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England v Australia

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Wendell

Stan Wickham (3)
The Wallabies were completely out played especially in the crucial areas of test rugby - set piece and the kicking game. Australia will not win a world cup with Foley at 10. His long kick is a pitching wedge at best and he continually kicks the ball down the opposition back 3s throats. Where was the short kicking game? Generally a good option against rushing defence to put them in two minds. I also have question marks over his ability to manage a game at test level when the pressure is on. After the Bledisloe in Brisbane every man and his dog attacked Nic White for his box kick. But if you watch the game closely over again he gets no direction from Foley and the Wallabies attack shutdown and tightened up which is asking for trouble against the ABs defence when they are chasing a game. In Brisbane when did the Wallabies have success? When they played with width to their big men in TK and Israel. All of a sudden the game was on the line and what does Foley do, he goes missing. IMO the Tahs gameplan will not work in test rugby and that is what Cheika is trying to do - play a tahs game in yellow jerseys. All we are doing is playing the game between the 15m lines (unless we go wide initially) which makes life very easy for the defence. In multi-phase the forwards at times look lost and this is leading to turnovers. Why are we not simply exhausting the opposition defence? Then play off a sideline with the option to then hit back a shortside??? We are also persisting with playing out the back to try and get on the outside of the opposition rushing defence. Go through the middle of them (as Horne did) with options off First Receivers hip both inside and outside. Who generally defends these channels? Tight forwards!! Can the English T5 scrimmage? Certainly. Do they move well laterally in defence? No. Can they be exposed when under fatigue? 100%.
The main issues with the scrum is that guys like Hooper simply do not want to scrummage which automatically means the Wallabies are under manned. You just cant do this at test level. McMahon and McCalman are also guilty of this. The main issue is at hooker though. Saia has been found out on this tour and simply cannot scrimmage at the same level of Moore and TPN. He struggles to pin his shoulders down which allows the opposition Hooker to create a 2 on 1 generally with the LH attacking the TH. You saw this last night with Kepu in all sorts.
With the Maul defence I cant believe we did not try the tactic of not committing anyone to the maul to force an obstruction penalty. Surely they knew England were going to maul all day. By using the not committing tactic it annoys the opposition and puts them in two minds. If used successfully it gets under the skin of opposition.
The LO is struggling (again missing the best throw in the world in Moore) and you would have to think the ARU are regretting losing LO technicians like Mowen and Kimlin. They lost 3 LOs last night throwing to the zone being defended by Courtney Laws who appears to be a world class athlete and lock. Again you would think through analysis they would have planned to throw away from Laws. Re selection you cannot play Hooper and McMahon in the same team. Going into a test with 3 jumpers limits the LO significantly. Why did the Smith & Waugh combination never work? Because it impacted the LO. This was clearly evident in the 2003 world cup final where Matt Cockbain was left on the bench and Wallabies LO struggled all night. When Poey is fit he needs to start (need an on baller to pressure the opposition ball) then you bring Hooper off the bench for impact. Fardy has to start at 6 again for his on ball pressure and his LO work.
Anyway these are my thoughts only. Plenty of positives. To'omua was outstanding at 12 and is a must have. QC (Quade Cooper) is starting to find his feet and will be better for the tour. Moore, TPN, Fardy, Pocock, Palu, Higginbotham, JOC (James O'Connor) and TK are all quality players and they will add strength and depth to the squad for 2015. My tip is for Adam Coleman to be at the world cup. He is an athlete with aggression. Another season of S15 will have him ready for the WC. Enjoy the off-season. Will not be long and S15 trials will be on.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
My understanding (not being a scrum guru) is that there is no specific offence relating to a front rower popping up in the scrum, rather that they are obliged to remain bound to their supports at all times. It is likely that a prop or hooker popping will lose his bind and that is the reason for a penalty but popping is not an offence per se.

Which goes to my point. There are a myriad of possible penalties and free kicks at every scrum, but some are enforced fanatically, others not enforced at all and in many cases it's a 50/50 lottery decided at the whim of the referee.

In most of those early scrums in which we were penalised the English loose head was angling in at about 45 degress, which is what caused the scrum to twist, yet we were penalised for not pushing square. On some occasions his backside was almost pointing at the referee. Add to that, at the one on the English goal line the ball was fed at 45 degrees.

The English clearly knew how Garces was going to referee the scrum, à la Poite - the penalty always goes to the dominant scrum regardless of who infringed.
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
^^^ whilst I entirely agree with you in principle QH, we aren't going to be successful in lobbying to 'World Rugby' about the issues, so the only sustainable way to address this is to ensure we have said dominant scrum..a lot easier said than done, but we are getting better..
 

Lorenzo

Colin Windon (37)
Uncertainty as to law enforcement is just another reason to play the game in the opposition half. That won't happen though as it's not part of the objective we have of looking good whilst losing.
 

Shiggins

Simon Poidevin (60)
I've watched the game now. Your whingeing about the ref is completely unfounded. England forwards were frankly awesome. Their backs were shit. However for you to say australia were better team confirms that you are still drinking your own urine
Hahaha. "Drinking my own urine" that's awesome. Australia the better side. In fact we should of won the last 3 games but somehow lacked some killer instinct. All of those games were very winable but we just didn't have the patience to finish off. We can take a lot out of this tour. We are on the rise! I know a loss is a loss but we had ample chances to win all games and probably should of. Plenty of positives. Quade has been magic off the bench. The defence just seems to hold off him. We are developing depth and with guys like Moore tpn JOC (James O'Connor) Charles fardy pocock and sio to come back and guys like spieght, Skelton and mcmahn needing test time to improve and settle in we are in good stead. Those names in the forwards will go a long way to strengthen our pack and the backs are already world class. Best example is the try we scored against Ireland last week. That try could win try of the year for this season even though it's early.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
^^^ whilst I entirely agree with you in principle QH, we aren't going to be successful in lobbying to 'World Rugby' about the issues, so the only sustainable way to address this is to ensure we have said dominant scrum..a lot easier said than done, but we are getting better..

Absolutely agree. No doubt in the world that we need to improve (significantly) our scrummaging. There's no logical reason why we are so far behind the other Tier 1 nations in this aspect of the game. It's something which goes far deeper than the current coach, or Link, or Deans.

How Cheika turns this around in 10 months is a challenge of epic proportions. Clearly there needs to be technical coaching changes - this is an area of the game that we have been so second rate at for so long at the international level, IMO someone from overseas is required.

The other perennial issue is that lack of ability to kick from the hand. In a country full of Aussie rules kicking coaches, this one defies belief.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
I don't think his a distant second to anyone, but he is still second. He's a better 13 then winger. I won't mention his passing.

Every one bangs on about AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s passing but he makes more line breaks than most - he was brilliant today and one of best players on field so think such criticism on this game unwarranted....

I actually don't think there is much between AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and TK for my mind as 13....AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not best wing option but brilliant 13....and one of worlds best along with TK.....

Given him his due....he played very very well against England....
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I like your summation and agree with most of it, but I'm not as sure as you are that the defensive setup is really working. There are quite a few posters pointing out that Henry and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have been caught out in defense in their games on the wing, and I think some overhead shots last night show why. The backline is so compacted in defense, our winger is lining up against the second or third attacker from the sideline. This has led to both the Irish and the English making good ground on occasions down the sideline, and the main reason there haven't been more tries scored against us has been the effectiveness of the cover defense imo. The compacted defensive line also seems to explain why the kicking option has been good for our opponents with a good proportion of their tries coming off kicks down the sideline in behind our widest defender.

The other reason there haven't been so many line breaks against us has been the solid rush defense/tackling of Matt To'omua and Tevita Kuridrani shutting down a lot of their backline moves.


I understand what you are saying but don't have an issue with it now that everyone is starting to get the hand of it. Basically because they are not giving up the gain line easily to anybody. The four tests saw basically a Jakeball game that found the Wallabies out because nobody can kick it back.

That differs from the up and in narrow defence that Link was using which saw the wings exposed just as much but the defensive line also surrendering a lot of ground all the time.
 

FilthRugby

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I've watch different replays of this game a few times. One major positive was how well Matt To'omua played.

On a side note: AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was outstanding for me. He ran some fantastic lines and made plenty of metres, even with an injured shoulder.

So, our centre-pairing really stood up for me, irrespective of some small errors.
 

Shiggins

Simon Poidevin (60)
Sorry, you talking about Wales or Australia?

Must be some kind of weird echo on this site.
Did u watch the wallabie games? We were on the French line with minutes to go and blew it. Would of won the game. I think they had a yellow as well. Ireland the same. Last night we blew a. couple more trys and one with 5 min left that would of put us in front.

Wales was probably the game we should of lost.
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Did u watch the wallabie games? We were on the French line with minutes to go and blew it. Would of won the game. I think they had a yellow as well. Ireland the same. Last night we blew a. couple more trys and one with 5 min left that would of put us in front.
Of course I did and without taking mind altering drugs. Like I said. Heard this before, or something v v similar. Think I might have sung the same refrain more than a few times in the past few years.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
Every one bangs on about AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s passing but he makes more line breaks than most - he was brilliant today and one of best players on field so think such criticism on this game unwarranted..

I actually don't think there is much between AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and TK for my mind as 13..AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not best wing option but brilliant 13..and one of worlds best along with TK...

Given him his due..he played very very well against England..


That why Dwyer wants to play them together. TK is so brutal in contact on both sides of the ball, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has so much guile.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
We have literally shuffled players through every other position in the backline this year. There have been multiple starters at 9-14, but not 15.

We could conceivably play AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor) or Mogg in the 15 position.

The world cup is going to require a lot more tactical kicking than we are capable of right now, especially at the fullback position.

Otherwise, what's the solution to getting pinned in our own half? Hope we can run it out? Last night the solution was "concede points then go to kick off". Is that really our strategy?


I'm tipping JOC (James O'Connor) as a winger next year. That will help with the kicking. Plus if Quade is the 10, he will naturally drop back to fullback on occasion, and Folau at least can clear it decently. Also if Nic White, or an in-form Genia is at half-back then they can be great kickers too when they are on.

So this IMO will be sufficient. Plan B would be to teach Mogg how to tackle.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I've been long time fan of Simmons on this forum, and i think he has improved to a fairly reasonable test player, he isn't going to strike fear into the opposition but he has a technical skillet at the set-piece which is currently unmatched in Australia Rugby, so whilst physically he mightn't be the most dynamic player he has the technical skill set to really justify his selection.

His ball running ability is still quite rubbish though, high centre of gravity and slow acceleration mean he is easily brought down and makes little impact.

Forget about Simmons. You have just described the common problem in Australian rugby.
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
That why Dwyer wants to play them together. TK is so brutal in contact on both sides of the ball, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has so much guile.

If something happened to To'omua and Hunt isn't a 12 option it wouldn't be dumb to do it..I wouldn't go there until both of those happen though..
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
I'm big fan of Foley but the speed of Quades pass is so impressive. It gets to those outside him just a fraction quicker than Foleys which allows the backs to make more ground.

I'm a bit concerned about Speight. His attack is impressive as always, he can tackle well, but his defence read and positional play seems to be lacking at this level. Nothing that can't be fixed but he was out of position on quite a few occasions on this tour.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I'm tipping JOC (James O'Connor) as a winger next year. That will help with the kicking. Plus if Quade is the 10, he will naturally drop back to fullback on occasion, and Folau at least can clear it decently. Also if Nic White, or an in-form Genia is at half-back then they can be great kickers too when they are on.

So this IMO will be sufficient. Plan B would be to teach Mogg how to tackle.

If JOC (James O'Connor) can replicate the form he's showing as a winger in French Top 14, he will be the first winger picked. Speight has enormous potential, but made a couple of bad reads in defence, allowed himself to be pushed out on or around the half way line and generally looked exactly what he is - raw and inexperienced at this level. He's certainly worth persevering with, I'll be interested to see how he goes in super 15 and TRC.

On current form Phipps will be 9, White's ahead of Genia, but if Burgess can play the sort of game that Phipps is playing i.e. passing directly off the ground without skip steps he'll be ahead of them both.

Cooper was good when he came on, but there wasn't a significant difference in either the game plan or the execution - so how Foley and Cooper perform in 2015 will decide the issue (as it always was going to do)

But realistically, it's not going to matter who is in the backline if the scrum doesn't improve.

EDIT: I thought To'omua was superb last night - best Wallaby on the field.
 
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