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Australian Rugby / RA

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
I agree. Super Rugby, or any future competition, would probably benefit a lot from having a management team solely interested in the success of that particular competition. The committee of self interested national unions aren't suited to running anything. They just don't run it professionally.


It's been evident for a long time now that they view it more as an extended trial system and not a going concern. Which has completely stunted it's growth from a commercial sense. I'd happily wlecome anyone willing to take the professional game seriously as a commerical venture.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I for one would not like to see RA "cede control" to anybody : like them or loathe them, RA is our sport's governing body, and they represent all of us. And of course they are recognised as such by WR (World Rugby).

In order to first "cede control" one has to be in control in the first place. As near as I can see the whole thing is an out of control shambles.

Governing body (and I use the term loosely) yes. Representing "us" depends who you mean by "us". Don't think I've ever been asked who should serve on RA. Yes they are recognised by WR (World Rugby) - which is about the only thing that they have going for them..
 
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wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
In order to first "cede control" one has to be in control in the first place. As near as I can see the whole thing is an out of control shambles.

Governing body (and I use the term loosely) yes. Representing "us" depends who you mean by "us". Don't think I've ever been asked who should serve on RA. Yes they are recognised by WR (World Rugby) - which is about the only thing that they have going for them..


Good to see you back here. In most voluntary or not-for-profit organisations, if you want to get the top, you start at the bottom and work week after week. Not to doubt you, but have you done the hard yards that have earned you promotion through the serried ranks up to the point where you might be in contention for a say in who will sit at one of the top tables?
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
What fcucking rubbish.

as if the guy who’s been on Bbq duty for his local club for 20 years, has ever been asked to nominate or vote on possible board members of RA.
ditto the guy who’s been coaching lower grades all his adult life.


the committee who nominates new members of the RA board is appointed by the fucking board.....
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
Significant questions are bubbling to the surface regarding RA's current cash position.
Castle's salary has been slashed twice. As raised on this forum, that is a Board decision.
Castle's 2019 bonus of $114,000 has not been paid.
Players' retirement funds did not appear in the financial information disclosed to RUPA.
The 2019 annual report is not publicly available.
The auditors have not signed the 2019 financial reports.

All we can do here is guess at the current situation and the sooner the information is in the public domain the better for rugby.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Significant questions are bubbling to the surface regarding RA's current cash position.
Castle's salary has been slashed twice. As raised on this forum, that is a Board decision.
Castle's 2019 bonus of $114,000 has not been paid.
Players' retirement funds did not appear in the financial information disclosed to RUPA.
The 2019 annual report is not publicly available.
The auditors have not signed the 2019 financial reports.

All we can do here is guess at the current situation and the sooner the information is in the public domain the better for rugby.

Let's be clear.
Castle decided to cut her pay and at the least, defer her bonus.
The players retirement fund is fine and not touched by RA but maybe the markets have messed with it.
The annual report is not available because it's not signed off. It will be released as it is every year so that the vast majority of us can not read it. It's delayed because of Covid 19 like lots of other things. It's not a conspiracy.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
The annual report is not available because it's not signed off. It will be released as it is every year so that the vast majority of us can not read it. It's delayed because of Covid 19 like lots of other things.

My understanding is that KPMG have completed their work but will only sign off with a going concern qualification. As both Directors and Auditors must affirm that their is reasonable expectation that all debts and liabilities will be satisfied for a period of 12 months from the date of signing of the accounts. Do not suffer under any illusion that the Directors are just as unlikely to approve the accounts without either a broadcast deal or a pay cut deal with the players as are KPMG. It’s amazing how personal liability focuses the mind.

When your auditors won’t sign off your accounts without a going concern qualification I rate your chances of survival less than 10% at best. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
 

liquor box

Greg Davis (50)
There has been a lot of talk about player payments and the possibility of taking a pay cut.

The total payments to players is based on a percentage of total incoming revenue to RA as far as I know.

Why are salaries a fixed amount?

Surely if a players salary was a percentage of the total amount then their actual payment would allow RA to budget for emergency situations.

I would prefer a system where each Super Rugby Team got 20% of total revenue and the Wallabies top ups got 20%.

The players would get paid a percentage, not a dollar figure, so for example a Michael Hooper may get 1% of total revenue from the Tahs and 1% as a top up from the Wallabies to total 2% of total incoming revenue each season.

Other players would get lower percentages dependant on value to the teams they play for but the important thing is in successful years the percentage could be a lot bigger that other years and in an emergency then wage lowers to allow the business (RA) to continue to operate.

You never know, maybe this would encourage players to try their best to boost interest in the game and increase revenue.

This seems like a fairer system and allows for the players to gain higher earnings based on better performances.

I would also include a percentage of the Super Rugby Team revenue into the calculations so of a team is selling out a stadium each week they get a return on their performance.
 

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
The problem with that LB, is that an underperforming national team would create greater incentives to go overseas for the big dollars. You get a situation where it becomes a downward spiral, with poorer performances creating a lower income for players, more top players head overseas for bigger money, the national teams performances fall further, plus less top players on exhibition, crowds and sponsorships fall, and so the spiral continues.

Domestically it would mean the Tahs and the Reds, who attract bigger crowds and bigger sponsorship dollars, would attract the better players and so get relatively stronger. They too, however, would decline for the reasons stated above.

From a budgeting perspective it makes sense, but top payers would see themselves attracting less and less money as performances declined due to the lower standard of players around them.

I have a real estate agency, where commission payments are based on individual performance. If commission payments were based on the entire teams performance, the best salespeople would all quickly move to the top performing agency, it's market share would increase and the others fall further behind. When individuals get paid by their own performance, the number three agency can become number one if they get it right, as top performers are happy staying where they are as long as they're happy with their conditions and the culture, because they still have no limitations on their earning capacity.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
The possibility of RA going into receivership is an interesting one, I don't imagine the RUPA posturing would look all that brilliant if that happened!
The performance of the News Ltd papers in this instance has dropped even the pretence of editorial independence. Fox is on life support, and Castle's efforts on behalf of RA to secure a better deal has brought about the instruction from on high to crucify her by fair means or foul, and don't back off until she's gone and they can install their own puppet administration. Not that I ever thought there was genuine independence there, but they used to at least throw up a façade of independence, however they've dropped that now.
Really ugly stuff.

News limited fighting last stand to try and get its puppet back in control of RA and agreeing to deal with Foxtel who has lost subscribers in vast numbers I suspect with cancellation of all major sporting comps.

Whatever happens I do hope we have an option outside of Foxtel and do hope we make the brave decisions to ditch super rugby. Latter more likely will be forced on RA but hopefully we to a semi pro domestic comp.

I know twiggy msg about continuing with rapid rugby but my thinking is would be crazy for them not to look at easier options working with RA and more so because they should know they have one thing RA won’t have a lot of which is money - which compared to 3 months ago means twiggy would have powerful seat at the table.

To my mind covid 19 means crazy to now have rapid rugby and RA anointed comp (super rugby or new domestic competition).

Anyhow will be interesting to see what happens from here but for rapid rugby to continue with its previous plans and not have a rethink and ditto with RA would see strange and at least hopeful discussions centre on what a new rugby comp could look like involving oz super rugby sides as well as rapid rugby sides as I reckon oz super rugby sides won’t be able to afford to Keep their big stars and bring teams back to rapid rugby standard so well set for teams from both camps on more level playing field to compete in ONE competition.
 

ForceFan

Chilla Wilson (44)

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
The problem with that LB, is that an underperforming national team would create greater incentives to go overseas for the big dollars. You get a situation where it becomes a downward spiral, with poorer performances creating a lower income for players, more top players head overseas for bigger money, the national teams performances fall further, plus less top players on exhibition, crowds and sponsorships fall, and so the spiral continues.

Domestically it would mean the Tahs and the Reds, who attract bigger crowds and bigger sponsorship dollars, would attract the better players and so get relatively stronger. They too, however, would decline for the reasons stated above.

From a budgeting perspective it makes sense, but top payers would see themselves attracting less and less money as performances declined due to the lower standard of players around them.

I have a real estate agency, where commission payments are based on individual performance. If commission payments were based on the entire teams performance, the best salespeople would all quickly move to the top performing agency, it's market share would increase and the others fall further behind. When individuals get paid by their own performance, the number three agency can become number one if they get it right, as top performers are happy staying where they are as long as they're happy with their conditions and the culture, because they still have no limitations on their earning capacity.

Unfortunately, I think that the time to save full-time professional rugby in Australia has passed us by. There's been no planning or strategy by ARU/RA and state RUs beyond staying with the doomed model of pan-continental Super Rugby. There was a time in the early days of professionalism when this model worked well for us, but not for some time now. Professional sport is a business and like any business needs to react to changing circumstances and changing customer/viewer needs. So now we're like the typewriter company which kept making manual typewriters after the invention of the word processor- we're trying to sell a product that hardly anyone wants to buy. Not necessarily talking about the quality of the product or not - that company might have made state of the art typewriters but the world moved on. Super Rugby is the same, teams playing a home game and then disappearing into the early morning of SA for 2-3 weeks, back for a game and then off to NZ or Japan or Argentina. No opportunity to create interest, involvement or engagement beyond the rusted on followers.

Had RA reacted 5 years or so ago and served notice that we were going to leave Super Rugby and worked with broadcasters and stakeholders in planning something different, we wouldn't be in this position. But none of that occurred, even the mere suggestion of leaving Super Rugby was treated as a form of rugby heresy.

I think the reality is that your predictions are already happening. The players have sensed it and are already thinking about moves to Europe. What we will end up with will be that the Wallabies will resemble the Socceroos, with most of the big names playing club rugby in Europe and return for national duties while some sort of semi-professional domestic competition is played in Australia. A sad state of affairs, but the game has been in this death spiral in Australia for some time. The current coronavirus issues have probably only accelerated what was already in process.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Good to see Tim Horan finally acknowledge the benefits of Global Rapid Rugby as part of his 5-point plan for saving Australian Rugby.

For Australian Rugby to move forward.
1. RUPA/RA players pay deal
2. Loan from Aus Gov and World Rugby
3. 10/12 week 5 or 6 team domestic comp Force+Sunwolves July start.
4. Restart broadcast negotiations
5. 2021 Asian/Pac Super Rugby (with laws to allow ball in play longer). (aka Global Rapid Rugby)

Oh yeah. We thought of it first on G&GR, Tim. Check my post #14685 on the other thread: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...o-for-super-rugby.17402/page-735#post-1131017

The armchair pundits on this site have ALWAYS put the overall health of Oz rugby first. Unlike some.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
What we will end up with will be that the Wallabies will resemble the Socceroos, with most of the big names playing club rugby in Europe and return for national duties while some sort of semi-professional domestic competition is played in Australia. A sad state of affairs, but the game has been in this death spiral in Australia for some time. The current coronavirus issues have probably only accelerated what was already in process.

I don't think this is necessarily true. The Wallabies generate enough revenue that RA would always at least be able to fund 2 or 3 professional domestic sides that could compete with wages overseas. Even if those 2 or 3 sides continue to play in a further condensed Super Rugby competition with limited appeal.

But even if they go with the kind of scenario you mention, I think RA would probably be able to help fund a fully professional competition where players make enough money to be full time. There isn't an unlimited number of spots available overseas so while almost all the Wallabies level players would leave (and the Wallabies would become like the Socceroos), there'd still be a reasonable standard of player in the competition. Something like this may well work out okay.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
Oh yeah. We thought of it first on G&GR, Tim. Check my post #14685 on the other thread: http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...o-for-super-rugby.17402/page-735#post-1131017

The armchair pundits on this site have ALWAYS put the overall health of Oz rugby first. Unlike some.


I'd be especially interested in the domestic competition aspect. My hope would be that it would return ratings at a level enough to convince RA and broadcasters that say an 8 team competition based primarily around Australia would be a more beneficial option for all concerned.
 
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