Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Omar Comin']

If it's going to go the way of an NRC with Asian teams then I really think it'd be better to have our super rugby teams playing in it as the base of the competition (obviously minus Wallabies players). The super rugby provinces are established brands with established fan bases, while the NRC teams have yet to cut through - and I don't think the confusion of having multiple brands for effectively the same club (as is the case with the Spirit, Rising and Vikings) is necessary. That said it'd be useful to have a 2nd Sydney team, and perhaps it could have a strong link to Tonga and Samoa.

So the comp might be, for example:

Waratahs
Reds
Brumbies
Rebels
Force
Western Sydney
Fiji Drua
Hong Kong
Asia-Pacific Dragons (Singapore)
Shanghai

I think that'd be a more popular and engaging comp than the current NRC plus 2 or 3 Asian sides.

As others have noted the problem for the Force is that they'd not have a full season of rugby. But maybe they could play other fixtures while Super Rugby is on in order to keep the core of a full time professional team. For example, they could invite teams from around the world to Perth for a 3 match series, or go on their own tours, or play one off matches against Super Rugby sides when they have byes. Not a perfect solution, but I think the Force just need to do what they can to remain a full time team over the next 3 seasons.

 

[ForceFan]

Pretty much how it worked in Super Rugby. Year after year some of the toughest schedules.

You get the feeling BLR that even after 12 years the East Coast doesn't realize that from Perth it's still 4 hrs to Melb or Sydney, 5 hrs to Brisbane or Canberra, 6-8 hrs to Auckland, 9 hrs to Wellington or Christchurch, 10 hrs to Dunedin, 11 hrs to Johannesburg.
It's only 5.5 hrs to Singapore, 8 hrs to Hong Kong, 11 hrs to Suva, 11.5 hrs to Shanghai - as possible examples - and there will only be 5 trips in a season (+ Finals)
Indo - Pacific travel is unlikely to be worse than with Super Rugby and exclude trips to Argentina (+30hrs), Japan (+13hrs), CapeTown (14hrs), Port Elizabeth (14 hrs), Bloemfontein (13 hrs) etc.

I'm excited to find out the final 5 International Teams as the word is that Twiggy's having to fight them away.

 

[ForceFan]

Not a perfect solution, but I think the Force just need to do what they can to remain a full time team over the next 3 seasons.

Exactly what will happen and it may pave the future direction beyond 2020.
Perth just wants to keep a professional team so that there is a genuine and real chance of keeping developing players in Perth. Few rugby supporters in the West (including Twiggy) want to see our top team at NRC standard.

If the Indo-Pacific Comp is only a 10-12 week season then Perth players can be available to play Super Rugby (for other Aus teams) or in the Japan Top League or wider training group/development players in the NRC.

Who knows what could unfold after the Japan RWC and the collapse of the SANZAAR model?

My tip is that beyond 2020 we'll see an expanded Indo-Pacific Competition which includes teams from Australia, New Zealand and all those teams from Twiggy's initiative. Possible East and West Conference and/or 2 tiers to provide for the developing nations (perhaps even Sth Australia and/or West Sydney)

Sth Africa by then should be firmly planted in Europe.
Argentina is a problem (due to travel time & costs) but perhaps USA & Canada will have developed further by then.

 

[Omar Comin']

If the Indo-Pacific Comp is only a 10-12 week season then Perth players can be available to play Super Rugby (for other Aus teams) or in the Japan Top League or wider training group/development players in the NRC.

Okay but without other fixtures for the Force you give up having professional players actually based in Perth year round, which has some benefits.

If they could scrape together at least 7 or 8 matches in Perth (outside of the Indo-Pacific league) then you could still keep the base of a team in WA year round. Clearly some of the top players would be picked up by the 4 Super Rugby teams, but it'd be better to have half a dozen or 10 out of towners flying in to play for the Force in the Indo-Pacific league than the majority of the squad having to do so.

 

[fatprop]

Quite amazing, we move from a rebel world series rugby show that is going to turn Australian rugby on it's head to an upgrade of the NRC.

A smart move, but a tad different from f*ck you all to working for/with the "man".

 

[fatprop]

And I think it is a smart move, it allows the brand to stay, keeps WA rugby around and positions the Force for when expansion happens again

 

[Tomikin]

Wasn't the point of getting rid of a team to strengthen the other teams.. If the players just stay in Perth don't we lose that benifit..

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[BLR]

Wasn't the point of getting rid of a team to strengthen the other teams.. If the players just stay in Perth don't we lose that benifit..

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As you should, get your own damn players.

 

[Slim 293]

Wasn't the point of getting rid of a team to strengthen the other teams.. If the players just stay in Perth don't we lose that benifit..

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The Force will still be losing all their top players to other franchises or overseas.......... In the interim they will be left with whatever fringe players are available.

 

[I like to watch]

Wasn't the point of getting rid of a team to strengthen the other teams.. If the players just stay in Perth don't we lose that benifit..

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The only point was they thought it would save them money.
Performance,growth of the game etc etc weren't considerations.
Just money.

 

[Aurelius]

Yeah, I don't see the axing of the Force doing much to improve Australia's performance generally.

The Reds will still underperform, because they'll continue to be led by coaching staff whose sole qualification is being "good Queensland rugby men."

The Waratahs will still underperform, because they'll still be a bunch of egoists who'll turn down the easy three every time and expect to win by dint of their inate Waratah awesomeness.

The Brumbies will still fight hard and will almost certainly win the conference again next season, but crash out at the quarter-final stage because they'll lack the ability to get it done against the Kiwi sides.

The Rebels will likely get most of our top players, and perhaps our coaches too, so should improve significantly to the extent that they'll be, well, about as good as the Force were this season. It's worth noting that once again, the Rebels are pinning their hopes on buying their way to success, just as they did when they got players like O'Connor and Beale.

In other words, our teams have cultural problems. The fact that so many of the Force's stars have held out for so long throughout this process I think is testament to the fantastic culture built at the club over a number of years, but now that's lost it doesn't look like being replicated anywhere else (except possibly the Brumbies), so ultimately nothing will change.

 

[Jimmyjam]

As you should, get your own damn players.

Umm, they actually are our players. We are just getting them back. Just a quick reality check..... approx 70% of all Super rugby contracted Aust players were developed in either NSW or Qld. So on that basis you'd be cool if.... NSW took back: Matwijow, McCalman, Hodgson, Philip, Cowan, Arnold, Tatafu, Newsome,Meakes, and Lance. Qld took back: Cottrell, Daley, Tessman, Naiairani (Fiji), Vui, Morahan, Prior ACT took back: Coleman, SA took back: Stander, Van Wyk, Verity Amm, Grant and Brache. Throw in Masirewa and Havili from Fiji and Tonga and you aren't left with too much at all. Not trying to be a smartarse or disrespectful, but something lost in the debate is the FACT that Aust doesn't have enough talent to support 5 teams and NSW and Qld are 'CURRENTLY' developing 70% of the talent that plays for the other 3 franchises.

 

[fairplay]

You guys realize Twiggy is only a "Little" Billionaire right?
I mean billionaires now are like what millionaires were 30 years ago...and he's no big one

 

[Boof1050]

You guys realize Twiggy is only a "Little" Billionaire right?
I mean billionaires now are like what millionaires were 30 years ago.and he's no big one

And your point is??? How much was the last billionaire that dipped into rugby in Australia worth??

 

[Jimmyjam]

Yeah, I don't see the axing of the Force doing much to improve Australia's performance generally.

The Reds will still underperform, because they'll continue to be led by coaching staff whose sole qualification is being "good Queensland rugby men."

The Waratahs will still underperform, because they'll still be a bunch of egoists who'll turn down the easy three every time and expect to win by dint of their inate Waratah awesomeness.

The Brumbies will still fight hard and will almost certainly win the conference again next season, but crash out at the quarter-final stage because they'll lack the ability to get it done against the Kiwi sides.

The Rebels will likely get most of our top players, and perhaps our coaches too, so should improve significantly to the extent that they'll be, well, about as good as the Force were this season. It's worth noting that once again, the Rebels are pinning their hopes on buying their way to success, just as they did when they got players like O'Connor and Beale.

In other words, our teams have cultural problems. The fact that so many of the Force's stars have held out for so long throughout this process I think is testament to the fantastic culture built at the club over a number of years, but now that's lost it doesn't look like being replicated anywhere else (except possibly the Brumbies), so ultimately nothing will change.

The problem isn't particularly cultural when we've Qld won 6yrs ago and NSW won 3yrs ago. Problem is dilution of talent. As much as we hate to admit it we don't have the quality to fill 5 competitive teams . When one team is particularly strong, we have 2 teams that are basket cases. When the talent is more evenly distributed we have 5 ordinary teams... ie 2017. To the objective observer it's pretty obvious what the problem is.

 

[Slim 293]

To the objective observer it's pretty obvious what the problem is.

Coaching? Skills?

 

[Jimmyjam]

Coaching? Skills?

Don't disagree....

 

[Brainstrust]

Whatever competition structure is finally put in place, it and full time ( professional) rugby in Australia needs to be able to pay players a comparative salary to what they would get over seas. Reducing opportunities for players to pay professionally doesn't automatically translate into better depth in Australia if players will still opt to go elsewhere for better money. So creating competition for contracts is good, but the contract has to be attractive enough to keep players here.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If it's going to go the way of an NRC with Asian teams then I really think it'd be better to have our super rugby teams playing in it as the base of the competition (obviously minus Wallabies players). The super rugby provinces are established brands with established fan bases, while the NRC teams have yet to cut through - and I don't think the confusion of having multiple brands for effectively the same club (as is the case with the Spirit, Rising and Vikings) is necessary. That said it'd be useful to have a 2nd Sydney team, and perhaps it could have a strong link to Tonga and Samoa.

So the comp might be, for example:

Waratahs
Reds
Brumbies
Rebels
Force
Western Sydney
Fiji Drua
Hong Kong
Asia-Pacific Dragons (Singapore)
Shanghai

I think that'd be a more popular and engaging comp than the current NRC plus 2 or 3 Asian sides.

As others have noted the problem for the Force is that they'd not have a full season of rugby. But maybe they could play other fixtures while Super Rugby is on in order to keep the core of a full time professional team. For example, they could invite teams from around the world to Perth for a 3 match series, or go on their own tours, or play one off matches against Super Rugby sides when they have byes. Not a perfect solution, but I think the Force just need to do what they can to remain a full time team over the next 3 seasons.

It's Greater Sydney now. Again.

I think a general rebrand may be needed for a few teams to more the city in which they are based in. Particularly if they are looking to engage audience to our north. I seriously doubt many Asian viewers would know who NSW or QLD but I'd bet they'd recognise Sydney and Brisbane.

That would also open up the Greater Sydney side of the equation. Or even a regional based squad in either Wollongong or Newcastle.

Then there's the old chestnut of Adelaide. An empty stadium during the period in which it's slated to be run to play in which I'm sure the State Govt. would be happy to assist in in order to increase its utilisation and a Rugby community (albeit small) to build off.

A team in every major capital.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The problem isn't particularly cultural when we've Qld won 6yrs ago and NSW won 3yrs ago. Problem is dilution of talent. As much as we hate to admit it we don't have the quality to fill 5 competitive teams . When one team is particularly strong, we have 2 teams that are basket cases. When the talent is more evenly distributed we have 5 ordinary teams. ie 2017. To the objective observer it's pretty obvious what the problem is.

Didn't we have 5 teams when both the Reds and the Tahs won their respective title?