Where to for Super Rugby?

[WorkingClassRugger]

BPA from NSW too. Well originally NZ. I like the idea of SoO. Would you squeeze DHP, Uelese etc into this or are they left out? Could do ACT and Vic to NSW as they border and WA to QLD.

I also like the idea of possible vs probables but don't think that this will get as much of a following as teams will change every year and you can't build an allegiance to either team. I think only us tragics would watch.

Ha. Missed that one.

 

[KOB1987]

He's from Evan's Head and only relocated to Queensland for the last two years of his schooling. He's from New South Wales.

OK fair play. However, from the research I did trying to link 'Origin' to junior rugby opens up a can of worms and a lot of grey areas. I'd say there has to bean easily defined line drawn, e.g. first game after 17 years+ or something like that.

 

[wamberal]

OK fair play. However, from the research I did trying to link 'Origin' to junior rugby opens up a can of worms and a lot of grey areas. I'd say there has to bean easily defined line drawn, e.g. first game after 17 years+ or something like that.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter all that much. A little bit of controversy would be a good thing. Maybe the national selectors should be the arbiters (they can fiddle things a bit to make sure that there is as much equality as possible, without going over the top).

 

[Joe King]

I'm still tossing around variations of this idea:

Start the year with a revamped NRC with all the test players available. At the same time, NZ play their Mitre 10 Cup with all their test players available. Re-live their NPC glory days.

Then from the NRC, Australia picks 3 "state of origin" rep teams:

NSW
Qld
Best of Rest/All-sates/Barbarians

Likewise, NZ picks their 5 regional super teams:

Crusaders
Highlanders
Hurricanes
Blues
Cheifs

Our 3 join their 5 for an 8 team Trans-Tasman comp: simply play every other team once for a first past the post winner. This is promoted as a "state of origin" type series in Oz, and recaptures something of the best vs the best from the original S12 concept. It's short and sweet and leaves fans wanting more of its intensity. And that's the way it stays. And that's why it drives up revenue.

From there, the Wallabies and AB's are chosen for the test season: in-bounds, Bledisloe, TRC, Europe.

So the year builds to a crescendo. NZ and Oz work together. There's domestic competition satisfaction for both countries. A 'super' TT comp to raise revenue. And players move through a funnel towards the test team.

As an added bonus for the Sydney clubs, there's no NRC at the back end of their season. So they can have a national club comp or do whatever they want. Could also add value to an overall package for broadcasters.

 

[dru]

I'm still tossing around variations of this idea:

Start the year with a revamped NRC with all the test players available. At the same time, NZ play their Mitre 10 Cup with all their test players available. Re-live their NPC glory days.

Then from the NRC, Australia picks 3 "state of origin" rep teams:

NSW
Qld
Best of Rest/All-sates/Barbarians

Likewise, NZ picks their 5 regional super teams:

Crusaders
Highlanders
Hurricanes
Blues
Cheifs

Our 3 join their 5 for an 8 team Trans-Tasman comp: simply play every other team once for a first past the post winner. This is promoted as a "state of origin" type series in Oz, and recaptures something of the best vs the best from the original S12 concept. It's short and sweet and leaves fans wanting more of its intensity. And that's the way it stays. And that's why it drives up revenue.

From there, the Wallabies and AB's are chosen for the test season: in-bounds, Bledisloe, TRC, Europe.

So the year builds to a crescendo. NZ and Oz work together. There's domestic competition satisfaction for both countries. A 'super' TT comp to raise revenue. And players move through a funnel towards the test team.

As an added bonus for the Sydney clubs, there's no NRC at the back end of their season. So they can have a national club comp or do whatever they want. Could also add value to an overall package for broadcasters.

Completely on board with this. What a sensational result that would be.

 

[RedsHappy]

Completely on board with this. What a sensational result that would be.

The best thing McLennan’s said so far is that he’s prepared to seriously innovate the entire comp structure and change the ‘rules’ to make the Aust version of rugby more media/fan friendly. And he possesses a credible, personal track record of having done something similar with cricket here.

That drive, that radical thinking, the willingness for serious change in the as-played code here is what we’ve lacked for decades when we needed it. Instead we complacently every 5 years just kept trying to milk more $s from a dying, degrading comp model.

Hope springs eternal, and why not.

 

[VassMan]

I'm still tossing around variations of this idea:

Start the year with a revamped NRC with all the test players available. At the same time, NZ play their Mitre 10 Cup with all their test players available. Re-live their NPC glory days.

Then from the NRC, Australia picks 3 "state of origin" rep teams:

NSW
Qld
Best of Rest/All-sates/Barbarians

Likewise, NZ picks their 5 regional super teams:

Crusaders
Highlanders
Hurricanes
Blues
Cheifs

Our 3 join their 5 for an 8 team Trans-Tasman comp: simply play every other team once for a first past the post winner. This is promoted as a "state of origin" type series in Oz, and recaptures something of the best vs the best from the original S12 concept. It's short and sweet and leaves fans wanting more of its intensity. And that's the way it stays. And that's why it drives up revenue.

From there, the Wallabies and AB's are chosen for the test season: in-bounds, Bledisloe, TRC, Europe.

So the year builds to a crescendo. NZ and Oz work together. There's domestic competition satisfaction for both countries. A 'super' TT comp to raise revenue. And players move through a funnel towards the test team.

As an added bonus for the Sydney clubs, there's no NRC at the back end of their season. So they can have a national club comp or do whatever they want. Could also add value to an overall package for broadcasters.

Really like this idea, think it's the best floated so far. Could even keep the names of Reds and Tahs, while the barbarian team called the Brumbies. NRC would work if it had the best players in it and then allows the non test/super players to go back to club rugby for second half of season. NRC on channel 10 and really marketed, and then Super can stay on Fox. We can dream!

 

[formerflanker]

Not even official yet and debate roars about selection criteria for SOO teams.
Absolutely brilliant.

 

[kiap]

Completely on board with this. What a sensational result that would be.

Nearly everything about it is wrong.

Why? First, because you have 2 itinerant comps. Players have to up stumps and move all season.

7 weeks of so-called "state of origin" is whacked. Vassman correctly identifies the teams:

keep the names of Reds and Tahs, while the barbarian team called the Brumbies.

This has just reduced the Reds, Tahs and Brumbies to 3-and-a-half home games per year.

That's after token jersey swaps from the likes Canberra Vikings, Country Eagles and Brisbane City.

Why bother? Honestly, you are better off with just the actual Reds, Tahs and Brumbies playing a full season.

 

[Brumby Runner]

When the MDiddy proposal came out on the Roar I went off on a bit of a mission and went through every player on the 4 franchises rosters and traced their origins. I put 2 columns in, where they went to school, and where they played their first senior game. Anyway, I think it's academic now but it was an interesting exercise personally as I learnt a lot about all our players. If anyone wants the spreadsheet PM me and I'll send it to you.

Just for shits and giggles the Barbarians side would look something as below. For this exercise I've excluded any NSW/QLD '2nds Origin players', but some would probably come into consideration.

1. JP Smith - SAF/ACT
2. Jordan Uelese - Vic
3. Ruan Smith - SAF/ACT
4. Tom Staniforth - ACT
5. Ross Haylett-Petty - WA
6. Rob Valetini - Vic
7. Pete Samu - Vic
8. Isi Naisarani - Fiji/WA
9. Joe Powell - ACT
10. Noah Lolesio - ACT
11. Marika Koroibete - Fiji/Vic
12. Hunter Paisami - Vic
13. Henry Speight - Fiji/ACT
14. Filipo Dauganu - Fiji/Qld
15. Dane Haylett-Petty - WA

Good effort KOB. I'd consider Douglas in the second row in favour of either Staniforth or RHP, and Billy Meakes at 12 with a close call between Henry and Filipo on the wing. Paisami then to 13.

 

[Lindommer]

Tom Carter? Certainly, he was an archetype villain who was 'hated' by the fans of every opposition team, seemingly at all levels.

Even by some Tahs fans.

I turned up to Leichhardt Oval a coupla years ago for a preseason match, but at the wrong, locked, gate. Tom Carter pulled up in his ute and gave me a lift around to the other side.

Shoulda walked.

 

[Quick Hands]

This has just reduced the Reds, Tahs and Brumbies to 3-and-a-half home games per year.

Which is probably what they always should be - representative teams playing limited time.

Why bother? Honestly, you are better off with just the actual Reds, Tahs and Brumbies playing a full season.

There's only 3 of them so a full season isn't really very "full" at all.

 

[KOB1987]

Good effort KOB. I'd consider Douglas in the second row in favour of either Staniforth or RHP, and Billy Meakes at 12 with a close call between Henry and Filipo on the wing. Paisami then to 13.

Is Douglas, being Scottish, Wallaby eligible? That was the reason I left him out. And I noted that I intentionally left out NSW/Qld players, however I agree re Meakes, and English would also be a better fit for that back line. There’s a heap that aren’t in the NSW/Qld 1sts but could be on the bench, like those blokes, Harmichael, Foketi, Stewart, Campbell, etc, etc

 

[kiap]

Which is probably what they always should be - representative teams playing limited time.

There's only 3 of them so a full season isn't really very "full" at all.

LOL, good luck with retaining players in the North Harbour Rays.

It is too many tiers.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm still tossing around variations of this idea:

Start the year with a revamped NRC with all the test players available. At the same time, NZ play their Mitre 10 Cup with all their test players available. Re-live their NPC glory days.

Then from the NRC, Australia picks 3 "state of origin" rep teams:

NSW
Qld
Best of Rest/All-sates/Barbarians

Likewise, NZ picks their 5 regional super teams:

Crusaders
Highlanders
Hurricanes
Blues
Cheifs

Our 3 join their 5 for an 8 team Trans-Tasman comp: simply play every other team once for a first past the post winner. This is promoted as a "state of origin" type series in Oz, and recaptures something of the best vs the best from the original S12 concept. It's short and sweet and leaves fans wanting more of its intensity. And that's the way it stays. And that's why it drives up revenue.

From there, the Wallabies and AB's are chosen for the test season: in-bounds, Bledisloe, TRC, Europe.

So the year builds to a crescendo. NZ and Oz work together. There's domestic competition satisfaction for both countries. A 'super' TT comp to raise revenue. And players move through a funnel towards the test team.

As an added bonus for the Sydney clubs, there's no NRC at the back end of their season. So they can have a national club comp or do whatever they want. Could also add value to an overall package for broadcasters.

That's a left field but at the same time interesting idea. I would want it to be NSW, QLD, WA, ACT and VIC though.

 

[Rebels3]

When the MDiddy proposal came out on the Roar I went off on a bit of a mission and went through every player on the 4 franchises rosters and traced their origins. I put 2 columns in, where they went to school, and where they played their first senior game. Anyway, I think it's academic now but it was an interesting exercise personally as I learnt a lot about all our players. If anyone wants the spreadsheet PM me and I'll send it to you.

Just for shits and giggles the Barbarians side would look something as below. For this exercise I've excluded any NSW/QLD '2nds Origin players', but some would probably come into consideration.

1. JP Smith - SAF/ACT
2. Jordan Uelese - Vic
3. Ruan Smith - SAF/ACT
4. Tom Staniforth - ACT
5. Ross Haylett-Petty - WA
6. Rob Valetini - Vic
7. Pete Samu - Vic
8. Isi Naisarani - Fiji/WA
9. Joe Powell - ACT
10. Noah Lolesio - ACT
11. Marika Koroibete - Fiji/Vic
12. Hunter Paisami - Vic
13. Henry Speight - Fiji/ACT
14. Filipo Dauganu - Fiji/Qld
15. Dane Haylett-Petty - WA

Naisarani is a QLDer/Fijian
Lolesio is a QLDer
Could play Faulkner (Vic), Sa’aga (Vic), Ainsley (WA) and Longbottom (WA) as front row options instead of SA products
Tizzano (WA), Leota (Vic), Hardwick (WA)

I’d actually be keen to see a pregame WA v Vic if any SOO was mentioned. And the ACT players just qualify for NSW as happens in League.

1 Faulkner (Vic)
2 Uelese (Vic)
3 Ainsley (WA)
4 RHP (WA)
5 Staniforth (ACT)
6 Valetini (Vic)
7 Hardwick (WA)
8 Samu (Vic)
9 Powell (ACT)
10 CLL (Vic)* / Iona (Vic) no real options, maybe Rodney Iona from Vic)
11 Koroibete (Fiji/Vic)
12 Paisami (Vic)
13 Potter (Vic)
14 Speight (Fiji/ACT)
15 DHP (WA)

Wouldn’t be a bad team

 

[KOB1987]

Naisarani is a QLDer/Fijian
Lolesio is a QLDer
Could play Faulkner (Vic), Sa’aga (Vic), Ainsley (WA) and Longbottom (WA) as front row options instead of SA products
Tizzano (WA), Leota (Vic), Hardwick (WA)

I’d actually be keen to see a pregame WA v Vic if any SOO was mentioned. And the ACT players just qualify for NSW as happens in League.

Right you are re Lolesio, Naisarani would still be in the Baabaas team regardless, being a nationalized Fijian. I did originally have Ainsley and Faulkner as the props, you could link the Smith twins to Qld too, but I categorized them as nationalised Saffers. Tom Cusack is another ACT product. I didn’t look at the Force roster but yes re Longbottom.

 

[Rebels3]

Can we also note in the proposed all states sides, who’s contributing the majority of the talent despite been known as an area that produces not much compared to a certain area that apparently is producing plenty .

Btw that’s a joke for anyone about to throw daggers at me. Lol

 

[Rebels3]

That's a left field but at the same time interesting idea. I would want it to be NSW, QLD, WA, ACT and VIC though.

Agreed. Plus a baabaas team is destined for failure. It needs a home, I’d rather have a tough pill to take by not having a team than having some Frankenstein like mash up team without a home.

My other issue with having 3/2 teams and kiwis having 5. What happens if we hit a point where we become to good? Does that mean the kiwis have to reduce their sides then? We just need to accept that in sport there is always going to be winners and losers. Because of the way the comps are set up and the imbalance is going to be constantly swayed because resources are not truly shared (eg. Players) across all markets involved.

 

[mst]

I always find it really intriguing that when it comes to rugby discussion in Australia its mainly linear and structured. Nation, state, region, suburb, school. We always seem to really want to stick with the same lego pieces we have had for the last 20 years and see what"new" thing we can build with them.

Is this because in the southern hemisphere everything is structured with teh cinsiosn though of the national team? Yet the successful leagues in Europe are a real mixed bag of players for all over the place. Maybe there is something in it? The french crowds turn out in huge numbers to watch mixed nation teams. In the UK there are stacks of Aussies, Argentines, Kiwis and and Saffa's playing

is it possible we may need to be a little bit more creative in our thinking? I suspect after all these years if we stopped and looked at our lego blocks we might find that they are either a mix of green and gold, all black or Red, light [bunny rug] blue or an even mix of dark blue, yellow and white. All manufactured back in the 80's.