Waratahs 2018

[2bluesfan]

The most pleasing thing to see is that across the park I think just about every single player performed better than they did last year. Some quite significantly.

That's the key to happiness. When it's time for their season review, they'll reflect on who and what promoted this improvement.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Lousi - well we had him but he was pretty ordinary at the Tahs and yet goes back to NZ and becomes a rock star.

I'm a half-hearted Canes fan after living there for a few years. I can't wait for him and Toby Smith to be gone.

 

[MACCA]

Fitzpatrick.
Holloway to 8 or bench 6/lock
Recruit a LH lock to partner Simmons, someone like Skelton or a Huricanes version of Lousi who can have a material effect at the ruck, maul and gain line. At the moment no Tight five forward except Kepu has any effect with Latu occasionally stepping in there.
The backrow needs more balance, all workrate and no effect. Find me a Daniel Manu or Wille O to partner Hanigan and Hooper with Miller on the bench.

Holloway has the speed and athleticism however can be lazy. what happened to Nick Palmer as a Lock? Clearly one of Cron's men - is he injured?

 

[Braveheart81]

what happened to Nick Palmer as a Lock? Clearly one of Cron's men - is he injured?

I think he has been injured for a long time. I think a game or two after he stopped appearing for the Tahs he got injured in Shute Shield.

 

[Lindommer]

A shame. When Nick was on the paddock the pigs looked brute ugly while the scrum stopped going backwards.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I know that's a well-worn narrative (Mike AAA as well) but has Lousi been any good this year? Or Ta'avao?

I've seen a bit of both and they have been pretty average every time I've seen them. Maybe I've missed their standout games but from my view I don't think the Tahs have missed them at all.
.

I've seen quite a bit of Ta'avao this year and his form has been far superior to what it was with the Tahs. I think the Tahs would have benefited from him had he been in his present form.

I agree that Lousi hasn't been anywhere near a rock star but his early form this year was also a step up from his performances with the Tahs.

 

[Number 7]

Anyone know where Paddy Ryan is off to next year? No mention on other news services.

 

[Gnostic]

Skelton is reviled a lot but in a lightweight workrate pack, with a forwards coach to actually teach some technical aspects and technique he (or somebody like him) would fill some significant holes in the Tahs skill set. Nobody in the professional era at the Tahs has been as effective as Skelton at maul defence, it isn't just sheer mass, it is the physical characteristic of his immense reach causing issues for opposition mauls and having to clear or getting bound up. We simply must stop looking for the next "big" thing and build a TEAM, and that means balancing the skill sets to make a more complete side.

 

[Gnostic]

I know that's a well-worn narrative (Mike AAA as well) but has Lousi been any good this year? Or Ta'avao?



I've seen a bit of both and they have been pretty average every time I've seen them. Maybe I've missed their standout games but from my view I don't think the Tahs have missed them at all.

.

Both have been starting players, where at the Tahs both were sometimes starters usually benchies as a first up touchstone on their improvement, secondly in starting they have both fulfilled their roles, with Lousi winning more lineouts and getting mentioned more in tight play than he did in his entire time at the Tahs, nothing flashy but that isn't what is required of a NZ tight forward. As for Ta'avoa, he was actually part of a scrum which dominated at times, in contrast to his time in Australia when he couldn't dominate a Shute Shield scrum. Technically he was far better. ​

This year I would have Lousi was a better option on form to Staniforth or Holloway and certainly would have offered balance to the pack, and I certainly wouldn't trade Kepu for Ta'avoa but he certainly is far ahead of Ryan or J-H

 

[Froggy]

Ta-avao has mostly been used off the bench this year, and really hasn't been that exceptional. He is a (marginally) better scrummager than Ryan, and has less impact around the paddock. Lousi is certainly a better player than he was with the Tahs, although certainly not a stand-out.
This idea that a player who moves on from the Tahs then becomes a super-star takes on the form of an urban myth!

 

[Gnostic]

The statistics sort of back up the statement that players improve greatly away from not just the Tahs, but AUstralian Rugby. Is it a cultural thing or just getting young people away from home and actually into the world like us older people did in their teens and actually having to look after themselves and perform. I don't know, but that is an interesting argument I have been seeing more and more in many fields of endeavour.

In any case the qualifier has never been "become a superstar" that has only happened once and that was Nadolo, but instead I look for improvement in core skill execution for the position being played and both players mentioned have achieved that.

I am hoping that Australian Rugby is improving in this regard, but will reserve judgment on that. Certainly after the Irish tests nothing improved the serious questions over the skill of the Australian Coaching set up that were raised in 2016 and reinforced last year.

 

[Up the Guts]

^^^^
Scrums and catch pass skills have improved in Aus. Still waiting for improvements in kicking.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Pete Samu on the benefit of playing overseas:

"When I was playing [in Australia] I didn't really have much knowledge of the game and being over in New Zealand has really helped me out with that,"

"It's helped me understand the game more and helped me understand how I can be a lot more effective around the park - things like that."

"[In Australia] my lineout, scrum and defence wasn't really one of my main focuses,"

"I just got better at it over there and I definitely think being over there has really helped my game.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/06/05/samu-speaks-for-first-time-wallabies-camp-pre-ireland

 

[Braveheart81]

People are kidding themselves if they don't think Lousi would have been significantly better in year 4 of rugby than in an injury filled year 1 and 2 regardless of where he played.

He still is far from a standout.

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[Derpus]

People are kidding themselves if they don't think Lousi would have been significantly better in year 4 of rugby than in an injury filled year 1 and 2 regardless of where he played.

He still is far from a standout.

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Ya he's kinda poop. He's a poor mans Skelton. He's definitely not in the class as Pete Samu who was truly a fringe player and has skyrocketed to Wallaby in the Crusaders camp.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ya he's kinda poop. He's a poor mans Skelton. He's definitely not in the class as Pete Samu who was truly a fringe player and has skyrocketed to Wallaby in the Crusaders camp.

No doubt the Crusaders are better at developing players than any other team but it was also two seasons after leaving Australia that he started playing Super Rugby.

People seem to have this narrative that every player is an overnight success after leaving Australia but ignore the several seasons in between.

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[Derpus]

No doubt the Crusaders are better at developing players than any other team but it was also two seasons after leaving Australia that he started playing Super Rugby.

People seem to have this narrative that every player is an overnight success after leaving Australia but ignore the several seasons in between.

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Yeah i guess, i don't think Samu would have achieved what he did if he didn't leave though and i think there is some recognition of what's possible by going to NZ among young Aussie players intent on playing Union.

 

[Froggy]

The statistics also indicate that players can improve over a number of years, regardless of where they're playing. A case in point is Tom Robertson, who's had a pretty good year, despite a pretty ordinary 2017. If he'd gone to NZ after 2017, then shown the form he has this year, the response would be 'look how the New Zealanders turned Robertson around after failing at the Tahs'.

I have been around rugby in various forms since the 1960's, and am well aware of Aus Rugby's many flaws (including the current administration), but do get a bit weary of so-called supporters of the game who can only ever post about all the perceived ills of the game here, and how Aus rugby is rapidly going to hell in a hand-basket.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah i guess, i don't think Samu would have achieved what he did if he didn't leave though and i think there is some recognition of what's possible by going to NZ among young Aussie players intent on playing Union.

I think the quality of the Mitre 10 Cup is a big thing and exactly why we need the NRC and for it to keep improving in quality.

It's not like Samu was an unidentified talent when he left. He was an up and coming young player who missed out on a Tahs contract in 2014 despite playing some trial games etc.

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[Derpus]

The statistics also indicate that players can improve over a number of years, regardless of where they're playing. A case in point is Tom Robertson, who's had a pretty good year, despite a pretty ordinary 2017. If he'd gone to NZ after 2017, then shown the form he has this year, the response would be 'look how the New Zealanders turned Robertson around after failing at the Tahs'.

I have been around rugby in various forms since the 1960's, and am well aware of Aus Rugby's many flaws (including the current administration), but do get a bit weary of so-called supporters of the game who can only ever post about all the perceived ills of the game here, and how Aus rugby is rapidly going to hell in a hand-basket.

Yeah i guess there is no real way to tell whether players that have left would have been just as good here. Pure conjecture.

But anyways, Lousi is not a loss. Not by a long shot. Nor is Taavao (sp?) or even Toby Smith to be honest.