France v Australia, Saturday 19 November

[KOB1987]

Now its emerged that Cheika sounded out James O'Connor about his availability to play for the Wallabies in the Spring Tour.. seriously, what the fuck is that about?

I know it's already been clarified but that's just an example of the absolute crap that gets thrown around by some halfwit (I'm not suggesting that's you, you just took his bait) to try and discredit Cheika.

He offered him a position in the team to play the French Barbarians and JOC (James O'Connor) was keen but Toulon said they wouldn't release players for this game. He then got injured last weekend anyway.

End of.

 

[TOCC]

Wallabies or Australia A, it's the same shit.. James O'Connor shouldn't be offered the opportunity ahead of other players from Australia, not just because he is an immature twat but it further erodes the exlusivity of selecting Australian based players. I objected to Koroibete been selected, but at least he is signed to an Australian team for 2016.

But I'm just a halfwit purely out to discredit Cheika, so what do I know...

 

[KOB1987]

I said you weren't the halfwit, your source was. Unless you were the one who manipulated the story of course.

I would suggest that it's not just JOC (James O'Connor), that Cheika spent a fair bit of time on the blower trying to get some NH based players to fill the last 3 or 4 spots in the Australia A team so that there was no overlap with the squad for the Irish game. No club would have an obligation to release their players though as it's not a test match. It's only JOC (James O'Connor) that's made the headlines though because it would invoke a response such as yours.

 

[TOCC]

Cheika was the one who asked JOC (James O'Connor), it wasn't me and it wasn't the journalist..

You're response is an example of the kind of attitude that gets thrown about by some halfwits, refuse to believe that Cheika should be criticised for any of his decisions.. I'm not saying you're a halfwit, you've just bought into the PR machine perpetuated by a select few journalists residing in Sydney..

I do recognise that is a rude statement, but I'm pressing a point..

 

[KOB1987]

I give up.

 

[Pfitzy]

Jeezus check out some of these idiots backing Cheika up:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...l/news-story/327ee9a6c202b2b7a75097757c534234

But Australia’s two World Cup-winning coaches — Bob Dwyer and Rod Macqueen — believe that Cheika’s decision to rest a number of his first-choice players is in fact a positive for the development of the team.

“It’s definitely a positive,” Dwyer told foxsports.com.au.
“I think the blokes that have been chosen have really earned themselves this opportunity.”
Macqueen added: “It gives more players an opportunity, it gives us a bit of depth to work on and, on paper, it’s still a pretty good side.
“There’s obviously a method in what we’re doing.”
<snip>
“Well you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t (give your starting players a rest),” Dwyer said.
“As a coaching staff and selection group you’ve got to give people that earn the opportunity a chance to prove that they’ve got it.
“I always used the analogy, if you passed your exams you’ve got to go up into the next class.
“And if you’re promoted too fast or too high a level erroneously and you show that you haven’t got it, you’ve had the chance.
“You can’t keep playing the same XV players every match and the same eight on the bench all the time.
”You need to increase the depth of your squad.
“Now if you take a risk by doing that then so be it.
“It’s a bit like saying we take a risk sometimes if we try and shift the ball too close to our line but high risk, high reward and that’s equally true of selections.
“You’ve got to get your selection criteria right, get your assessments right just as you’ve got to get your technique and execution right on the field and then you’ve got to give your best shot.”
“Sometimes you’ve got to have the courage of your convictions,” Macqueen said.
“The reality is that we need to be at our best for the next World Cup, it’s about peaking at the right time and we really are going through a new phase with a lot of new players, but it is good to see some of the younger players getting a look in with the talent that they’ve got.
“It certainly is a gutsy move from Cheik to do it, but in the longer term is probably one that’s a good idea.”

Has the world gone mad??

 

[Braveheart81]

The things that confuse me most about the arguments on the last 10 or so pages of the thread are:

1. Somehow a potential Grand Slam is only about Cheika. How isn't it also about all the players and fans? Every Aussie rugby fan knew this was a rare opportunity for a Grand Slam and considered it important.

2. Korobeite going on tour is still a major issue for many even though it now seems very clear he won't play a test (which no one wanted to see). The ARU have made an investment in him and want it to succeed. Being part of the tour is part of that. Tupou is on tour as a development player and isn't even eligible to play the non test match that other development players were brought for. This is an ARU investment too. Is that cheapening the jersey?

3. The need to rest players. Lots of arguments that number of games or minutes is a reasonable comparison for all players. Surely it isn't. The technology used know to predict injuries and burnout is pretty advanced and each player is different. Some players are more prone to injury than others. Some positions handle more minutes than others. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that some players are not suited to play 5 big test matches in 5 weeks despite playing substantially less games this year than someone else. Maybe their inability to play as many games as were available this year is the precise reason they can't play 5 tests in 5 weeks.

4. Both sides of the argument are being pretty fluid in moving players between being first and second choice to suit their arguments. The reality is that a lot of these 23 players have been in the first choice XV at some point in the last 12 months which counts for quite a bit.

5. Go the Wallabies!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[chasmac]

MC has obviously got big shoulders.
The risk he is taking is only just after the shit show that was the Rugby Championship. This hot on the heels of the 3 nil drubbing by the POMs.
Not the way I would skin the cat but I congratulate him on his boldness.
I do feel for the French as they are only getting the dirt trackers to play against.
If I was French and able to avoid my first impulse to raise the white flag then I would be aiming to bury this version of the Wallabies.
It would be demoralizing for the French to do otherwise.

 

[Quick Hands]

However, if we don't win the Slam I wonder if some of the Chek supporters might actually be a wee bit critical of the bloke, his assistants etc.

Well, generally speaking I could be considered a Cheika supporter but in this I think that he is wrong in making the changes.

I always want Australia to win and I don't think that making 11 changes this week so that we might (and it's highly debateable) win the next two weeks is sound thinking at all.

 

[Quick Hands]

Jeezus check out some of these idiots backing Cheika up:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...l/news-story/327ee9a6c202b2b7a75097757c534234


Has the world gone mad??

Now, I love Bob Dwyer and I think that his contribution to Australian rugby is up there with anyone's - but really?

Let's just turn the clock back to 2002, where Bob as Waratahs coach flying high in super rugby and guaranteed to finish second and get a home semi. Bob rests a similar number of players for the last round and the Waratahs were flogged 96-19 by the Crusaders. The next week in the home semi, the 2nd placed but demoralised Waratahs were beaten 51-10 by the Brumbies.

There is a disturbing parallel here.

 

[Quick Hands]

Unsurprising the flower mafia on this site can see absolutely zero wrong with Cheika's selections.

He could shoot somebody point blank in Pitt Street Mall and the same people would be digging up dirt on the victim trying to say it was justified.

As I agree with you, I think that I've lost any hope of being inducted into the flower mafia.

But I just like being able to express independant and contrary opinions on anything and everything.

 

[Quick Hands]

The things that confuse me most about the arguments on the last 10 or so pages of the thread are:

1. Somehow a potential Grand Slam is only about Cheika. How isn't it also about all the players and fans? Every Aussie rugby fan knew this was a rare opportunity for a Grand Slam and considered it important.

2. Korobeite going on tour is still a major issue for many even though it now seems very clear he won't play a test (which no one wanted to see). The ARU have made an investment in him and want it to succeed. Being part of the tour is part of that. Tupou is on tour as a development player and isn't even eligible to play the non test match that other development players were brought for. This is an ARU investment too. Is that cheapening the jersey?

3. The need to rest players. Lots of arguments that number of games or minutes is a reasonable comparison for all players. Surely it isn't. The technology used know to predict injuries and burnout is pretty advanced and each player is different. Some players are more prone to injury than others. Some positions handle more minutes than others. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that some players are not suited to play 5 big test matches in 5 weeks despite playing substantially less games this year than someone else. Maybe their inability to play as many games as were available this year is the precise reason they can't play 5 tests in 5 weeks.

4. Both sides of the argument are being pretty fluid in moving players between being first and second choice to suit their arguments. The reality is that a lot of these 23 players have been in the first choice XV at some point in the last 12 months which counts for quite a bit.

5. Go the Wallabies!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

But does every rugby fan even know what a grand slam is, let alone be consumed by it?

The "grand slam" is a relic of the amateur era when teams from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa would undertake a lengthy tour of the British Isles - much like a Lions tour. Lead-up and mid-week games against county teams, Cambridge, Oxford and combined university teams. Usually a visit to Buckingham Palace for afternoon tea with the Queen as well.

It's simly an anachronism to be talking about a "grand slam" which involves losing one test out of five - apparently because the opposition don't speak English. It so bizarre that it's almost surreal.

 

[Mr Doug]

Good luck to our boys.
There are queries by some here, on some of the selections, but whilst they are wearing the 'gold jersey', they are "our team", whatever their names are!

 

[Sully]

The discussion has mostly been fantastic except for a little name calling. Lets keep it civil and discuss/ argue / fight without putting anyone down.

 

[Gnostic]

Yeah the French do it a fair bit. The poms have done it too (remember 98? And our reaction?).



But each time they did it, Aussie fans ranted and raved about the attitude and how we'd never do that as wallabies and we wouldn't accept as wallaby fans.



And I don't accept it.

The Politician speak that came out with it gives me the shits. I'd like to just say, mate nobody believes that shit. You burn credibility with those who still hold some regard for you spouting that crap. Be truthful, no matter how uncomfortable. I despise the sophistry.

I should also have said the French do it because they are the French and no matter who is selected you never know which team is actually going to show up.

 

[upthereds#!]

for the baabaas game they once talked about getting overseas players to fill in as well (with the guys that have been brought in now, carter etc) guys like gill, mogg, ulugia, jones etc. So basically noone in the top 23 would have to play in the mid week game.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah the French do it a fair bit. The poms have done it too (remember 98? And our reaction?).

But each time they did it, Aussie fans ranted and raved about the attitude and how we'd never do that as wallabies and we wouldn't accept as wallaby fans.

And I don't accept it.

If you let the French do that without ramifications you get repeat behaviour - so it benefits cheika to test out whole bunch of players starting a test against a Country that has hurt the aru financially by sending a b team to tour oz. Commercially makes a lot of sense rugby reg and hence your taking the moral high ground is wrong imo as if aru don't play hard ball will continued to be screwed by Fru screwing us over sending b teams to oz as noting revenue generation from this skewed to host nation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pfitzy]

for the baabaas game they once talked about getting overseas players to fill in as well (with the guys that have been brought in now, carter etc) guys like gill, mogg, ulugia, jones etc. So basically noone in the top 23 would have to play in the mid week game.

Not sure anyone is going to be released by their club for that, though it would be handy.

 

[I like to watch]

If you let the French do that without ramifications you get repeat behaviour - so it benefits cheika to test out whole bunch of players starting a test against a Country that has hurt the aru financially by sending a b team to tour oz. Commercially makes a lot of sense rugby reg and hence your taking the moral high ground is wrong imo as if aru don't play hard ball will continued to be screwed by Fru screwing us over sending b teams to oz as noting revenue generation from this skewed to host nation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This has got nothing to do with FRU doing it to us first.
Clearly this is a Test Cheika is willing to risk,to enhance the chances of a slam.

He couldn't give two fucks about getting square for the corporate boys in the ARU.

If you agree with Cheika that the French should be ranked well below Ireland & England,and that this doesn't 'cheapen' the jersey. Fair enough.
I just don't agree with either.

 

[Pfitzy]

The other item we're missing here is the big picture:

FUCK England. Last game of the tour, and the one we want to really fire for. We can't beat them three times on their home patch this year, but we will be readying the fist...