Where to for Super Rugby?

[hoggy]

A great podcast to listen to Ali Williams is a funny bloke, kiwi perspective but great insight

https://player.fm/series/the-short-...l-boring-and-we-say-farewell-to-the-podfather

But they highlight just a couple of the issues regards Super rugby.

 

[Joe King]

If the NZRU was happy to pick test players from Australian teams, we could have a competition with more Australian teams involved because they would be more competitive. Interest would increase dramatically.

The problem is, the NZRU want to be able to control the management and conditioning of their own players for the sake of the AB's, which is fair enough. They do this so much better than Australia.

But is there a way for the NZRU to still have control of their players in this way, even if they allow NZ players to also play for Australian teams? Is there a way for Australian teams to do just as good a job at conditioning and developing their players as the NZ teams so that the NZRU could be fully confident in this idea.

If this problem could be solved - tough, though it is - it could be key in revolutionising Super Rugby for the better.

 

[half]

Wow this thread has over, three quarters of a million views, and almost 14 k posts, very impressive but for me it’s, so long for a while, work and holidays will take up a lot of time soon. Also, I have grown weary at the endless inefficiencies, lack of direction leadership & vision, by those in charge at both national and state levels.

It saddens me that from being the winter sport of choice in NSW state public schools in the early to mid 60’s to today struggling to hold the few state high schools with both GPS & CAS schools under pressure from AFL & soccer.

The lack of development of a national domestic coupled with appalling waste of revenue.

Player numbers are down despite population increases, and IMO the quality of junior players has decreased.

If at this stage posters and rugby folk in general, can’t see that Super Rugby is hurting rugby in Australia and we need to break away and develop a workable and sustainable plan “B” as a matter of urgency then so be it.

We have no consensus other than finally the recognition “Huston we have a problem”. My theory for this is too many people want virtual guarantees that are cast in stone for any change. This is further exacerbated by having no real separation of power between RA and Super Rugby.

Its not all doom and gloom rugby will be around for the foreseeable future, but maybe not with the status it has enjoyed to date.

On a happier note, bumped into an old mate who played break away for Gordon, the other day and we recalled the day my stirring got to and inside centre I nicked named cement shoes. Anywho cement shoes comes crashing in and knocks me over and then stands over me fists clenched glaring at me daring me to get up when over comes the flanker and grabs him by the shoulders lifts him off the ground and said leave em alone. While we were having coffee cement shoes walked pass and we waved him over and had a great afternoon. PS I did not play for Gordon and this was not a SS game.

 

[hoggy]

Wow this thread has over, three quarters of a million views, and almost 14 k posts, very impressive but for me it’s, so long for a while, work and holidays will take up a lot of time soon. Also, I have grown weary at the endless inefficiencies, lack of direction leadership & vision, by those in charge at both national and state levels.

It saddens me that from being the winter sport of choice in NSW state public schools in the early to mid 60’s to today struggling to hold the few state high schools with both GPS & CAS schools under pressure from AFL & soccer.

The lack of development of a national domestic coupled with appalling waste of revenue.

Player numbers are down despite population increases, and IMO the quality of junior players has decreased.

If at this stage posters and rugby folk in general, can’t see that Super Rugby is hurting rugby in Australia and we need to break away and develop a workable and sustainable plan “B” as a matter of urgency then so be it.

We have no consensus other than finally the recognition “Huston we have a problem”. My theory for this is too many people want virtual guarantees that are cast in stone for any change. This is further exacerbated by having no real separation of power between RA and Super Rugby.

Its not all doom and gloom rugby will be around for the foreseeable future, but maybe not with the status it has enjoyed to date.

On a happier note, bumped into an old mate who played break away for Gordon, the other day and we recalled the day my stirring got to and inside centre I nicked named cement shoes. Anywho cement shoes comes crashing in and knocks me over and then stands over me fists clenched glaring at me daring me to get up when over comes the flanker and grabs him by the shoulders lifts him off the ground and said leave em alone. While we were having coffee cement shoes walked pass and we waved him over and had a great afternoon. PS I did not play for Gordon and this was not a SS game.

I think the game here has given up, check this article in the SMH on Saturday, i just shook my head after it and realized that the game here is going nowhere in a hurry.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...de-niche-australian-code-20190720-p5291w.html

 

[Dan54]

If the NZRU was happy to pick test players from Australian teams, we could have a competition with more Australian teams involved because they would be more competitive. Interest would increase dramatically.

The problem is, the NZRU want to be able to control the management and conditioning of their own players for the sake of the AB's, which is fair enough. They do this so much better than Australia.

But is there a way for the NZRU to still have control of their players in this way, even if they allow NZ players to also play for Australian teams? Is there a way for Australian teams to do just as good a job at conditioning and developing their players as the NZ teams so that the NZRU could be fully confident in this idea.

If this problem could be solved - tough, though it is - it could be key in revolutionising Super Rugby for the better.

Yes Joe, even I as a one eyed Kiwi would be comfortable if there was some way of still getting players released and not overused by Aus teams , but I can't see it happening unfortunately, see even the way players are rested is different ways in both countries.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Something that could have an impact on the future of Super Rugby is the supposed plans for a 24 team British/Irish League. If it happens and most consider it a fairly big if. But if it happens it doesn't seem to be taking into consideration the Sth African team (or the Italian ones for that matter) that currently play in the Pro14. Which will certainly make for some interesting times.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-four-regions-playing-new-16621172

 

[Joe King]

Yes Joe, even I as a one eyed Kiwi would be comfortable if there was some way of still getting players released and not overused by Aus teams , but I can't see it happening unfortunately, see even the way players are rested is different ways in both countries.

It's a tough problem to solve, but would be better for both countries if a workable solution was put in place. NZ will have a lot to lose as well if rugby continues to decline in Oz. We may be forced to find a solution.

We may need to think outside the box. Even if it was only with the Rebels and Force (and any new teams that were to start in the future). I'd be happy for those teams to be run the NZ way, with the NZRU having control over their players.

Now I know it's not that simple, and that may not be the solution. But we need to start thinking outside the box.

NZ has the players. Oz has the market. You or I may not be in a position to solve it, but we need a bit of optimism. Where there's a will there's a way.

If rugby starts to grow in Oz again, and if Oz players benefit from better development and conditioning structures, then not only do we have a 2nd tier that can fight back, but an added benefit is the value of the Bledisloe goes up as well.

 

[hoggy]

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/09/10/superrugby-2020-draw

Its official Super rugby is now a summer sport

 

[kiap]

Well, well, well …

Rugby World Cup 2019: Japan in line for inclusion to Rugby Championship, Sunwolves set to return​

​

43 minutes ago​

Andrew Gourdie​

​

… <snip> …​

​

… The dawn of a new day came with a silver lining for Japanese rugby fans, with shock developments on a possible return to Super Rugby for the Sunwolves​

​

Newshub understands the topic will be on the agenda at a SANZAAR meeting in Tokyo on Friday, where they’ll also discuss how to get Japan into the Rugby Championship.​

​

Head of World Rugby Brett Gosper has encouraged them to move fast to capitalise on the momentum created by the hosts’ stunning performance at the World Cup.​

​

"Certainly if I was in their shoes I’d be very keen to have Japan in my competition sooner rather than later," Gosper told Newshub.​

​

Gosper also suggested there could be a tug of war between the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship to add Japan to their respective annual tournament.​

​

Newshub’s learned the key could lie in the Sunwolves' Super Rugby reinstatement.​

​

The team was dropped from the competition earlier this year, with Japanese Rugby’s refusal to underwrite the team’s participation beyond 2020.​

​

But it’s understood the board that made that decision has changed, and with it, attitudes within the union towards Japan’s participation in Super Rugby.​

​

A 15-team round robin competition and Japan's inclusion in the Rugby Championship are expected to be discussed at Friday's meeting.​

​

… <snip> …​

read the full piece Here

 

[barbarian]

I'll give every poster on here $100 if Japan are admitted into the Six Nations.

 

[kiap]

I'll give every poster on here $100 if Japan are admitted into the Six Nations.

Fiji get added with Japan for the 'new' 6Nzar and I claim my 5 lobsters

 

[kiap]

But you're right, ol' mate Gosper is just adding his jawbone

I wonder how long he'll be staying on, as well.

 

[zer0]

They should never have been removed in the first place, so I'd definitely readmit the Sunwolves to Super Rugby. Also remove that fee they had to pay to participate, and play all their matches in Japan. None of this Singapore silliness.

Will also be interesting if SARU stamp their feet again, and if they do, how much heed RA and NZR pay them.

EDIT: I'd also admit Japan to the RC. Though I don't expect them to consistently perform at the level they have at the RWC, as they're losing coaches and won't have that ~200 days together.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I'll give every poster on here $100 if Japan are admitted into the Six Nations.

They'll have to apologise to the pith helmet brigade about Burma for a start

 

[hoggy]

Well, well, well …

Rugby World Cup 2019: Japan in line for inclusion to Rugby Championship, Sunwolves set to return​

​

43 minutes ago​

Andrew Gourdie​

​

… <snip> …​

​

… The dawn of a new day came with a silver lining for Japanese rugby fans, with shock developments on a possible return to Super Rugby for the Sunwolves​

​

Newshub understands the topic will be on the agenda at a SANZAAR meeting in Tokyo on Friday, where they’ll also discuss how to get Japan into the Rugby Championship.​

​

Head of World Rugby Brett Gosper has encouraged them to move fast to capitalise on the momentum created by the hosts’ stunning performance at the World Cup.​

​

"Certainly if I was in their shoes I’d be very keen to have Japan in my competition sooner rather than later," Gosper told Newshub.​

​

Gosper also suggested there could be a tug of war between the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship to add Japan to their respective annual tournament.​

​

Newshub’s learned the key could lie in the Sunwolves' Super Rugby reinstatement.​

​

The team was dropped from the competition earlier this year, with Japanese Rugby’s refusal to underwrite the team’s participation beyond 2020.​

​

But it’s understood the board that made that decision has changed, and with it, attitudes within the union towards Japan’s participation in Super Rugby.​

​

A 15-team round robin competition and Japan's inclusion in the Rugby Championship are expected to be discussed at Friday's meeting.​

​

… <snip> …​

read the full piece Here

OH, So now SANZAAR need Japan do they, if I was Japan I would tell them to take a flying leap.

 

[brokendown]

They'll have to apologise to the pith helmet brigade about Burma for a start

and Changi

 

[Adam84]

OH, So now SANZAAR need Japan do they, if I was Japan I would tell them to take a flying leap.

Why though, JFRU withdrew support of the Sunwolves which was a big reason they were cut, SANZAR nations outside of that have been pretty bloody helpful to Japan.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

They should never have been removed in the first place, so I'd definitely readmit the Sunwolves to Super Rugby. Also remove that fee they had to pay to participate, and play all their matches in Japan. None of this Singapore silliness.

Will also be interesting if SARU stamp their feet again, and if they do, how much heed RA and NZR pay them.

EDIT: I'd also admit Japan to the RC. Though I don't expect them to consistently perform at the level they have at the RWC, as they're losing coaches and won't have that ~200 days together.

Of course the sun wolves should never have been kicked out as the only decision SANZAAR should have made is how to change the competition etc to make teams like sunwolves more competitive. Super Rugby is broken and they need a organisation who can take a more innovative approach to designing super rugby which challenges tradional norms and the status quo

 

[barbarian]

Why though, JFRU withdrew support of the Sunwolves which was a big reason they were cut, SANZAR nations outside of that have been pretty bloody helpful to Japan.

Plus we've played a number of Tests in Japan over the years. Far more than in the Pacific Islands!

There's definitely scope for another look at the Rugby Championship, at very least to see if Japanese involvement would drive up TV revenue.
.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If they get this new league up and running then there's no reason for the Sunwolves to play in Super Rugby. What could happen is admit them into the RC. Run it over just the four games playing each other once. The Japanese national team squad could play their season assuming the proposed league is in place and then go into camp as they pretty much did this year while all of the imports go off either on holiday or ideally play Super Rugby.

Play four July games with each of Aus, NZ and Japan playing at least one game against a PI nation. Four RC games plus the extra Bled games for us and NZ and then the November tests. With a similar arrangement in regards to the likes of Georgia, USA and Uruguay.