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Reds 2020

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If the Reds don't feel that he is dealing with them in good faith, then why should they continue to deal with him?


Because if the players still have him as their agent, they're effectively still dealing with him to get any deal done. He's just not in the meetings.

Is the player agent the one deriving the power or is it via the player they represent? I can't imagine Picone wields anywhere near the sort of power or causes the clubs trying to sign someone as many issues when he's acting for Campbell Magnay compared to Samu Kerevi or Izack Rodda.
 

Tomikin

Simon Poidevin (60)
paywalled. anyone care to copy?
The strained relationship between powerful player agent Anthony Picone and the Queensland Rugby Union has finally reached breaking point, with the QRU deciding to negotiate contracts directly with his players, excluding him from all talks.

The decision of Picone-managed Samu Kerevi to join Japanese club Suntory Sungoliaths on a three-year contract following the World Cup, a deal the QRU and Rugby Australia felt they had little opportunity to counter, is understood to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.
The QRU and RA always believed that even as they were conducting talks with Picone about Kerevi’s intentions, the Sungoliaths somehow had a headstart on the Queensland captain’s services.
In a bid to resolve that issue, The Australian put in writing a two-part question to Picone: Had you or Samu Kerevi signed an MOU or pre-agreement with Suntory before the end of January? Did you really give RA and/or the QRU a legitimate chance to negotiate?
Picone responded through his lawyers. “Any suggestion that the QRU were not given a legitimate opportunity to negotiate for Samu Kerevi’s services is false.”
He made no mention of Rugby Australia. Nor did he answer the critical question of whether Kerevi’s fate had been sealed in January, though it was not formally announced that he was heading to Japan until June.
Yet the showdown between one of the major unions in Australia and the man regarded as one of the powerbrokers of the game has been several years in the making, with the Reds repeatedly emerging as losers in Picone-brokered deals involving players nurtured and developed in the Queensland rugby system.
Will Genia, Liam Gill and Campbell Magnay all ventured overseas just as they were at or about to reach their peak. Lately the players heading interstate or overseas from Picone’s “stable” have become even younger, with Nudgee College five-eighth Reesjan Pasitoa last December turning down a Reds offer and signing with the Brumbies instead. He was 17 at the time.


Neither the QRU nor Rugby Australia would comment on the decision to exclude Picone from any player negotiations. It is understood that Scott Johnson, Rugby Australia’s director of rugby, has been looking at the issue of player agents, but he is in New Caledonia with the Wallabies and could not be contacted. Still, this looks to be the opening shot in a long-promised campaign to regulate player-manager activity.
It is understood that the Reds simply have told his players that they will negotiate only with them. That in no way precludes them from taking advice from Picone before or after their meetings. It simply means that their manager is not physically present while the terms of their contracts are being worked through. His players include lock Izack Rodda — who he insists he is still negotiating for — and Harry Hockings, centre Chris Feauai-Sautia, hooker Sean Farrell and five-eighth Carter Gordon.

Asked about the ban, Picone replied: “Firstly, can I say that it is disappointing to hear via the media of a rumour circulating that the QRU is refusing to negotiate with me in person. I certainly haven’t been advised of that by the QRU and if there is any truth to the rumour then I’d expect them to have raised it with me formally and I’d question their motives for doing so.”

Picone may not have been formally advised by the QRU but he was unsurprised by the rumour and indeed told The Australian he had just returned from speaking with his lawyers about it.
“My obligation as a rugby agent under our contract, the RUPA regulations and CBA is to represent the client’s best interests at all times,” he said. “That is what I do. My clients have a right to independent, impartial representation which afford them an equal voice in negotiations and a sense of security and support throughout such dealing.”
He was unapologetic that so many of his clients ended up leaving Queensland, either for overseas-based clubs or interstate to rival Super Rugby franchises.

“I am a player’s agent,” said Picone. “I have a fiduciary duty to act in my player’s best interests, which I do without fear or favour. The QRU’s job is to make it an attractive proposition to choose to play with the Reds, which no doubt they do to the best of their ability.”
Magnay, who grabbed a one-season deal with Suntory in 2017 which he took despite clear assurances from Wallabies coach Michael Cheika that he was in line for the spring tour to Europe at the end of that year, insists Picone has always dealt with him fairly.

“In 2015, 2017 and 2018 Anthony Picone laid out all options for me in relation to my playing career,” Magnay said. “The reason he is still my manager today is that he canvasses all the opportunities across rugby which are not just limited to Australia. He doesn’t sugarcoat anything, spells out the pros and cons of each offer.’’
It would have to be said, though, that Magnay’s drive towards the Wallabies has certainly been stalled by his Japan stint.

Picone is the only agent of the 15-odd managers that the Reds deal with who has been cut out of the loop. Significantly, of the 15 players recently announced as long-term signings in a strategy that Queensland is hoping will make the Reds a force again in Super Rugby, only one — Feauai-Sautia — is a Picone player.
Asked why he had been singled out, Picone replied: “The only legitimate reason that I can think of as to why the QRU would want to refuse to deal with me is because they believe they could gain some advantage over the players by preventing him from accessing advice from an experienced advocate. Assuming that the rumour is correct, perhaps the question that should be put to the QRU is what legitimate reason they have for trying to cut the player’s adviser out of the process.”

No attempt is being made by the QRU to induce players to change agents but certainly a clear message is being sent that Queensland is very much moving over to the system used in France and New Zealand, where rugby bodies will deal with only selected agents that all agree are working in the best interests of the players and the game.
 

Tomikin

Simon Poidevin (60)
Seems to be the destination.

I dont see that the manager's done too much wrong here, from what some of the players have said, he lays out all options with pro's and con's. Queensland just feel they are getting the rough end of the stick, which maybe they have.

The reference to the teenager going to Canberra is funny because he has been sponsored by a rich Brumbies fan (from what I can gather) to go play for the Brumbies in the new way the fighting fund keeps kids in our game, if I was a youngest offered a butt load of cash to go to a place who seem to develop talent, you be stupid not to take it, not the agents fault.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
We should be trying to sign Isaac Fines.

Better than Moses & Maloula will be ineligible soon.


Not based on his performance in the QLD Country vs Force game, Isaac was yanked from the field for atrocious kicking and decision making, that’s when the Spirit started their comeback.
 

Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
The Picones could (just about) put out one hell of a team - and I'm sure I've missed a few.

Rangi

Rodda
Hocking
McMahon
Gill
Naisarani
Genia
Cooper
Magnay
Kerevi
Kurindrani
Pulu
Lucas
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
Not based on his performance in the QLD Country vs Force game, Isaac was yanked from the field for atrocious kicking and decision making, that’s when the Spirit started their comeback.


He’s great. You should watch more of him.
I think the Force will be an elite academy for super sides until it gets back into super.

While that sounds rude, I think Twiggy will want to see steady promotion to other sides as benchmarking that the program is working.

How was Paisami ? ;-)
 

SteveWA

Charlie Fox (21)
Not based on his performance in the QLD Country vs Force game, Isaac was yanked from the field for atrocious kicking and decision making, that’s when the Spirit started their comeback.


He was replaced by Prior at the same time as in the previous two games, so it looked like a planned substitution. From that point The Force showed more structure in defence and more patience in attack.
 

SouthernX

Peter Johnson (47)
Do you mean the guy who just signed a shitload of our young talent on long term deals? That Coedingley?

Unfortunately that’s not a reason to keep Cordingly

The players are staying because of the coach and culture... nothing to do with the pencil pusher.

I’m sure he is a nice bloke but his track record is abissmal and does not in anyway get my ring of endorsement... but that’s just me. I’m not a fan of SC.
 

Tomikin

Simon Poidevin (60)
First step is get rid of Cordingley

I can't believe he still has a job, he has been an absolute waste at the Rebel's then moved to the Red's and done nothing, except accept a pay check.. although recently his been quite but this report has his grubby mitts all over it. (P.S. I have no idea if that's true)
 

Getwithme

Cyril Towers (30)
Anthony Picone is the owner of NewStar Sports Management who have caused major problems within club rugby itself. Seems like both have legitimate reasons for being upset - question is now that they refuse to deal with him will his 'impartial view' change?

More broadly, this is a wider issue in not just rugby but all junior sports and we've seen it come to ahead in rugby league particularly with players having ugly splits with managers. I get there is some regulations and player managers want a piece of the pie but maybe something should be changed.

Also up to the club for that to be part of their planning - singing a whole team of players from one particular client means that you're at their mercy - maybe there is an opportunity for another player manager to join the local Brisbane talent pool?
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
The discussion of managers, players and the Reds always frustrates me.

As much as I want our great talent to remain, I am also mindful that they are one injury away from losing their earning potential.

As a Reds fan, I am obviously annoyed that we lose players like Gill and Kerevi but I have to realise that they have a family to support and need to think for them self, not a fan of the club who does not pay for their future.

The issue is not the Reds, it is a lack of funding in Australian rugby that does not allow us to compete with overseas contracts.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
He was replaced by Prior at the same time as in the previous two games, so it looked like a planned substitution. From that point The Force showed more structure in defence and more patience in attack.

Fair enough, might have been planned. It it was immediately after one of his kicks lead to a Country try, so looked like a yanking. Agree about the comments on Prior though, much more structured and patience with him at half.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Managers also have a family to feed. That’s generally their focus rather than what might be best for the player, in a wholistic sense, long term.

Genia and Cooper both took lucrative overseas contracts under Picone, only to get out of them to return home early didn’t they? Genia signed with the Force only to flip on them. Was that under Picone?
Magnays career has been set back quite significantly, he was in demand and could have earned a Wallaby cap. Now I think he will struggle to get a contract in 2020. That one season of obscurity in Japan has weakened his current and future bargaining potential essentially.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
I dont see that the manager's done too much wrong here, from what some of the players have said, he lays out all options with pro's and con's. Queensland just feel they are getting the rough end of the stick, which maybe they have.



The reference to the teenager going to Canberra is funny because he has been sponsored by a rich Brumbies fan (from what I can gather) to go play for the Brumbies in the new way the fighting fund keeps kids in our game, if I was a youngest offered a butt load of cash to go to a place who seem to develop talent, you be stupid not to take it, not the agents fault.



I also believe QRU have the same rights that NZ exercise which is to only deal with agents who have the best interests of the game. I am not suggesting manager did anything wrong but QRU are stating that in regards to Samu the agent did not allow them the timely opportunity to make a counter offer in disclosing the urgency to do so.

Lets face some facts - a lot of player agents are rogues and not suggesting for one minute that the agent here in question is...but equally prepared to give QRU the benefit of the doubt here too.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Anthony Picone is the owner of NewStar Sports Management who have caused major problems within club rugby itself. Seems like both have legitimate reasons for being upset - question is now that they refuse to deal with him will his 'impartial view' change?



More broadly, this is a wider issue in not just rugby but all junior sports and we've seen it come to ahead in rugby league particularly with players having ugly splits with managers. I get there is some regulations and player managers want a piece of the pie but maybe something should be changed.



Also up to the club for that to be part of their planning - singing a whole team of players from one particular client means that you're at their mercy - maybe there is an opportunity for another player manager to join the local Brisbane talent pool?



Interestingly in representing Magnay and Magnay choosing to go overseas has not seemed to exactly help his rugby career. So the question is whether Picone really get advise a player well in terms of what is best for there long term rugby career vs short term accepting a higher paycheck (which presume agent means short term earns more money commission wise which to me does represent a conflict of interest if only the agent advising the player)
 
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