2016 Under-20 Rugby World Championships - Manchester UK

[kiap]

training full-time at the Western Force and Rebels is a massive step in the right direction and will go a long way to giving our U20's players the Skills and S&C requirements to perform at the JWC

If they get selected.

It's certainly a good move.

But let me ask this question: What remuneration will these 10 players in the 17-20yr age bracket be on?

 

[TOCC]

If they get selected.

It's certainly a good move.

But let me ask this question: What remuneration will these 10 players in the 17-20yr age bracket be on?

Like i mentioned its only rumoured at this stage but the funding for these academies will be part of an increase in grants from the ARU to Super Rugby teams based on the new broadcast negotiations. Currently grants sit at around $4.2million and with the new deal they are potentially going to increase to $6million with $500,000 allocated towards academies.

 

[kiap]

Well obviously it's a wait and see. But an extra $2.5m (5 x 0.5) does get some upgrades.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

While there will be other costs for staff, facilities etc but if each academy is allocated $0.5m (total $2.5m) then they may be competitive with the soon to be disestablished Car Makers trophy squads in Mungoland which IIRC has a salary cap of $0.25m.

It may be that @TOCC is saying that a total of $500,00 has been allocated for all 5 academies, and the rest of the difference between $4.2m and $6m (less $0.5 m for 5 x academies) being used at the Franchise discretion.

Any funding for academies is not to be sneezed at.

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't think an Oz Super Rugby U20's tournament will work: quite simply I don't think VIC, ACT and WA as individual states have the depth at U20's to field competitive teams against NSW and QLD. They could recruit from NSW and QLD but that's going to significantly increase costs. Yes it would be better then nothing but it's not ideal.

That been said, the rumoured academy set-up might change this if those states can recruit 4 or 5 quality U20's players to mix it with the locals.


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Unfortunately the ideal solution doesn't exist. At the moment elite level players have very few choices straight after school:
(a) Link up with a SS club (or equivalent in other states) and play grade rugby
(b) Accept a deal with an NRL club to play in the NYC (under 20s)
(c) Go overseas

At the moment there are a significant number of boys who have equal allegience to union and league and quite a few go to league because of an NYC contract and the professional structure offered by an NRL club as opposed to the amateur set-up at club rugby with varying degrees of financial assistance and varying degrees of infrastructure.

Most kids who are desirous of playing rugby at the super level would move for an opportunity. It would also empower the Force and Rebels to build up their local talent.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Do we really lose that many "dual coders" to the Dark Side?

It seems that most that we "lose" have already had fairly strong links with Fivekick and only played rugby because it was the sport they played at their School which had mandatory weekend sport.

How many elite level youngsters as 18-20 year olds head overseas?
Recent overseas exports like Vaingalo, Foketi and Natoli did so after they turned 20.

There is a lot more of option (a) going on. Just look at number of young men playing grade football in their first year out of school in Sydney, Brisbane, and Canberra. The "Which Clubs are the Class of 201x going to?" Thread keeps track of these to a degree, but there has been a recent marked increase in the numbers debuting in Grade Footy as 18/19 year olds.
With more clubs in Sydney copying the Uni model and investing in their Colts, offering mentoring, scholarships, job placements etc the retention rate is higher, The challenge is to spread that model to more than just 4 or 5 clubs.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^We lose enough when we start off with such a small talent pool. Have a look at the schools of some of the boys in the ISA thread who have been selected in the CIS league team. One at least that I know of has played rugby since he was 5 - took up league a few years ago. Has just signed a 3 year deal with Manly league. There have also been others over the past 3-4 years. True, some were always going to go to league, but a reasonable number could have gone either way.

What the aspirational kids (and/or their parents) are after is good coaching in a professional set-up. Money comes into it, but from people involved tell me is that it isn't the single most important thing. I'm a big fan of grade rugby, and properly resourced along the lines I have previously suggested (on this or maybe another thread) it would be able to fulfil the role. However, in it's current incarnation it relies too much on the right amateur coach/official being in the right spot at the right moment and having a generous benefactor to bankroll it.

Rugby can shrug it's shoulders and say we don't need them anyway, but IMO that is amateur era thinking.

 

[Quick Hands]

To save your trying to find it:

Harrison O'toole, St Augustine's College
John Hopoate, St Augustine's College
Elia Faatui, St Augustine's College
Aaron Pidcock, Snowy Mountains Grammar School
Jake Morrison, St Augustine's College
Hayden Yates, Bishop Tyrrell Anglican College
Dylan McLachlan, The Scots College
Troy Dargan, Knox Grammar School
George Francis, St Augustine's College
Daniel England, The Scots College
Kye Madden, Wollondilly Anglican College
Ray Stone, Wollondilly Anglican College
Matteson Johns, Sutherland Shire Christian School
Mitchell Kenny, Arndell Anglican College
Henry Fuimaono, Richard Johnson Anglican School
Isaac Rabuatoka, Macarthur Adventist College
Zac Cardassilaris, Waverley College
Andrew Graham, Oakhill College
Ryan Papenhuyzen, Oakhill College
Cameron Murray, Newington College​

5 x St Augustines
2 x Scots
2 x Oakhill
1 x Knox
1 x Newington
1 x Waverley

 

[Hugh Jarse]

In terms of relative strengths of the school associations in Loig, isn't CIS at the bottom of the pile behind CCC (perpetual winners), CHS who are usually very competitive, and daylight?

How many of the lads above are in SG Ball squads, compared to the numbers for the CCC and CHS squads?

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^^^You'll find them much improved this year - particularly in the 15s where they are a reasonable chance of winning it. At least 3 of those St Aug boys are in SG Ball.

 

[Seymour Butz]

^^^^^You'll find them much improved this year - particularly in the 15s where they are a reasonable chance of winning it. At least 3 of those St Aug boys are in SG Ball.

Agreed. I've heard much the same about their chances of going all the way this year.

 

[Seymour Butz]

If they get selected.

It's certainly a good move.

But let me ask this question: What remuneration will these 10 players in the 17-20yr age bracket be on?

Well, currently they pay to play in the existing 20s squads, so anything would be a step up from there.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^The levy for the National Schoolboys Tournament has gone from approx $350 last year to approx $750 this year.

Junior Gold Cup is about $660.

It is an expensive business to be a "talented" rugby player.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^The levy for the National Schoolboys Tournament has gone from approx $350 last year to approx $750 this year.

Junior Gold Cup is about $660.

It is an expensive business to be a "talented" rugby player.

But it won't deter the aspirational. It's why these young men would jump at the chance of being part of a professional set-up and move to Perth or Melbourne to do so. (Although perhaps not Perth with the current coach in place)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

For some, "graduating" to the "pay to play" Under 20's is welcomed because it is a lot less of a hit on the pocket than annual raid on the bank account colloquially referred to as school fees.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

^^The levy for the National Schoolboys Tournament has gone from approx $350 last year to approx $750 this year.

Junior Gold Cup is about $660.

It is an expensive business to be a "talented" rugby player.

I thought the Nationals was $450 this year.

 

[Hawko]

^^The levy for the National Schoolboys Tournament has gone from approx $350 last year to approx $750 this year.

Junior Gold Cup is about $660.

It is an expensive business to be a "talented" rugby player.

That's pretty appalling. When your family income is $100K+ that would be a bit of a tough ask. When your family income is $50K or less you are no chance of going. When these tournaments are only open to rich kids you wonder why all the poor kids play league? My grandson is in the league system at 14; if he had to pay $750 for one rep comp he wouldn't be in it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The recent announcements of signings by Reds have probably bolstered the chances of some folk making the 2016 team:
Lukhan LEALAIAULOTO-TUI (Won't be playing for the blue mob at Nationals )
Izack RODDA
Alex MAFI

Great news for those young blokes, and being full time in Club Red should benefit them immensely.

How are our Bush Lawyers going with resolution on the eligibility of Taniela TUPOU?
It would be great to have that resolved because we need props and the chances of Francis BROWN (NSW U20 2015, Aust Schoolboy A 2013) have probably taken a bit of a dive after he has failed to impress some observers when he has been playing in the Sydney Colts 3rds competition.

There are whispers of the NSW NRC franchises running Under 20, or development (2015 U19) teams that will play curtain raisers for the NSW NRC "local derbies". If true, this would dovetail nicely into the NSW U20 programme, which usually kicks off around November.

 

[kiap]

How are our Bush Lawyers going with resolution on the eligibility of Taniela TUPOU?

I don't know the answer but it would seem that the Australian Under 20 team is not covered by Regulation 8 in the WR (World Rugby) Handbook:

Does the eligibility criteria apply to all forms of Rugby?​

​

The eligibility criteria applies to the fifteen-a-side Game at senior and next senior National Representative level and in respect of a Union’s senior National Representative Sevens Team.​

​

Not relevant to the question, but he would obviously require 36 months residency for national senior selection.

 

[Seymour Butz]

The recent announcements of signings by Reds have probably bolstered the chances of some folk making the 2016 team:
Lukhan LEALAIAULOTO-TUI (Won't be playing for the blue mob at Nationals )
Izack RODDA
Alex MAFI

Great news for those young blokes, and being full time in Club Red should benefit them immensely.

Yep, great news for these boyz. Well deserved. Noticed an error in the scrapbook for Mafi listed on the Red's website. Says he was an Aust Schoolboy in 2014, but he was only selected in 2013.

Reds website story*

Schoolboys list for 2014

* The Reds website has been fixed. Must follows G&GR