How long will Quade get?

[Worldcupnut]

It's hard to enjoy Super Rugby as an Aussie fan. How can it be justified that we don't have a single referee in the comp? ( Yeah - I don't count Walsh )
I haven't watched any games since Digby's suspension but one of the early games had this classic head high............

! ( Incident is about 30secs in )

Hobbs is the culprit, referee Chris Pollock. What happens? A penalty. That's it. No Yellow, no citing, no suspension. SANZAR is a joke. The comp is a joke. I would love to follow it but it's impossible. I can't believe diehard Aussie fans just sit there and take it. I've voted with my feet and it'd be good to see a few more taking that option.

 

[Cutter]

A lot of whining going on here. If Foley had been suspended and Cooper got off, would we have made it to 13 pages?

Also, and in the interests of trumping the Carter/Byrnes thread...

Compare the level of whining for each of:

1. Cooper's non-malicious but careless tackle on Barnes which received a one week suspension.

2. Higginbotham's non-malicious but careless action which lead to, virtually, a year on the sidelines for Mitchell (and which received no suspension).

 

[Schadenfreude]

I know, I just get annoyed at the consistent talk of banjos, inbred, backwards etc in regards to queenslanders.

I once replied in kind with a derogatory and stereotypical sydneysider comment and was slapped down by the mods.

I got threatened with a ban for saying "look at the scoreboard".

Actually I was banned for 2 weeks for something equally benign.

 

[TOCC]

A lot of whining going on here. If Foley had been suspended and Cooper got off, would we have made it to 13 pages?

Also, and in the interests of trumping the Carter/Byrnes thread.

Compare the level of whining for each of:

1. Cooper's non-malicious but careless tackle on Barnes which received a one week suspension.

2. Higginbotham's non-malicious but careless action which lead to, virtually, a year on the sidelines for Mitchell (and which received no suspension).

ugh and here we go again...

its over 12 months ago people... let it go already

 

[Scotty]

I got threatened with a ban for saying "look at the scoreboard".

Actually I was banned for 2 weeks for something equally benign.

Ironic in a thread where we are discussing inconsistencies in judiciary processes!

 

[Richo]

ugh and here we go again.

its over 12 months ago people. let it go already

As I recall, we weren't allowed to talk about it 12 months ago, either.

Anyway, I think Reds fans have no right to be angry that Cooper was suspended, but they sure do have a legitimate gripe that Elstadt was not.

Why SANZAR can't fix the citing system is beyond comprehension.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Is the system designed to rank all the infringements of the weekend from most dangerous to least, drawing a line somewhere and suspending everyone over the line? Or is it our best attempt at enforcing a set of vaguely defined human created rules on a case to case basis, using reasonable humans with common sense who work in the best interests/and in the spirit of the game?

Reading this thread you'd think it was the former.

At the end of the day players have a good idea of what constitutes a safe tackle, and what sort of tackle will potentially get them suspended. There is definitely room for more precision and consistency, but is it really the end of the world as people are making out? (ie: "the system is a joke, there is no consistency, super rugby isn't worth watching anymore", ect...) I don't think so.

If people feel so strongly about the flaws of the system, get more involved with your local union and refereeing. If you still have concerns with the system then bring them up with the relevant people. If your ideas are practical hopefully they are adopted by the union and practiced in all senior grades that have video. If successful, I'm sure the ARU and IRB will take a look at your idea and hopefully trial it.

The good thing about rugby (like soccer) is that it's the same game from 6th grade to test level, so that's why you'd need to start from the grassroots.

 

[kiap]

If people feel so strongly about the flaws of the system, get more involved with your local union and refereeing. If you still have concerns with the system then bring them up with the relevant people. If your ideas are practical hopefully they are adopted by the union and practiced in all senior grades that have video. If successful, I'm sure the ARU and IRB will take a look at your idea and hopefully trial it.

I'm sure this is a load of old cobblers.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

What, you think the entire citing system of our game should be overhauled without some effort and trial? Or that someone has attempted this and been stopped along the way?

 

[Athilnaur]

And will you be asking the posters who dragged in SA conspiracies and jokes that the hit didn't matter because it was only Barnes to retract their comments as well?.

The SA conspiracy part is bullshit. What I said was Elstadt did a dangerous tackle and the SA ref gave only a penalty, no yellow, no white. And I posted a youtube of said glaring tackle. Still no citation either.

It isn't a conspiracy accusation, its an ac cusatiin the ref was either incompetent orf afraid of being lynched later.

 

[Athilnaur]

And will you be asking the posters who dragged in SA conspiracies and jokes that the hit didn't matter because it was only Barnes to retract their comments as well?

No one was accused of conspiracy. Incompetence, chickenshit yes. Still no citation for Elstadt, bloody appalling.

What do the damn citation commission do, get drunk?

 

[kiap]

What, you think the entire citing system of our game should be overhauled without some effort and trial? Or that someone has attempted this and been stopped along the way?

The issue is citing consistency across the SANZAR competition. The ball is in their court, and not amateur rugby. SANZAR initiated and introduced the trial of white cards within Super Rugby, video conferencing of their hearings, and allowed shorter bans for a guilty plea. Also the present drive within the IRB for extensions and refinements of the TMO's role. These are SANZAR-level issues. There is no application here to park rugby.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

What has this got to do with my post at all? I'm just telling people who are so passionate about this how they can overhaul the entire system (if it's as inconsistent as they claim). If you think there is an alternate path, we'd love to hear it.

I'm all for improving SANZAR's current system to strive for maximal clarity. But that's not what the majority of posters seem to be arguing for, apparently the entire system is terribly inconstant and beyond all help. We wont get anywhere if this is the attitude you start off with. (we also need to start out with realistic expectations)

 

[kiap]

What has this got to do with my post at all?

Your guff about needing to start at the grassroots because 6th grade is the same game as test level is a romantic dream.

I'm just telling people who are so passionate about this how they can overhaul the entire system (if it's as inconsistent as they claim)

I'm telling you that you're talking rubbish.

apparently the entire system is terribly inconstant

In Super Rugby, it plainly is.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Moving the goalposts? nice.

So we are going to dramatically change the citing system, and start at super rugby, then work our way down? Sounds good, let's hear how it will be done.

But like I said earlier, the current system is reasonable and picks up on dangerous tackling techniques. People start with the assumption that we should list all the infringements of the week, then list them all from most dangerous to least dangerous, and then draw a line in the sand, suspending everyone above it. But this simply isn't possible with our particularly vague laws.

I'm interested in improving the system, but bias-ly reviewing the current system and having completely unrealistic expectations is a bad start that wont get us anywhere. People can whinge all they want and it wont change a thing. Let's hear some realistic ideas if the current system is so terrible. Or lets look at some realistic improvements that should hopefully be applicable to all forms of rugby.

 

[Groucho]

I know, I just get annoyed at the consistent talk of banjos, inbred, backwards etc in regards to queenslanders.

I once replied in kind with a derogatory and stereotypical sydneysider comment and was slapped down by the mods.

I actually live on the border of Qld and NSW and I can confirm that all the banjos are to be found in Qld. But that's only because the music clubs are in Coolie not Tweed Heads.

 

[kiap]

People start with the assumption that we should list all the infringements of the week and list them from most dangerous to least dangerous, and draw a line in the sand, suspending everyone above it.

You've just made this up.

It's nonsense.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Just look at the entire thread. "This tackle was high and didn't get a suspension" "so was this tackle" "so was this tackle". The posters doing this don't recommend whether all of them warrant suspensions, or none of them. They are just doing exactly as I paraphrased, listing all the infringements and wanting to draw a line somewhere. But it just wont work.

Anyway, for what it's worth I think SANZAR unions should set out to improve the current foul play - and suspension guidelines. What the IRB has done with spear tackles over the last few years seems to have cut down on the practice, and now all players know what constitutes a spear tackle (and that it will be red carded). Once this is done, a simplified, easy to understand document should be sent out to all clubs in the region. They shouldn't have to weave through boring legal documents and IRB memo's to find this information. At the moment I think part of the problem seems to be lack of accessible information for all.

Oh well, have fun on this whingefest. I thought the forum could strive a bit higher than that, but I suppose this is an emotion filled topic.

 

[kiap]

Anyway, for what it's worth I think SANZAR unions should set out to improve the current foul play - and suspension guidelines.

Okay. They should do this.

 

[TOCC]

But like I said earlier, the current system is reasonable and picks up on dangerous tackling techniques.

there is quite a bit of evidence that their is plenty of 'malicious acts' missed by the referees on the ground and go unpunished afterwards.