Wallabies 2018 Spring Tour

[barbarian]

Well you can't deny Hoopers form nor selection.

Well that's where you are mistaken, dear Reg.......
.

 

[Joe Blow]

Hanigan, Hooper and Pocock has not been very successful so far.

Hope they try a new combo or at least introduce someone new into the backrow. Samu is an adequate replacement for Hooper or Pocock but there is no point in having him in a 23 when the other two are fit.
Cottrell and Dempsey can both play 6 and 8 and have decent lineout skills. It may be too soon for Valentini.
The Pooper has its moments but I would guess that every top ten test side now have a pretty good idea of how to combat it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Well you can't deny Hoopers form nor selection. Holloway played lock and it was Hanigan's best year. Meanwhile Dempsey was crook the whole season.

Reg, Hooper was injured for a fair swag of games and Miller replaced him. During that time, he Miller was one of their better performers. Not saying at all that Hooper shouldn't be in the Wallabies.

In my opinion, Hanigan's best year was just a myth. He was no more effective than in previous years, and certainly had far less impact per game than the likes of Cottrell, Higgers and even Brynard Stander.

Dempsey was out for the whole of the Super Rugby season but his form in the NRC since returning from a severe injury has been less than outstanding. I can accept his selection based on previous test form, but atm he is just a shadow of that player.

Jed Holloway, one of my favourite players over the past couple of years (prior to injury) (check my many posts lauding him as a future Wallaby if you need to), has done nothing in back row play to warrant selection this year in the Wallabies. His form at lock does warrant consideration there, but he is behind a swag of players who have performed better over recent times than Jed. Philip must feel ignored and that is unwarranted on his form. Can see him heading overseas if that treatment continues. Shades of Jones, LFG, McMahon, even Kimlin, Nic White and a few others over the years; not all due to Cheika but in similar circumstances when overlooked for inferior players.

I simply cannot accept that the Tahs with arguably the lightest and most ineffective back row in the Super Rugby competition has such a mortgage on those spots in the Wallabies.

 

[KOB1987]

It's hard to say how Holloway will go as a 6/8 based on his performances as a lock this season. He was certainly below par last season as a backrower after returning from injury but had a great season this year in the row. Was the improvement in form because he changed position or because he was fully recovered from the injury? I don't think we have ever seen him play 6 have we, he was always an 8 in the back row for the Tahs? At his best he fits the mould of the 'line bending, ball running 6/8' that to this point has been a mythical creature in terms of Wallabies contention in recent years.

It's unlikely he will be in the 23 for the Bledisloe game and whether he goes on the tour beyond that probably depends on whether Timu has been dropped or just left at home to fulfil his NRC finals obligations. Regardless of any of that I have zero problem with him getting some experience within the squad.

With regards to Matt Philip, it's not a back rower you need to target for him being overlooked, he's a lock.

 

[Braveheart81]

I simply cannot accept that the Tahs with arguably the lightest and most ineffective back row in the Super Rugby competition has such a mortgage on those spots in the Wallabies.

Two of the three players who started the most games in the backrow for the Waratahs this year aren't in the Wallabies though.

You are effectively using that backrow to suggest that Dempsey shouldn't come back or Hanigan who played lock most of the year shouldn't be picked.

You are using Miller's excellent season to suggest that because he isn't in the Wallabies but performed better than other Waratahs players who are (some of which didn't play), those players shouldn't be picked.

Your logic is all over the place.

If you go through the Super Rugby stats for this year the Waratahs backrowers collectively outperformed the other Australian backrows in plenty of metrics such as run metres, line breaks, tackles made, pilfers etc. My take would be that the Waratahs light backrow was very effective across the whole season. There were a couple of games where the Waratahs forwards got monstered but plenty where they didn't and their mobility proved a huge advantage.

It should be noted that the two Australian backrowers with the most run metres aren't eligible (Mafi and Naisarani).

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's hard to say how Holloway will go as a 6/8 based on his performances as a lock this season. He was certainly below par last season as a backrower after returning from injury but had a great season this year in the row. Was the improvement in form because he changed position or because he was fully recovered from the injury? I don't think we have ever seen him play 6 have we, he was always an 8 in the back row for the Tahs? At his best he fits the mould of the 'line bending, ball running 6/8' that to this point has been a mythical creature in terms of Wallabies contention in recent years.

It's unlikely he will be in the 23 for the Bledisloe game and whether he goes on the tour beyond that probably depends on whether Timu has been dropped or just left at home to fulfil his NRC finals obligations. Regardless of any of that I have zero problem with him getting some experience within the squad.

With regards to Matt Philip, it's not a back rower you need to target for him being overlooked, he's a lock.

KOB, before his injury Holloway played 8 (mainly) and some 6 for Southern Districts. IMO he was the outstanding backrower in the SS for a year or two. I think he might even have had time at 6 with the Tahs, but not sure about that.

Since his injury, he has played 8 without distinction and in the second row where he became the No 1 lock for the Tahs imo. He nevertheless, was comprehensively outplayed (whilst still putting in a good shift) by Philip in the game against the Rebels in Melbourne. Philip has also played some time in the 6 jersey. They are like for like where they have both played better at lock this year than otherwise. Right now, and based on the whole of the Super Rugby season, I rate Philip the better player of the two.

My gripe is that Holloway has no recent form in the backrow and while he's been good to very good in the second row, if he is to be considered for Wallaby selection he should be judged against those who are playing in the same spot. That is, against locks if he's considered as a lock, or against backrowers if he is considered a 6/8. In the former case, Philip would be more worthy, and in the latter any of Higgers, Time, Samu or Stander have had better seasons than Jed.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Two of the three players who started the most games in the backrow for the Waratahs this year aren't in the Wallabies though.

You are effectively using that backrow to suggest that Dempsey shouldn't come back or Hanigan who played lock most of the year shouldn't be picked.

You are using Miller's excellent season to suggest that because he isn't in the Wallabies but performed better than other Waratahs players who are (some of which didn't play), those players shouldn't be picked.

Your logic is all over the place.

If you go through the Super Rugby stats for this year the Waratahs backrowers collectively outperformed the other Australian backrows in plenty of metrics such as run metres, line breaks, tackles made, pilfers etc. My take would be that the Waratahs light backrow was very effective across the whole season. There were a couple of games where the Waratahs forwards got monstered but plenty where they didn't and their mobility proved a huge advantage.

It should be noted that the two Australian backrowers with the most run metres aren't eligible (Mafi and Naisarani).

C'mon BH. By your logic, the situation should surely be that both Miller and Wells, as the better performing back rowers (ignore Hooper) in the Tahs who contributed to the outstanding back row statistics should also be in the Wallabies, as they were better than some who are there or others who didn't even play a game or much. I might also remind you that there were many Tahs fans through the year calling for Wells' selection for the Wallabies.

I really have had a gutful of the justifications put forward defending the selection of Tahs players over better performing players from other teams. And please note before embarking on an allegation of bias on my behalf, that I have nominated players from every other Aussie team, including the Western Force, as being among those hard done by.

 

[Joe Blow]

Cheika does like to have a lock at 6 to counter the Pooper.
But Holloway is a 6/8 that can play lock. Tui and Phillip are the opposite.
Love to see Holloway get a run at 8.

 

[Braveheart81]

C'mon BH. By your logic, the situation should surely be that both Miller and Wells, as the better performing back rowers (ignore Hooper) in the Tahs who contributed to the outstanding back row statistics should also be in the Wallabies, as they were better than some who are there or others who didn't even play a game or much. I might also remind you that there were many Tahs fans through the year calling for Wells' selection for the Wallabies.

I really have had a gutful of the justifications put forward defending the selection of Tahs players over better performing players from other teams. And please note before embarking on an allegation of bias on my behalf, that I have nominated players from every other Aussie team, including the Western Force, as being among those hard done by.

This squad is for the 3rd Bledisloe. Holloway won't play and three of the four players you've listed (Timu, Stander and Samu) are playing in the NRC semis (and final if they make it) rather than holding tackling bags for a week. The fourth player (Higgers) isn't even playing. I would be very surprised if Samu and Timu don't make the EOYT.

I would have picked Matt Philip more as well. I'm not sure how relevant one outstanding game is because it was against the Wallabies. A couple of weeks later he had an absolute mare.

Please find some Waratahs fans here calling for Wells to make the Wallabies. The only person I can remember consistently calling it was the Reds fan zero_cool or whatever his name was that was using it to help his claim that he wasn't biased towards Reds players.

 

[meatpie]

R3, that was my main point about Powell - he was in the squad as No 3, not given any substantial game time and now apparently discarded for Gordon who has done nothing of note to push ahead and also has been given no game time in the Wallabies.

I would prefer Gordon to Phipps, no problem, but I don't rate him No 2 in the country. As I said, I think Ruru has more of an all round game and is more likely to provide the Genia type of involvements as Genia drops out of the picture (which on current form may be ssoner that we'd wish). As far as the NRC is concerned, the next best No 9 is Ian Prior. His leadership and goal kicking sets him apart from the other contenders. I am also sorry that Louwrens didn't stick around and give it a try for higher honours. There is a lot to like about his game.

Holloway is a mystery. Like FP above, I think he's had his best games for the Tahs at lock, but there is little to no chance of being selected there in the Wallabies. In another place, someone (Nutta, I think) asked if there were any smokies for the tour. In jest I suggested there weren't any more light blue jerseys available to be selected. How wrong was I? Forgot about Jed completely. As a lock/No 6, Matt Philip has done much more to earn a jersey than Jed (who, btw, I have always regarded highly, but his form in recent years has been really patchy). He (Jed) hasn't even been outstanding in the NRC - apart from Philip, players like Lee-Warner, Swain and Enever have been better at lock, and Leota, ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Brynard Stander better in the back row. His selection does pose some questions.

Yeah, I'd rate Slipper as very unlucky too. He has had a very strong NRC and has substantially better form at test level than Ainsley. Think BT must have had some input there.

I have no issue at all with Cottrell getting called into the squad. I hope he can get some time on the field at some stage.

I suggest you have a look at the shute shield games and NRC games he was involved in. Gordon, was banging and knocking doors down all over the place. Clearly the form backup for Genia and clearly deserved selection.

 

[Silverado]

C'mon BH. By your logic, the situation should surely be that both Miller and Wells, as the better performing back rowers (ignore Hooper) in the Tahs who contributed to the outstanding back row statistics should also be in the Wallabies, as they were better than some who are there or others who didn't even play a game or much. I might also remind you that there were many Tahs fans through the year calling for Wells' selection for the Wallabies.

I really have had a gutful of the justifications put forward defending the selection of Tahs players over better performing players from other teams. And please note before embarking on an allegation of bias on my behalf, that I have nominated players from every other Aussie team, including the Western Force, as being among those hard done by.

I don’t think you have a pro Brumbies bias, but your anti NSW bias is quite relentless

 

[Derpus]

How good is arguing about the pooper all day everyday? Pretty fucken good i reckon

 

[Slim 293]

How good is arguing about the pooper all day everyday? Pretty fucken good i reckon

Don't worry, it's only going to get better if or when Liam Gill comes back.........

 

[RugbyReg]

I suggest you have a look at the shute shield games and NRC games he was involved in. Gordon, was banging and knocking doors down all over the place. Clearly the form backup for Genia and clearly deserved selection.

can't speak for his club games (did he play many) but his NRC form was not that good. Certainly not as dominant as previous years.

 

[Wilson]

How good is arguing about the pooper all day everyday? Pretty fucken good i reckon

I think people just enjoy saying and typing "Pooper" too much, I've really come to regret giving it such a catchy name.

 

[Forcefield]

I love how we all bang on about one or two selections that are irrelevant as they'll probably not have much impact on our team performance. Why aren't we complaining about still having an attack coach who can't coach attack and a defence coach who can't coach defence. I had to laugh in the week on hearing a rumour that they might swap roles. Only with the Wallabies...

 

[Bobby Sands]

Dempsey is the new savior, and one of the last players that actually fills me with any hope.

 

[Joe Blow]

There is no saviour. But look at the side and where it can be improved.

The back row makeup has not been producing.
Hooker has been a problem spot.
Maybe a change at 13.

That’s about it.
Bled 3 last year we had a backrow of Dempsey, Hooper and McMahon.
Simmons and Coleman were in the second row and TK was at 13. TPN started at hooker.

Forward play in general has been poor outside of the scrum.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don’t think you have a pro Brumbies bias, but your anti NSW bias is quite relentless

Only in regard to certain players Silver. And I hasten to mention that I was equally "relentless" about Rob Simmons when he was a Red. I call it as I see it.

I might also mention that I was one of the very few who tipped the Tahs to win the Aussie Super Rugby conference this year before the first game. I am not anti-Tahs per se, but I certainly dislike the preferential treatment some of their less deserving personnel get from the national coach and selector.

 

[Sully]

I love how we all bang on about one or two selections that are irrelevant as they'll probably not have much impact on our team performance. Why aren't we complaining about still having an attack coach who can't coach attack and a defence coach who can't coach defence. I had to laugh in the week on hearing a rumour that they might swap roles. Only with the Wallabies.

Actually the All Blacks assistants did it a couple of years ago.