adults in coaching and admin positions in schools who take satisfaction from these sorts of victories.

 

[Paddogreen]

Good to see High firsts put on 50+. Long time since that has happened. After being belted by the 'Born to rule' crew for so long I'm loving seeing these Kings, Shore and Joeys OB's bleat. ha ha ha.

 

[Quick Hands]

Good to see High firsts put on 50+. Long time since that has happened. After being belted by the 'Born to rule' crew for so long I'm loving seeing these Kings, Shore and Joeys OB's bleat. ha ha ha.

My prediction (which was riducled by some) that High and Grammar would eventually become too strong for the 3rd XV competition seems to be coming to pass. Who'd have thought.

A way to go, but heading in the right direction.

 

[HFTH]

Good to see High firsts put on 50+. Long time since that has happened. After being belted by the 'Born to rule' crew for so long I'm loving seeing these Kings, Shore and Joeys OB's bleat. ha ha ha.

No bleating here mate. High used to be awesome at rugby. They beat us and came close to beating joeys who were beating everyone by 50 those days.

Oh, and a tidbit for those who think joeys hasn't been guilty of importing-3 guys in my year repeated yr12 and changed schools to joeys. All played first 15 over 2 years but for different schools!!!