NSW AAGPS 2019

[P. Parker]

NSW2 have won the Nationals three times since 1975: 77, 79 & 2016.
NSW2 have beaten NSW1 twice in the Final: 77 & 2016.

!977 was the year the Ella Bros, from CHS and Matraville High played.
The Australian Schoolboys that year went on to sweep all before them on their European tour, receiving rave reviews.
Wally Lewis couldn't make the run on side.

That was a great year for the Australian Schoolboys - but I think you will find that 1981 was better.

During the 1981-82 Australian Schoolboys Tour of the UK and Ireland, the Australian team came home undefeated and having only conceded one try.

A total of ten Wallabies came out of that 1981-82 Schoolboys Tour, equalling the highest number from any schoolboy year. The team included Matthew Burke, David Knox, Tim Kava, Cameron Lillicrap, Michael Lynagh, Brett Papworth, Ian Williams, Steven Tuynman, Brad Burke and Mark Hartill.

Of the 27 players touring, 17 were from NSW, 6 were from QLD and 4 were from the ACT. 11 of the 17 from NSW were CHS students.

School-State-Players
Epping Boys HS-NSW-3
Waverley College-NSW-3
St Edmunds College-ACT-3
Brisbane Grammar-QLD-2
Nudgee College-QLD-1
Shore-NSW-1
Sydney Boys HS-NSW-1
Hurlstone Ag HS-NSW-1
St Joseph's College-NSW-1
Balgowlah Boys HS-NSW-1
James Ruse Ag HS-NSW-1
Crows Nest HS-NSW-1
Caringbah HS-NSW-1
Gregory Terrace-QLD-1
Matraville HS-NSW-1
Marist College, Ashgrove-QLD-1
The Southport School-QLD-1
Scots College-NSW-1
Stirling College-ACT-1
Hunters Hill HS-NSW-1

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^All of the state schools mentioned above had weekly Wednesday afternoon CHS zone competitions to play in, which ran all winter (all of Term 2 in those days of a 3 term year). I was in Year 12 in 1981 and played with and against most of the Sydney-based CHS boys in the team either at school rugby or in Saturday junior club rugby. Sadly most of the Wednesday afternoon zone competitions are gone and Saturday junior club rugby is but a memory.

 

[Gotheboys]

^^^All of the state schools mentioned above had weekly Wednesday afternoon CHS zone competitions to play in, which ran all winter (all of Term 2 in those days of a 3 term year). I was in Year 12 in 1981 and played with and against most of the Sydney-based CHS boys in the team either at school rugby or in Saturday junior club rugby. Sadly most of the Wednesday afternoon zone competitions are gone and Saturday junior club rugby is but a memory.

I'm sure the demise of the once coveted Waratah Shield has played a major impact in rugby's lack of participation in the CHS schools..

At the peak of the shield there was over 100 school 1st XVs contesting it and a large percentage of them were CHS schools.

It would be to the benefit of rugby in NSW and the ACT to see it revamped

 

[Joker]

Just to follow up here....
Cranbrook vs Joeys in the 1980s'
The scholars have gotten back to me.

1981- NO GAME
1982- NO GAME
1983- NO GAME
1984- NO GAME
1985- Joeys won 14-7
1986- Cranbrook won 6-4
1987- NO GAME
1988- NO GAME
1989- Joeys won 25-6

 

[formerflanker]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...bies-star-and-nagasaki-survivor-cecil-ramalli
Or one who never got a chance.

What a great read. Thanks.

 

[Black & White]

Just to follow up here..
Cranbrook vs Joeys in the 1980s'
The scholars have gotten back to me.

1981- NO GAME
1982- NO GAME
1983- NO GAME
1984- NO GAME
1985- Joeys won 14-7
1986- Cranbrook won 6-4
1987- NO GAME
1988- NO GAME
1989- Joeys won 25-6

Hello Joker

If memory serves me correctly Cranbrook beat Joeys in 1988 15-10. Cranbrook kicked 5 penalties to 2 Joeys tries. Joeys might have being fielding a 2nd XV. Not sure about that

Regards B&W

 

[Black & White]

^^^All of the state schools mentioned above had weekly Wednesday afternoon CHS zone competitions to play in, which ran all winter (all of Term 2 in those days of a 3 term year). I was in Year 12 in 1981 and played with and against most of the Sydney-based CHS boys in the team either at school rugby or in Saturday junior club rugby. Sadly most of the Wednesday afternoon zone competitions are gone and Saturday junior club rugby is but a memory.

Hello QH

The Phillips Zone that contained Sydney Boys High, North Sydney Boys High, Randwick Boys High, Matraville High, Fort Street Boys High, Cleveland Street Boys High, Vaucluse Boys High and other schools was a particularly strong zone. These days very few of these schools play Rugby at all.

Ms Castle needs to focus on this grass roots Rugby. If we get the schoolboys and Club Juniors right, senior Rugby has the foundations to perform.

Its not Rocket Science,

 

[Joker]

Hello Joker

If memory serves me correctly Cranbrook beat Joeys in 1988 15-10. Cranbrook kicked 5 penalties to 2 Joeys tries. Joeys might have being fielding a 2nd XV. Not sure about that

Regards B&W

Thanks. I will ask our resident archive guru when I see him in the Library basement. It may have been the 2nds who played as the 1988 Joeys team were something special I recall my brother telling me. It was Boyd's first of many premierships.


EDIT My brother says the 1988 College magazine says nothing about a trial game against Cranbrook in 1988.

 

[Quick Hands]

Thanks. I will ask our resident archive guru when I see him in the Library basement. It may have been the 2nds who played as the 1988 Joeys team were something special I recall my brother telling me. It was Boyd's first of many premierships.


EDIT My brother says the 1988 College magazine says nothing about a trial game against Cranbrook in 1988.

Joker and the archivist in the Joeys basement??????

 

[Joker]

We even have the latest tech at Joeys to help us catalogue

 

[Balmain Subbies]

That was a great year for the Australian Schoolboys - but I think you will find that 1981 was better.

During the 1981-82 Australian Schoolboys Tour of the UK and Ireland, the Australian team came home undefeated and having only conceded one try.

A total of ten Wallabies came out of that 1981-82 Schoolboys Tour, equalling the highest number from any schoolboy year. The team included Matthew Burke, David Knox, Tim Kava, Cameron Lillicrap, Michael Lynagh, Brett Papworth, Ian Williams, Steven Tuynman, Brad Burke and Mark Hartill.

Of the 27 players touring, 17 were from NSW, 6 were from QLD and 4 were from the ACT. 11 of the 17 from NSW were CHS students.

School-State-Players
Epping Boys HS-NSW-3
Waverley College-NSW-3
St Edmunds College-ACT-3
Brisbane Grammar-QLD-2
Nudgee College-QLD-1
Shore-NSW-1
Sydney Boys HS-NSW-1
Hurlstone Ag HS-NSW-1
St Joseph's College-NSW-1
Balgowlah Boys HS-NSW-1
James Ruse Ag HS-NSW-1
Crows Nest HS-NSW-1
Caringbah HS-NSW-1
Gregory Terrace-QLD-1
Matraville HS-NSW-1
Marist College, Ashgrove-QLD-1
The Southport School-QLD-1
Scots College-NSW-1
Stirling College-ACT-1
Hunters Hill HS-NSW-1

I believe that team also included Colin Scotts who went on to play in the NFL instead of staying with rugby. He always said he wishes he could of comeback for a tilt at the gold jersey if not for a knee injury.

 

[formerflanker]

I believe that team also included Colin Scotts who went on to play in the NFL instead of staying with rugby. He always said he wishes he could of comeback for a tilt at the gold jersey if not for a knee injury.

Wikipedia supports your facts.
I also read that Colin went into the WWF as "The Thunder from Down Under".
He was always happy to do motivational talks to Scots players. A good guy.

 

[GTPIH]

The 1997/78 team also produced 10 Wallabies (plus Wally Lewis) -

the Ellas, Michael O'Connor, Tony Melrose, Michael Hawker, Chris Roche, Tony D'Arcy, Shane Nightingale and Dominic Vaughan.​

The team were undefeated over 16 matches (the 1981/82 team only played 10 matches) scoring 110 tries and conceding 6 tries for a total points for/against of 555/97

 

[sidelineview]

The 1997/78 team also produced 10 Wallabies (plus Wally Lewis) -

the Ellas, Michael O'Connor, Tony Melrose, Michael Hawker, Chris Roche, Tony D'Arcy, Shane Nightingale and Dominic Vaughan.​

The team were undefeated over 16 matches (the 1981/82 team only played 10 matches) scoring 110 tries and conceding 6 tries for a total points for/against of 555/97

They didn't just receive rave reviews for their outstanding undefeated record, but for their entertaining running rugby style of play.
They were coached by Matraville High Rugby Coach Geoff Mould who informed his players if they kicked unnecessarily they would be dropped.

 

[sidelineview]

As a matter of interest re the 77/78 Schoolboy team.

https://www.rugby.com.au/videos/2017/04/04/05/58/1977-schoolboys-40-years-later

The often caustic but always perceptive London Daily Telegraph rugby correspondent, John Reason wrote: "The Australians play a style of football which has certainly not been seen in this country since the war, if ever."
"They make overlaps from close quarters as naturally as they breathe, and undoubtedly the stars of the team are the three Ella brothers- Glen, Gary and Mark.
"They are absolute magic as handlers and runners. Their impromptu work at close quarters, both in the use of the ball and in working round opponents was something completely beyond the experience of the England boys, who have grown up in a very much more orthodox game."

Terry O'Connor, the experienced Daily Mail rugby writer started one news report under the headline of "Aussies just run and run" with: "A group of Australian schoolboys have been shaking the foundations of British rugby for the past five weeks.... The Australian boys approach is simple- run and pass at speed with unlimited support

 

[Joker]

approach is simple- run and pass at speed with unlimited support

Sounds similar to the ethos espoused by the great Br Henry who at Joeys had cardinal rule of...

'possession, position and pace'.

Br Henry believed in a spirit of selflessness, co-ordination and comradeship. He once said, 'we have no outstanding players—we produce teams, not individuals'. He told the boys, 'Better an honourable defeat, than a mean victory'. To him, Rugby was a powerful influence in moulding character and developing manly virtues.

Former English international and Australian selector G. V. Portus summed up his style of Rugby: 'His teams exploit a great variety of modes of attack. They use quick transfers to the wingers, the short punt through, a timely cross-kick, a burst through by five-eighth or centre, the reverse movement to the waiting forwards.'

He won 21 x 1st XV premierships and 20 x 2nd XV premierships

 

[Harv]

Hello QH

The Phillips Zone that contained Sydney Boys High, North Sydney Boys High, Randwick Boys High, Matraville High, Fort Street Boys High, Cleveland Street Boys High, Vaucluse Boys High and other schools was a particularly strong zone. These days very few of these schools play Rugby at all.

Ms Castle needs to focus on this grass roots Rugby. If we get the schoolboys and Club Juniors right, senior Rugby has the foundations to perform.

Its not Rocket Science,

Agree. Getting schoolboys and especially club rugby right is the challenge, especially since the demise of organized and competitive sport through the CHS.

I won't labor this as I realize I'm dribbling on in the GPS thread, but if you take a step back, it's so obvious that it's not just the current admin that has stuffed this up, it goes back decades when the sport had the chance to be more inclusive and embrace the diverse interest the game was generating nationally.

Instead of further spreading the gospel to the great unwashed it closed ranks and went back to leaning heavily on the private schools, virtually abandoning development through the club system in cities and crucially the bush.

I think some rugby brethren make the mistake of viewing this sort of a statement as a criticism of great associations like GPS -- it ain't .. strong GPS, Associated Schools and ISA comps are vital, and an advantage rugby has -- or had -- but not at the expense of mobilizing where most Australians play their sport, in public schools or through club systems.

If the CHS structure has withered, there needs to be a pointed and sustained effort to rebirth rugby culture where it has been allowed to die. The GPS system will always produce a premier comp, but how good would it be to one day see a strong club side or team from a specialized sports high school change the might of Joeys etc in a preseason hit-out?

 

[Black & White]

Agree. Getting schoolboys and especially club rugby right is the challenge, especially since the demise of organized and competitive sport through the CHS.

I won't labor this as I realize I'm dribbling on in the GPS thread, but if you take a step back, it's so obvious that it's not just the current admin that has stuffed this up, it goes back decades when the sport had the chance to be more inclusive and embrace the diverse interest the game was generating nationally.

Instead of further spreading the gospel to the great unwashed it closed ranks and went back to leaning heavily on the private schools, virtually abandoning development through the club system in cities and crucially the bush.

I think some rugby brethren make the mistake of viewing this sort of a statement as a criticism of great associations like GPS -- it ain't .. strong GPS, Associated Schools and ISA comps are vital, and an advantage rugby has -- or had -- but not at the expense of mobilizing where most Australians play their sport, in public schools or through club systems.

If the CHS structure has withered, there needs to be a pointed and sustained effort to rebirth rugby culture where it has been allowed to die. The GPS system will always produce a premier comp, but how good would it be to one day see a strong club side or team from a specialized sports high school change the might of Joeys etc in a preseason hit-out?

Well done, Harv, my own personal belief that trying to rebuild CHS Rugby at present might well be a lost cause. An alternative to the elite schoolboy competitions would be a major investment directly into club juniors. The more effort a club puts into their juniors, the stronger they will become as at the senior level. Provided they are not stolen by the dark side.

First step would be the 6-12 year olds, before they enter secondary school, a major effort is needed here. If Rugby is their first game they play this age group will carry their love of the game into their secondary school years. This is were soccer has it over Rugby at the moment.A major effort is required here.

Next, the 13-18 age group based on the same structure that the GPS,CAS and ISA schools have. This would enable boys not attending traditional Rugby playing schools to be organised into a similar format. So say Eastwood U/18s would be able to have a 1st and 2nd grade sides and maybe even more say 3rds, 4ths. They would be supported by u/16s,u/15s,U/14s,U13s teams. Ideally at least two teams per age group. But encouragement should be aimed at expanding teams of all abilities. So say Eastwood would have its own 6th or 7th Grade in the opens.Together with 16Ds or 16Es, while down in the 13s,sides might include Fs and Gs. These teams would run by professional coaches and fall under the control of clubs and say the NSW Rugby and even Rugby Australia.

This would enable such Club sides, to play GPS, CAS and ISA schools. If we could get 10-12 club sides in Sydney and Brisbane fielding 25-30 teams between 13-18 age groups I believe Rugby Australia fortunes would change over night. Also, this model could also copied in Melbourne and Perth. Where schools are dominated by Aussie Rules and Rugby struggles to make itself felt.

But it requires a massive investment in Club Juniors, a professional commitment by the Clubs and some far reaching thinking or thinking outside the Box.

Raylene Castle, this your moment where you can demonstrate that your leader and a innovator. The salvation of Australian Rugby lies before you. Or you can choose to make the same mistakes Bill Pulver made and simply ignore the game at the grass roots level. With the same results we now experiencing, that without doubt will flow into test level Rugby.

 

[Up and under]

Club rugby is definitely the way to go, as Rugby Australia has no control over school rugby.

RA definitely relies on rugby schools to nurture and produce the next batch of rugby stars, but they have no say in what goes on. For example, if a prominent rugby school changes headmasters and he/she decides to introduce AFL to the school sporting curriculum, RA has no control over this decision. By introducing AFL, young students who always played rugby, are given another option and potentially lost to rugby forever. RA cannot change that decision. So they are at the mercy of rugby loving school hierarchies.

I played in a very strong CHS competition at school. A mid-week comp which was equally as strong as the weekend GPS competition. Playing against tough, physical and uncompromising schools like Cleveland St, Matraville, Randwick BHS, JJ Cahill, North Sydney Boys, South Sydney BHS. Most of these boys played league on the weekends, but enjoyed playing rugby for their schools. These are the type of boys that Australian Rugby needs, but as B&W states, sadly that horse has bolted. Back in the 70's and 80's, CHS regularly defeated GPS in the combined rep fixtures, providing the majority of the players in the schoolboy teams.

However, with club rugby, RA has full control over what goes on. Competition structure, training, development, promotion etc. This is where all their energies should be placed. They are not only nurturing and developing players from rugby schools who back up and play for their club on a Sunday, but more importantly, targeting those players that don't attend rugby schools and only have club rugby as their one opportunity to play the game.

It's not rocket science. You provide a wider net, you have more players to choose from.

 

[Flavio]

are not only nurturing and developing players from rugby schools who back up and play for their club on a Sunday, but more importantly, targeting those players that don't attend rugby schools and only have club rugby as their one opportunity to play the game.

It's not rocket science. You provide a wider net, you have more players to choose from.

One problem is most clubs reduce to one team as they get to the 14's or 15's, this team is usually made up of Rep players. The others are not up to that standard but want to have a run with their mates. They get little game time in the team and consequently give it away. There needs to be a avenue for these boys and a more proactive approach from RA to say - Club x will be the rep team for the area and field a team in 1st grade, club y will field a team in 3rd grade and club z will field a team in 6th grade, rather than three clubs having 1 1/12 teams