Summer of 16/17

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^ thanks for that. So could've come in as early as he wanted but held back until he was the last batsman available. Poor bugger came out at five down & made a painful 13 as our quicks targeted his damaged hand before one kept a touch low & got him behind the ear, resulting in him going off on a stretcher:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-bangladesh-2016-17/content/story/1077865.html

Scans have thankfully come back OK but between that & the hand injury I think Bangladesh will be wanting a new captain for the second Test stating Friday in Christchurch.

 

[Braveheart81]

Such an unlucky injury for Pete Nevill last night in the Big Bash. This season has certainly been pretty horrendous for him.

At least the bat didn't get him in the eye. That could have ended his career.

 

[light]

Anyone know what Stoinis has done to gain a call-up?

Can't recall him doing much of late in the BBL, was he impressive in the Matador cup?

 

[light]

Also would like to see Handscomb get an extended run in the middle order of our ODI team.

He's not a big hitter but he could play the Bailey/Hussey-role quite well.

 

[Highlander35]

Handscomb's not the player for the ODI side. Good T20 player, particularly given he's a keeping option. One Day not so much. In the Short term Bailey or White should have been playing. Looking towards the next world cup someone like Patterson should have been there.

As for Stoinis, he's clearly been selected on last season's form, when he looked like being a genuine top four batsman who could bowl a few spells of medium-fast. On current season form he's just someone who's not good enough to be playing for either aspect.

Dan Christian would have been the ideal choice in the short term, but once again, they probably see Stoinis as being an option come the next world cup.

 

[No4918]

I'm appreciating Shane Watson a lot more since his departure.

Big fan of Christian. If he was 10 years younger he'd be a certainty.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Watto was a great ODI/T20 player, his record was excellent, just nowhere near as good in test matches.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Congratulations to Smith and the Aussies on their win tonight. Great effort by both Smith and Handscombe with the bat and by Hazelwood with the ball.

Wade's performance behind the stumps must cause questions to be asked about his inclusion in the touring side to India. He doesn't look at all comfortable, and missed a very easy stumping off a spinner. If there is going to be such emphasis put on spin bowling by the Aussies in India, they would probably profit from having a more consistent keeper at the stumps.

I see that both Dizzy Gillespie and Adam Gilchrist are attributing the success of the touring side in 2004 to the pace bowlers rather than the spinners, and that was with Shane Warne in the side. There's not a Warne among the plethora of spinners going on this tour. I think this will prove to be a fatal flaw in the selections when all is said and done.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think you're right BR. You have to play to your strengths and spin bowling is not ours at the moment. I've been thinking about how we can win in India and apart from drawing a blank, I had a look at the stats from the most recent tour by the Poms. They flat out failed to take 20 wickets consistently. It's trite I know but that's the essence of it. They made some decent scores but if India are making 200-300 more then you're never winning a test match. England had a number of bits and pieces players (something they have more recently got away from and been more successful as a result), but when you've got Moeen Ali batting at four, as good a player as he is lower in the order, and bowling 40-50 overs in an innings I think you're in a bit of trouble. Not that I think we're any better off.

I'd go in with the three quicks and one of SOK or Lyon for the first test, with Smith to have a roll himself to give the others a bit of a rest. It's going to require a completely style of cricket from what the boys play here: patience and checking the ego at the door. That means a bit of old fashioned graft with the bat and line and length with the ball. The wickets will either be roads or raging turners from ball one, so I think we'll struggle. I'm a bit worried for the quicks to be honest. I could see one of them breaking down quite easily.

 

[No4918]

Listening to Lehman he seems to be expecting the boys to make 600 each time they walk to the crease. Few worrying signs ahead of the tour.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I really think we'll miss someone like Cartwright at No 6. He is undoubtedly in better form than Mitch Marsh with the bat and his bowling would be more valuable in giving the quicks a rest I believe than Maxwell's. I still can't reconcile taking two left hand orthodox spinners on tour.

The claim by the selectors, echoed by Boof, that another quick can be brought into the squad if required, while true, is just so much self justification covering up for their mistake in loading the side with a second rate spin attack. Take another pace bowler and a batting all rounder like Cartwright in place of two of the spinners, and we'd have a side less likely to need to be bolstered mid-tour.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't really see the point of Cartwright. His bowling is not really up to it to play as an all rounder. If he's your number 6 you may as well pick a genuine batsman. You're never going to bowl him for 15 overs in a day.

I'm certainly not advocating that we pick Mitchell Marsh instead. I wouldn't have included him in the touring party.

I do see Maxwell as an option at 6 in India if we go down the route of only picking one specialist spinner. That wouldn't be my first preference though.

My team for the first test would be:

Warner
Renshaw
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
S Marsh
Wade
Starc
O'Keefe
Hazlewood
Lyon

With two specialist spinners I think you can get away without the all-rounder and assume that Smith and Warner can get through a couple of overs if needed.

I think Fawad Ahmed should have been included in the touring party.

 

[Brumby Runner]

BH, I think where that side will fall down is in its over reliance on the spinning duo of Lyon and O'Keefe. Neither are really game breakers and I suspect will be easy pickings for the Indian batsmen, who are really adept at playing much better spin than those two will provide. Two pace bowlers only is a recipe for overwork. We will probably have to rely on them for the bulk of the bowling as the spinners get taken for a motza of runs. That's where Cartwright would be handy, not to tear through the batting lineup, but hopefully to provide tighter bowling from one end while the pace men get a rest. I just cannot see that happening with our spinners.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Cartwright bowling 120km/h offers anything. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play another test unless his batting demands selection. My take on the Sydney test is they had a look at his bowling and decided it wasn't up to scratch.

SOK tends to be very economical. Lyon is a bit more aggressive (and generally goes for more runs).

I expect we will pick 2 spinners in the first test and if we don't, Maxwell will be picked at 6.

When it comes down to it I think they'll decide that a second specialist spinner (SOK) gives us a better chance of winning than picking Jackson Bird.

That's my take. We'll see what happens.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I suspect you might be right on the money about the first test BH, but I fear that it will be our pace bowlers who take the most wickets and will possibly be bowled into the ground in the hot, humid conditions in India. I am not at all confident that our spinners will trouble the Indian batsmen at least to the extent we might win a test on the back of their efforts. The more spin we bowl, the more we are likely to be playing directly to the Indian strengths.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Heard an interesting one today. The reason Maxwell isn't getting a bowl in the Odis is they want him ready for the test matches

His action has been rebuilt, he's getting a heavy workload in the nets.

Captain coach and selectors are keen for him to be the 5th bowler as he's seen as the best player of spin amongst the potential candidates for 6 in the order.

 

[Highlander35]

That'd make a lot of sense Strewth.

Why so many of us prefer Lyon I think is that he's become willing to give away the occasional boundaries in search of a wicket, something which SOK doesn't seem to do as well, and Maxwell turns that up to 11.

You'd have to wonder if SOK, Agar or Swepson were being looked at as the sole spinner as well, you probably wouldn't want two off spinners as your only options.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If true, then that only adds to the mystery of why so many (mediocre) spinners were taken on the tour. I agree H35, if Maxwell is the unlikely main orthodox spinner, then it would make sense to play one who turns the ball away from the RH batsmen, lets say SOK for arguments sake. Then we have Lyon, Agar and Swepson who are surplus to requirements.

I think the selectors will have a large serve of egg on their collective faces before this tour is done and dusted.

 

[Strewthcobber]

4 tests in 5 weeks in India in March means that you're going to lose a few players attritionally. I suspect that they think we will be bowling a lot of overs (England had to send down nearly 1000 in their 5 tests)

And they've taken a 16 man squad so you have room for

• one development player (Swepson),
• one back up batsman (Marsh/Khawaja),
• one back up paceman (Bird)
• one quick who can open the bowling on an absolute dustbowl to "strengthen" the batting order (that's fairly theoretical), or be the pace allrounder (M Marsh)
• one spin allrounder (Maxwell)
• one back up spinner (Agar)

3 of the 4 test grounds have never hosted a test & barely even a ODI so nobody really knows what the pitches will do.

Think they'll go in with 2 quicks, 2 spinners and Maxwell and see how they go.

 

[No4918]

Swepson shows a lot of promise. Think he could be good odds to debut early in the series. Swepson and Lyon or SOK seems a more balanced pair than the latter two together.