Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

Thinking through our distrust of NZRU - the generic thinking of a post domestic comp “Super” champions league as a TT should be jettisoned.

The same suggestion should be proposed to Japan. NZ is a distraction below international level.

 

[hoggy]

Let’s face it - if you have choice - you would rather deal with anyone else than nzru - SARU are lucky they are Timezone wise able to escape to Europe and more competent bigger players. Sadly biggest player wise we are left with NZRU to deal with. Time to bolster RA capabilities (twiggy anyone!) and go it alone if we can then be held to NZRU recent BS who have proven to be unprofessional in their partner dealings, arrogant and out of touch with their own self importance vs what the rest of the world thinks of NZRU (petty) geopolitics

NZRU are most definitely not an organisation to be trusted or respected in world rugby circles at this point and are becoming increasingly viewed with disdain in terms of their petulance and arrogance by the world rugby community. If this was RA the media would be at the door baying for heads to roll and definitely some accountability for the recent rolling PR disasters NZRU continues to perpetuate. Needs to see some heads roll but sadly I think they are still in a bubble not realising how much damage PR wise has been done to the nzru brand and broader nz rugby brand in world rugby circles.

FFS surely its about time we go our own separate ways and meet for Test rugby, why all this talk of jumping into a TT in 2022 with the NZRU an organisation simply not to be trusted. A domestic competition will be what it is, stop doing deals with people that smile at you as they stick a knife in your back.

 

[mst]

It is intriguing to and consider that here we are on page 936, with what we all wanted and knew needed to happen; the death of Super Rugby.

But, still, perversely, and almost like we are scared to leave the cult, or stray from the institutionalised thinking, the conversation is still all about overseas partners and how to start up another or replacement Super Rugby type concept.

Rinse and repeat? Insanity?

 

[dru]

Rinse and repeat?

I don’t think that is offer by anyone. But to your thrust - it is most definitely time to move on.

Rinse and flush.

 

[Ulrich]

We may be forced to play CC among ourselves if we're not accepted into the Pro comp. I wouldn't mind that to be honest.

Wonder what competition Aus, NZ and Arg will play in. Feel really sorry for Argentina in all of this.

 

[Ignoto]

Wonder what competition Aus, NZ and Arg will play in. Feel really sorry for Argentina in all of this.

Hard to feel sorry for Argentina when Agustin Pichot was trying to shove down our throats a 'World Cup Lite' every bloody year.

 

[qwerty51]

Hard to feel sorry for Argentina when Agustin Pichot was trying to shove down our throats a 'World Cup Lite' every bloody year.

yeah what a dickhead trying to extract more revenue out of the game

 

[half]

My belief is RA does not have either the liquid reserves nor the intellectual smarts to get out of the hole they find themselves in.

I have for many years preached private equity models, are our solution as the owners should bring both the capital and intellect to move forward. Further I have said the US sports models are IMO the best fit for our position.

However, this does not in and of itself mean you don't need a governing body to establish rules and standards that private equity needs to work within.

Obviously, we don’t want new clubs going broke and or over extending themselves.

European football / soccer, has a somewhat chequered past, so not that long ago the European soccer governing body set up a set of rules called “Financial Fair Play”.

I read quite a lot of academic research articles and papers and one that I read last week dealt with a model the authors developed that predicts which clubs will get into financial distress.
They verified it against the history of club failures in different leagues and the model showed a 90% success rate. In part of their conclusion the authors, 2 Spanish academics from the University of Malaga, stated:-

"The model developed in this study has shown that low liquidity, high leverage, poor sports performance and small size of the club market are the best predictors of the distress of football clubs." These points do not read good for Super Rugby.

It’s a great read if you’re into this sorta thing. However, for RA it does show the need in any established new private equity league the need for financial management rules.


Its long and quite academic and some scary maths formulas but those interested should enjoy.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0225989

 

[Dan54]

Let’s face it - if you have choice - you would rather deal with anyone else than nzru - SARU are lucky they are Timezone wise able to escape to Europe and more competent bigger players. Sadly biggest player wise we are left with NZRU to deal with. Time to bolster RA capabilities (twiggy anyone!) and go it alone if we can then be held to NZRU recent BS who have proven to be unprofessional in their partner dealings, arrogant and out of touch with their own self importance vs what the rest of the world thinks of NZRU (petty) geopolitics

NZRU are most definitely not an organisation to be trusted or respected in world rugby circles at this point and are becoming increasingly viewed with disdain in terms of their petulance and arrogance by the world rugby community. If this was RA the media would be at the door baying for heads to roll and definitely some accountability for the recent rolling PR disasters NZRU continues to perpetuate. Needs to see some heads roll but sadly I think they are still in a bubble not realising how much damage PR wise has been done to the nzru brand and broader nz rugby brand in world rugby circles.

Seems not only NZR are perhaps not being up straight, according to Mark Robinson him and Impey were having great friendly chats with both McLennan and Clarke on link ups in lat few weeks
"With regards to Australia, [NZR chair] Brent [Impey] and I were on a phone call with Hamish and [RA chief executive] Rob [Clarke] as recently as 10 or 12 days ago where they were inviting us to be hosted and to come and stay with them and enjoy hospitality. I think it's a bit of bluster, to be honest," Robinson said.

I not sure about you fellas, but I don't invite anyone to saty with me I not getting on with or if I don't trust them. I do think and have said that because of where RA was seen that Hamish and Clarke are maybe showing to all Australian that they are not pushovers etc , and perhaps behind closed doors things are a little different.
IE: Hamish now saying Australia will have 5 teams IF they can afford them, slightly different narrative that has been said up to now? By the way I agree with what he doing, nothing like being seen to be standing up to people to get supporters etc behind you, and Hamish doesn't and shouldn't care what Kiwis think of him, anymore than Robinson and crew should care what Aussies think of them, they have to look after their own backyards.

 

[Dan54]

Hard to feel sorry for Argentina when Agustin Pichot was trying to shove down our throats a 'World Cup Lite' every bloody year.

Yep but you can hardly blame all of Argentina rugby because one person had an idea when ho on WR (World Rugby) board surely.

 

[Dan54]

Yes NZRU left SARU hanging. And not only them. SANZAR competition management has seen all the major players behaving like self serving narsacistic dickheads at various times - RA and SARU included. Right now though? It is all NZRU.

Not friends you can trust.

I must of missed where RA's numerous competitions they have come up with included SA dru, I know we have had Big Bash style comp with just Aus teams, TT comp, Aus comp with Sunwolves and Drua all mentioned or supposedly so by RA, yet none of these include SA do they? But by all means point out where RA have wanted a comp including SA and I will apologise unreservedly.
And surely RA and SARU could just carry on the Super comp without NZ if that is what they want?

 

[Wilson]

Seems not only NZR are perhaps not being up straight, according to Mark Robinson him and Impey were having great friendly chats with both McLennan and Clarke on link ups in lat few weeks
"With regards to Australia, [NZR chair] Brent [Impey] and I were on a phone call with Hamish and [RA chief executive] Rob [Clarke] as recently as 10 or 12 days ago where they were inviting us to be hosted and to come and stay with them and enjoy hospitality. I think it's a bit of bluster, to be honest," Robinson said.

In what way is this McLennan and Clarke not being straight? McLennan said relations were at their lowest ebb AND that he would try his hardest to fix it. This seems like a pretty good way to reset the relationship and get it heading in the right direction.

 

[The Honey Badger]

FFS surely its about time we go our own separate ways and meet for Test rugby, why all this talk of jumping into a TT in 2022 with the NZRU an organisation simply not to be trusted. A domestic competition will be what it is, stop doing deals with people that smile at you as they stick a knife in your back.

I agree, but we need more than 5 teams.

A semi Pro club comp or a semi pro NRC is where we need to be

 

[Rebels3]

Seems not only NZR are perhaps not being up straight, according to Mark Robinson him and Impey were having great friendly chats with both McLennan and Clarke on link ups in lat few weeks
"With regards to Australia, [NZR chair] Brent [Impey] and I were on a phone call with Hamish and [RA chief executive] Rob [Clarke] as recently as 10 or 12 days ago where they were inviting us to be hosted and to come and stay with them and enjoy hospitality. I think it's a bit of bluster, to be honest," Robinson said.

I not sure about you fellas, but I don't invite anyone to saty with me I not getting on with or if I don't trust them. I do think and have said that because of where RA was seen that Hamish and Clarke are maybe showing to all Australian that they are not pushovers etc , and perhaps behind closed doors things are a little different.
IE: Hamish now saying Australia will have 5 teams IF they can afford them, slightly different narrative that has been said up to now? By the way I agree with what he doing, nothing like being seen to be standing up to people to get supporters etc behind you, and Hamish doesn't and shouldn't care what Kiwis think of him, anymore than Robinson and crew should care what Aussies think of them, they have to look after their own backyards.

Surely there comes a time where you just have to put your hand up and say they f&@!ed up. Of course they would invite them over, they are partners after all. It’s like inviting a partner to the Xmas drinks that you know has been looking at getting out of their t’s & c’s with your firm, because they are still partners, it’s the civil thing to do. It’s how business works.

I’m adamant someone from NZ would be involved in a murder with all evidence clear to the contrary and you’d still find a way to say it’s all paper talk or it was probably in self defense or he was set up.

Johnnie Cochran would be proud

 

[Rebels3]

I must of missed where RA's numerous competitions they have come up with included SA dru, I know we have had Big Bash style comp with just Aus teams, TT comp, Aus comp with Sunwolves and Drua all mentioned or supposedly so by RA, yet none of these include SA do they? But by all means point out where RA have wanted a comp including SA and I will apologise unreservedly.
And surely RA and SARU could just carry on the Super comp without NZ if that is what they want?

If the glove don’t fit, you can’t acquit

 

[Dan54]

In what way is this McLennan and Clarke not being straight? McLennan said relations were at their lowest ebb AND that he would try his hardest to fix it. This seems like a pretty good way to reset the relationship and get it heading in the right direction.

Ok, that perhaps shows difference between you and I Wilson, if I having a problem with someone and don't trust him, I like to be honest enough not to invite him to stay with me, but I live by my standards and perhaps you have different ones to me.
And what did you think of Hamish's other comment, that RA would have 5 teams IF they could afford them? Is that not somewhat different to rest of what we have heard all year? See I just pointing out that a lot of things can be said one way or other depending on your audience. And I repeat I agree with how Hamish is doing he from a public relations background and certainly know how to get the support on his side where he need it.

 

[Dan54]

Surely there comes a time where you just have to put your hand up and say they f&@!ed up. Of course they would invite them over, they are partners after all. It’s like inviting a partner to the Xmas drinks that you know has been looking at getting out of their t’s & c’s with your firm, because they are still partners, it’s the civil thing to do. It’s how business works.

I’m adamant someone from NZ would be involved in a murder with all evidence clear to the contrary and you’d still find a way to say it’s all paper talk or it was probably in self defense or he was set up.

Johnnie Cochran would be proud

No I not saying NZR are innocent, mate they stuffed up, but just saying if I said to everyone I had a big problem with someone I wouldn't invite him to STAY with me, I would have a talk to try and sort it out, but I only invite people to stay with me that I trust. Hey but you live your life as you want, I try to be straight.

 

[Derpus]

I have to say that this whole debacle is starting to look a bit like the US election. Fucken nonsense on all sides and you know whatever the outcome it's going to be a 'bad deal' for all involved.

I love rugby but i'm well and truly over almost everything to do with the professional side of it.

 

[dru]

I must of missed where RA's numerous competitions they have come up with included SA dru, I know we have had Big Bash style comp with just Aus teams, TT comp, Aus comp with Sunwolves and Drua all mentioned or supposedly so by RA, yet none of these include SA do they? But by all means point out where RA have wanted a comp including SA and I will apologise unreservedly.
And surely RA and SARU could just carry on the Super comp without NZ if that is what they want?

RA were openly stating they were conferring with all stakeholders, something NZR have not. But it doesn't matter whether or not you accept it - read the SARU presser. RA is not on their "disappointed list" but NZR sure as hell are.

 

[Joe King]

The fact that Hamish said on the Breakdown that it's all water under the bridge with what NZR have done, and that he is going to do everything he can to repair relations, and then we hear reports that he has been reaching out to NZR with friendly hospitality makes me think he's a breath of fresh air for Australian rugby. Seems pretty genuine to me.

But Aussie fans shouldn't be too quick to start throwing stones at NZR. Our organisation has got a lot wrong in the past as well. I hope we can all model the respect Hamish is calling for. I know I've not done well in this area at times, but perhaps it's never too late for a fresh start.