• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

The NBN (National Broadband Network)

Status
Not open for further replies.
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
boyo said:
Too right.

The NBN plan effectively removed Telstra as a wholesaler (structural separation _ something that the Howard government didn't do when they privatised Telstra. If the government still owned the wholesale part, there would have been no need for them to negotiate with Telstra. Effectively the Howard government fucked up - but the Murdoch-media won't report that.)
Click to expand...

and created a new monopoly holder because that is how government initiatives role
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
boyo said:
I doubt that it was ever alleged that FTTP would be maintenance-free.
Click to expand...


No, but sometimes that is forgotten in that discussion by the haters.

We (the likers) know that nothing good is ever free, but sometimes the haters like to keep that in their dirty little minds like we think FTTP is all golden glory.
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
fatprop said:
and created a new monopoly holder because that is how government initiatives role
Click to expand...


Speaking of monopolies

Do you have two (or more) sets of water pipes to your home?
Do you have two (or more) sets of gas pipes to your home?
Do you have two (or more) sets of electricity cables to your home?
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
fatprop said:
and created a new monopoly holder because that is how government initiatives role
Click to expand...

As Boyo said above and directly relating to our debate on the other Government thread, without a monopoly driven by government no service guarantee will be enough to force private enterprise to build and maintain infrastructure in regional areas, especially the more remote areas. If we were starting from scratch today with a pure capitalist model vast areas of the continent would not be serviced by phone at a cost effective/affordable rate essentially making the services unattainable for many. So large areas of the country will be unserviced and productivity will drop.

The pure capitalist system just will not work for the egalitarian good in Australia with a low population density. No good for investors, but then I really don't care that much about investors profits with regard to essential services. Hence why I think such things should remain the province of Government enterprises (managed and run to private standards eg. Singtel) and truly guarantee equitable access to services throughout the country.
 
ChargerWA

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
All I know is the fucking fixed wireless tower that was stood 6 months ago down the road from my house is still bare of antennas.

The government is really going slow on the infrastructure they can't cancel that Labor had already signed on the dotted line for.
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Gnostic said:
As Boyo said above and directly relating to our debate on the other Government thread, without a monopoly driven by government no service guarantee will be enough to force private enterprise to build and maintain infrastructure in regional areas, especially the more remote areas. If we were starting from scratch today with a pure capitalist model vast areas of the continent would not be serviced by phone at a cost effective/affordable rate essentially making the services unattainable for many. So large areas of the country will be unserviced and productivity will drop.

The pure capitalist system just will not work for the egalitarian good in Australia with a low population density. No good for investors, but then I really don't care that much about investors profits with regard to essential services. Hence why I think such things should remain the province of Government enterprises (managed and run to private standards eg. Singtel) and truly guarantee equitable access to services throughout the country.
Click to expand...

I feel the pure capitalsit argument is a diversion as it doesn't exist anywhere. Yes we have a number of monopolies that are historical due to our early capital restrictions when these services where created. Yet I don't recall gas in all country towns. Some country towns arranged their own water supply and power.

Even in egalitarioan Nordic countries where distances are involved does everyone has equal access to government services

Most Australians live along the coast and there are other ways to service the bush with communications. We don't send 474's to Dubbo but they have an air service-- similar with many other things.
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Runner said:
I feel the pure capitalsit argument is a diversion as it doesn't exist anywhere. Yes we have a number of monopolies that are historical due to our early capital restrictions when these services where created. Yet I don't recall gas in all country towns. Some country towns arranged their own water supply and power.

Even in egalitarioan Nordic countries where distances are involved does everyone has equal access to government services

Most Australians live along the coast and there are other ways to service the bush with communications. We don't send 474's to Dubbo but they have an air service-- similar with many other things.
Click to expand...

Have you lived any length of time, over six months, in a regional area. Not a large regional town either.

When you have come back and talk about equal or even near equal access to services. I am not interested in Air Services, my statements are purely about essential services such as water, power, communications.
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Gnostic said:
Have you lived any length of time, over six months, in a regional area. Not a large regional town either.

When you have come back and talk about equal or even near equal access to services. I am not interested in Air Services, my statements are purely about essential services such as water, power, communications.
Click to expand...



If you going to restrict people from expressing a view just becuase I don't or have not live there then most of these blogs would shut. Who is a climate scientist, level 3 rugby coach, murdered anyone, etc etc

Doesn't mean what I have expressed is not valid about telecommunications provision etc. I did refer to water, power
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Runner said:
If you going to restrict people from expressing a view just becuase I don't or have not live there then most of these blogs would shut. Who is a climate scientist, level 3 rugby coach, murdered anyone, etc etc

Doesn't mean what I have expressed is not valid about telecommunications provision etc. I did refer to water, power
Click to expand...

I am saying that you do not see an issue with the service levels and quote flight services to Dubbo as an example. I invite you to inform your opinion and experience the service levels and compare them to major centres and then the capital cities. This is of utmost importance in terms of national productivity since these regional areas are the key to Agricultural production which does in fact employ more people (directly and indirectly) than mining.

I lived in Sydney for too many years. I then moved to regional NSW, living and working in townships from 25,000 to 600 people. I live in a nice little place of about 5K now. I worked in the Public Service and ran my own small to medium businesses, so I got to see the "red tape" from both sides along with the gross deterioration of Infrastructure in the regional areas that took generations to build. It is Ironic that in large areas of the US they are bemoaning similar deterioration of infrastructure in regional, and even some major cities.
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Good article:-

Attack of the NBN zealots

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/10/10/technology/attack-nbn-zealots

"The ‘NBN Tax’ and the fate of universal service

The Vertigan panel’s final report included a number of other recommendations that just can’t be taken seriously in the current climate. The proposal for NBN Co to charge greenfield developers for fibre installation, the removal of the cross-subsidy for regional and remote Australia effectively ending universal service and giving a green light to TPG to continue its FTTB rollout were just a few of the more contentious recommendations.

NBN Co is a natural monopoly, just as power, water and gas distribution are also natural monopolies. It is time for the government to put the “economic zealots” back into their box and take a fresh approach to solving the telecommunication market chaos facing Australia. The government would be wise to take a close look at New Zealand and to think hard."
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Gnostic said:
I am saying that you do not see an issue with the service levels and quote flight services to Dubbo as an example. I invite you to inform your opinion and experience the service levels and compare them to major centres and then the capital cities. This is of utmost importance in terms of national productivity since these regional areas are the key to Agricultural production which does in fact employ more people (directly and indirectly) than mining.

I lived in Sydney for too many years. I then moved to regional NSW, living and working in townships from 25,000 to 600 people. I live in a nice little place of about 5K now. I worked in the Public Service and ran my own small to medium businesses, so I got to see the "red tape" from both sides along with the gross deterioration of Infrastructure in the regional areas that took generations to build. It is Ironic that in large areas of the US they are bemoaning similar deterioration of infrastructure in regional, and even some major cities.
Click to expand...

Agriculture and minig employ about 8 to 10% of the workforce. 95% of Australians live on the coast or within 200 km. Services will be provided but they will never be at the same level for every village or hamlet. That even applies in more densely populated locations in Europe.

As our society changes its locations( rural urban drift) infracture will follow in it's departure with the people. Look at the size of Ballarat today compared to the gold rush period or many other regional centres.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top