Where to for Super Rugby?

[hoggy]

So the Pro14 are looking at going to a 16-18 team competition, with participants split over 5 countries. Also considering a conference model to limit travel required.

What could possibly go wrong?

They should rename it SuperPro 18

 

[KOB1987]

So the Pro14 are looking at going to a 16-18 team competition, with participants split over 5 countries. Also considering a conference model to limit travel required.

What could possibly go wrong?

I think I’ve seen that format somewhere before?

 

[Dan54]

^ this isn't just newspaper talk, it's confirmation of things that have been in the works for some time now. Biggest question for me is "who's the 18th Pro18 team?"

No not just paper talk maybe in SA, but seems papers up north saying it not done deal yet. Who knows, I suspect it in the works but maybe still a little to be finalised. I was more thinking of paper talk on Rassie's comments on Aus/Arg.

 

[kiap]

^ this isn't just newspaper talk, it's confirmation of things that have been in the works for some time now. Biggest question for me is "who's the 18th Pro18 team?"

It could be the Argies, but with the Hag-warez based out of Spain.

It might seem I've pulled that out of nowhere but it has been floated. Still, idea and reality are different things. They'd need to find some euros.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ actually looks like Pro16 next year, Pro18 from 2022 at earliest on reading more recent media reports, only the initial sport24 one implies Pro18 from 2021.

 

[Dctarget]

Leinster might have some challengers, will be very interested to see how they go against the original SA teams. One team has all the money in the world and the others have all the natural talent (before it's poached).

 

[kiap]

Cheetahs apparently "negotiated" a place in the (australasian) Super 8. <edit> apologies, already posted.

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/pro14/breaking-cheetahs-officially-booted-from-pro-rugby-20200929

Could be a pipe dream. Will the S8 cup exist?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Cheetahs apparently "negotiated" a place in the (australasian) Super 8. <edit> apologies, already posted.

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/pro14/breaking-cheetahs-officially-booted-from-pro-rugby-20200929

Could be a pipe dream. Will the S8 cup exist?

Super 8 concept was champions league concept - not including a South Africa Currie cup side

 

[kiap]

Super 8 concept was champions league concept - not including a South Africa Currie cup side

Indeed.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Interesting article on rugby.com au site from Hamish interview

Couple of things to note:

- saying nzr relations still at lowest ebb. Ok kiwis can disagree with this but I seriously do feel like many nzr have behaved badly, arrogantly and really done major damage to oz-australia relationships that may take a long time to repair. I don’t even know if nzr are even really interested in repairing either as behaving like petulant brats imho and someone in that organisation behind the recent shoot from the hip behaviour needs to go. And to claim this is parochial view would be a diservice to when I in the past have heavily criticised RA for their behaviour, incompetence etc, but recently the dunce cap imho has been handed over to nzr. This constant blame and negative behaviour by nzr towards RA is tiresome, childish and downright unprofessional and needs to stop.

- on another matter the comment by Hamish of if we can ‘afford’ 5 teams in trans tasman competition did not go un noticed which was a concern ie rugby in Australia is broke and financial salvation may not be forthcoming!

 

[Dan54]

Interesting article on rugby.com au site from Hamish interview

Couple of things to note:

- saying nzr relations still at lowest ebb. Ok kiwis can disagree with this but I seriously do feel like many nzr have behaved badly, arrogantly and really done major damage to oz-australia relationships that may take a long time to repair. I don’t even know if nzr are even really interested in repairing either as behaving like petulant brats imho and someone in that organisation behind the recent shoot from the hip behaviour needs to go. And to claim this is parochial view would be a diservice to when I in the past have heavily criticised RA for their behaviour, incompetence etc, but recently the dunce cap imho has been handed over to nzr. This constant blame and negative behaviour by nzr towards RA is tiresome, childish and downright unprofessional and needs to stop.

- on another matter the comment by Hamish of if we can ‘afford’ 5 teams in trans tasman competition did not go un noticed which was a concern ie rugby in Australia is broke and financial salvation may not be forthcoming!

Yep watched the interview, was very good, and I said that about Hamish first time I saw him on Breakdown. I agree the NZR has stuffed up, but not sure where all the blame by them has been pointed at RA. Anyway he was good and I believe he has some good points.

I also noted the "if we can afford" 5 teams comment, which is certainly very very different to his there will be 5 Aus teams or none from earlier in year, so suspect that there is noone too innocent on what is going on with what is being said in paper.
I haven't seen the financials of RA so I don't know, but you would hope they don't over reach again, I have said repeatedly we can't afford another 'cut the Force fiasco' because we can't afford 5 teams.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Many of us like me Dan have said we recognise the need for private equity investment at this point to afford 5 teams - recognising would need marquees etc short term to bolster quality of squads whilst investments made in grass roots all of which come with price tag currently only Force can afford. I think many like me also realise private equity investment in short term looking less likely. I would love to be wrong on the latter but my head telling me otherwise.

But really like all of us just a mushroom that is clueless as what is going on behind closed doors

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

AT least we have an end to the whole "will SA leave" soap opera and all parties can move on. It just confirms for me that we in OZ should have our domestic comp and play a champions league style format with the Kiwis. If we can get some Japan/PI involvement that would be all for the better, but it shouldn't hold us up from moving forward.

 

[hoggy]

Yep watched the interview, was very good, and I said that about Hamish first time I saw him on Breakdown. I agree the NZR has stuffed up, but not sure where all the blame by them has been pointed at RA. Anyway he was good and I believe he has some good points.

I also noted the "if we can afford" 5 teams comment, which is certainly very very different to his there will be 5 Aus teams or none from earlier in year, so suspect that there is noone too innocent on what is going on with what is being said in paper.
I haven't seen the financials of RA so I don't know, but you would hope they don't over reach again, I have said repeatedly we can't afford another 'cut the Force fiasco' because we can't afford 5 teams.

Bit of a catch 22 then really, so if you don't over reach then you end up with a "Force Fiasco" before you even start.

The game here is paying for 20yrs of top down elitist, take over the world and get some one else to pay for our rugby thinking.

 

[Adam84]

Even SARU are having a crack at the kiwis, apparently NZRU didn’t think it was relevant to inform them they didn’t include them in future Super Rugby plans, just cut them out and let them find out through press release.

Pretty poor handling of long term partnerships.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Ok my prediction at this point is reading on all things and Covid etc is:

For 2021:
We have 6 team super rugby nz competition (going to assume they get Pacifica team up and running)

We have 5 team super rugby au competition (just can’t see Sunwolves or any other pro side added).

We have top 2 sides of each play off in a bubble

Implication is we have reduced squad sizes and loss of middle tier players because of reduced money on assumption get a broadcast deal but for much less money.

My assumption is someone also plays for state of union concept but for small change that does not change the above.

2022

Above sides join up for trans Tasman competition with one other whether Asia pacific dragons or bay of plenty with Chinese partnership. More likely later imo.

Broadcast deal better and private equity potentially on the table. If not on the table I reckon we end up losing a side (sadly).

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Even SARU are having a crack at the kiwis, apparently NZRU didn’t think it was relevant to inform them they didn’t include them in future Super Rugby plans, just cut them out and let them find out through press release.

Pretty poor handling of long term partnerships.

SARU have been threatening to take their ball oop north for how many years now? And weren't ARU all set to pull the trigger on SARU in 2010 but NZRU left them hanging?

 

[dru]

SARU have been threatening to take their ball oop north for how many years now? And weren't ARU all set to pull the trigger on SARU in 2010 but NZRU left them hanging?

Yes NZRU left SARU hanging. And not only them. SANZAR competition management has seen all the major players behaving like self serving narsacistic dickheads at various times - RA and SARU included. Right now though? It is all NZRU.

Not friends you can trust.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Let’s face it - if you have choice - you would rather deal with anyone else than nzru - SARU are lucky they are Timezone wise able to escape to Europe and more competent bigger players. Sadly biggest player wise we are left with NZRU to deal with. Time to bolster RA capabilities (twiggy anyone!) and go it alone if we can then be held to NZRU recent BS who have proven to be unprofessional in their partner dealings, arrogant and out of touch with their own self importance vs what the rest of the world thinks of NZRU (petty) geopolitics

NZRU are most definitely not an organisation to be trusted or respected in world rugby circles at this point and are becoming increasingly viewed with disdain in terms of their petulance and arrogance by the world rugby community. If this was RA the media would be at the door baying for heads to roll and definitely some accountability for the recent rolling PR disasters NZRU continues to perpetuate. Needs to see some heads roll but sadly I think they are still in a bubble not realising how much damage PR wise has been done to the nzru brand and broader nz rugby brand in world rugby circles.

 

[mst]

Many of us like me Dan have said we recognise the need for private equity investment at this point to afford 5 teams - recognising would need marquees etc short term to bolster quality of squads whilst investments made in grass roots all of which come with price tag currently only Force can afford. I think many like me also realise private equity investment in short term looking less likely. I would love to be wrong on the latter but my head telling me otherwise.

But really like all of us just a mushroom that is clueless as what is going on behind closed doors

Private equity is fine - but you need stable product that not the child of the NZRU or RA for investors to look at it seriously. Would you get in bed or make a deal with NZRU or RA atm? It also needs to one step removed so it's not a national player development comp.

TBH, I think the need for marquee may be a bit of old school thinking. Wages are down, decent players are plentiful, the marquess we have had did nothing to draw crowds and we have seen it done nothing for the A League nor NRL. What's the point?

Aussie rugby supporters need to be taken on a new journey to grow with their teams and players.