VRU 2012

[en_force_er]

Also, an expected but well earned win for Skevies in the VSRU final.

I wasn't there but I hear Grammar had a kick to tie it up on full time but rushed because they thought they'd get a kick off. Shame.

 

[pablo]

Went to the Footscray/Quins game.

Quins got a last gasp try, trailing the whole game.

Footscray 11 defeated by Quins 14

House pushed Melbourne all the way as well, tough game and probably deserved the win, had a chance to win it at the death.

 

[elementfreak]

Also, an expected but well earned win for Skevies in the VSRU final.

I wasn't there but I hear Grammar had a kick to tie it up on full time but rushed because they thought they'd get a kick off. Shame.

Nope. They would've still been behind by 1 although their kicker missed a kick just to the right of the posts by a matter of inches.

 

[elementfreak]

House pushed Melbourne all the way as well, tough game and probably deserved the win, had a chance to win it at the death.

Apparently Box Hill pushed them the week before as well, looks like they are beatable and coming into the finals that could be an issue.

 

[elementfreak]

1st Melbourne  17 17 650 231 14 82 281.39
2nd Moorabbin 17 11 6 465 319 12 56 145.77
3rd Harlequin 17 10 1 5 545 363 13 55 150.14
4th Footscray 17 11 6 425 299 10 53 142.14
5th Sth Districts 17 10 1 6 397 366 10 52 108.47
6th Power House 17 7 10 381 387 11 39 98.45
7th Box Hill 17 7 10 338 391 6 34 86.445
8th Endeavour Hills 17 5 12 322 503 7 27 64.016
9th Boroondara 17 4 13 261 587 5 21 44.463
10th Melbourne Uni 17 2 15 264 597 6 14 44.221

Footscray (4) v Box Hill (7)
Sth Districts (5) v Melbourne (1)
Moorabbin (2) v Boroondara (9)
Pwr House (6) v Harlequin (3)
Melb Uni (10) v End Hills (8)

Fight for 2nd
- Moorabbin need a point to sew up 2nd place
- Quins need to win with a 4t BP and for Moorabbin to lose without a BP to take 2nd place.
- Footscray need to win with both Moorabbin and Quins not getting any points to get 2nd place


Fight for the finals
- Boxx Hill need to win with a 4T BP, and win by at least 40 points with House losing by 10 to make the finals.

 

[en_force_er]

Fight for the finals
- Boxx Hill need to win with a 4T BP, and win by at least 40 points with House losing by 10 to make the finals.

The gap between BHill and PHouse is huge and I'm surprised the ladder barely reflects this.

In another point, has it been put into concrete that the bottom 2 of Prems are getting demoted? Off their accumulated club points or off 1st grade standings? Club points seems fairer.

 

[dougdew99]

Looks like St Kevins has been in every Grand Final since 1995... that is an astonishing record...

 

[elementfreak]

The gap between BHill and PHouse is huge and I'm surprised the ladder barely reflects this.

In another point, has it been put into concrete that the bottom 2 of Prems are getting demoted? Off their accumulated club points or off 1st grade standings? Club points seems fairer.

If it were club points then it would be Boroondara and Endeavour Hills, although Endeavour Hills would be harsh as they at least have a fully functional juniors program.

 

[en_force_er]

If it were club points then it would be Boroondara and Endeavour Hills, although Endeavour Hills would be harsh as they at least have a fully functional juniors program.

Uni could be equally aggrieved, their Colts program keeps 20-30 schoolboys playing rugby every year.

Looks like St Kevins has been in every Grand Final since 1995. that is an astonishing record.

It is, first they had a superior system top to bottom (better coaches, progression, playing numbers, etc), then a couple of schools improved so they added a couple of scholarships, then a few other schools got better and got some scholarships so they added plenty more scholarships. It's an arms race that their recruitment policies allow them to win.

Admittedly, if Hailebury committed to rugby or Caulfield Grammar played the game they'd blow anyone off the park.

 

[elementfreak]

Uni could be equally aggrieved, their Colts program keeps 20-30 schoolboys playing rugby every year.

Agreed although there isn't enough teams for a "premier colts" grade so why not just put all the colts teams together in a comp and have some from div 2 and premier grade in there?


Div 2a games this weekend:
Melbourne (5) v Melton (6)
Northern (1) v Geelong (2)
Eltham (4) v Wyndham City (3)

Northern    14    8    0    6    402    250    0    0    10    4    0    46    160.80%
Geelong    14    10    0    4    326    233    0    0    3    1    0    44    139.91%
Wyndham City    14    8    0    4    343    252    1    1    5    1    0    41    136.11%
Eltham    14    7    2    5    317    293    0    0    6    3    0    41    108.19%
Melbourne    14    5    1    7    312    251    0    1    4    2    0    33    124.30%
Melton    14    0    1    12    114    535    1    0    1    0    0    1    21.31%

Geelong will either finish top or 3rd.
Eltham and Wyndham can finish 2nd if Geelong lose.
The worst Northern can do is finish 3rd, although I don't see either Wyndham or Eltham racking up a lot of points.

 

[en_force_er]

Agreed although there isn't enough teams for a "premier colts" grade so why not just put all the colts teams together in a comp and have some from div 2 and premier grade in there?

Sorry could you rephrase that?

Since Colts got serious there are less Colts sides but they're all quality teams. Don't know what's better, 8-10 teams with 3 of them playing seriously or 6 serious teams.

 

[elementfreak]

Ok if we take the preface that 9 and 10 will get relegated this year the divisions will look like this:

Premier:
Melbourne
Quins
Footscray
Moorabbin
Souths
Power House
Box Hill
Endeavour Hills


Division 2:
Boroondara
Melbourne Uni
Northern
Eltham
Geelong
Wyndham
Melbourne (5ths team)
Melton

The ones in bold have colts teams this year. That's only 5 teams. I was suggesting instead of having "premier colts" and a "div 2 colts" comps we just put them all in the same comp. Hopefully Eltham will have a colts team next year with their 18s looking good, same with Northern and Wyndham at a push. Then we have 8 sides in the colts comp.

 

[en_force_er]

The ones in bold have colts teams this year. That's only 5 teams. I was suggesting instead of having "premier colts" and a "div 2 colts" comps we just put them all in the same comp. Hopefully Eltham will have a colts team next year with their 18s looking good, same with Northern and Wyndham at a push. Then we have 8 sides in the colts comp.

There's only 1 colts league this year.... there's never been 2 colts leagues since I've been involved in Vic club rugby, around 5 years. One year there was 10 teams though. It fluctuates hugely.

 

[en_force_er]

Here's my suggested model for Victorian Club Rugby next year.

This presumes every club fields an identical amount of teams next year (which they probably will give or take a team here and there). The exception to this rule is Northern who are advertising for a senior 2nds coach and thus are planning to field 2 teams.

Also, the only Prem 4 teams I've included from this year are PH, Souths, and Quins' because they're the only teams without a considerable amount of forfeits.

Premier (3 grades):
Melbourne
Quins
Footscray
Moorabbin
Souths/Cerberus
Power House
Box Hill
Endeavour Hills

2nd Division (2 Grades):
Boroondara
Melbourne Uni
Northern (Presuming they can field 2 sides because they are advertising for the coaches on the VRU website)
Eltham
Geelong
Melbourne (4ths and 5ths)
Wyndham/BYE for 2nds

3rd Division A (1 Grade):
Monash Uni
Melton
Moroondah
Ballarat
Warrnambool

3rd Division B (1 Grade):
Boroondara (3rds)
Melbourne Uni (3rds)
Powerhouse (4ths)
Souths (4ths)
Quins (4ths)
*It's important to keep all these clubs in the Melbourne area as many of these clubs struggle to get lower graders to travel outside of Melbourne's borders.
** When possible 3A and 3B teams can play each other in a friendly instead of a BYE week.

 

[elementfreak]

Here's my suggested model for Victorian Club Rugby next year.

This presumes every club fields an identical amount of teams next year (which they probably will give or take a team here and there). The exception to this rule is Northern who are advertising for a senior 2nds coach and thus are planning to field 2 teams.

Also, the only Prem 4 teams I've included from this year are PH, Souths, and Quins' because they're the only teams without a considerable amount of forfeits.

Premier (3 grades):
Melbourne
Quins
Footscray
Moorabbin
Souths/Cerberus
Power House
Box Hill
Endeavour Hills

2nd Division (2 Grades):
Boroondara
Melbourne Uni
Northern (Presuming they can field 2 sides because they are advertising for the coaches on the VRU website)
Eltham
Geelong
Melbourne (4ths and 5ths)
Wyndham/BYE for 2nds

3rd Division A (1 Grade):
Monash Uni
Melton
Moroondah
Ballarat
Warrnambool

3rd Division B (1 Grade):
Boroondara (3rds)
Melbourne Uni (3rds)
Powerhouse (4ths)
Souths (4ths)
Quins (4ths)
*It's important to keep all these clubs in the Melbourne area as many of these clubs struggle to get lower graders to travel outside of Melbourne's borders.
** When possible 3A and 3B teams can play each other in a friendly instead of a BYE week.

Have you suggested this to the VRU? I think it could work well and only take a year to work out the kinks.

 

[en_force_er]

Have you suggested this to the VRU? I think it could work well and only take a year to work out the kinks.

Cheers EF.

I don't know a soul from the VRU and I think I'd be better if someone with a longer standing relationship submits it. I'd be very happy for anybody to edit it as they see fit (it's obviously not perfect) and submit it to the VRU.

The benefit with this model is it's got room for growth. It's hard to expect a club like Eltham (as an example) to grow when their 2nds are being shipped to a different place to their 1sts each week, a 2 grade comp leaves us a clear line of promotion/relegation (if the VRU want to go that route). Even if they don't, it allows an outlet for these clubs.

The way I see it:

• Prems = Vic's elite rugby (with non-playing match squad Rebels playing amongst it's ranks)
• 2nd Div = community clubs who are ambitious to play Prems and/or have decent playing numbers
• 3rd Div A = one team clubs and if necessary other teams to make up numbers
• 3rd Div B = whatever teams are surplus

Now that I think about it Uni's 3rds are good so they should probably play in 3A with somebody to be moved down, I'm sure Monash would be happy with the Uni V Uni rivalry.

I'd be very interested to here your further thoughts EF and Kronic/Pablo's too.

 

[pablo]

Cheers EF.

I don't know a soul from the VRU and I think I'd be better if someone with a longer standing relationship submits it. I'd be very happy for anybody to edit it as they see fit (it's obviously not perfect) and submit it to the VRU.

The benefit with this model is it's got room for growth. It's hard to expect a club like Eltham (as an example) to grow when their 2nds are being shipped to a different place to their 1sts each week, a 2 grade comp leaves us a clear line of promotion/relegation (if the VRU want to go that route). Even if they don't, it allows an outlet for these clubs.

The way I see it:

• Prems = Vic's elite rugby (with non-playing match squad Rebels playing amongst it's ranks)
• 2nd Div = community clubs who are ambitious to play Prems and/or have decent playing numbers
• 3rd Div A = one team clubs and if necessary other teams to make up numbers
• 3rd Div B = whatever teams are surplus

Now that I think about it Uni's 3rds are good so they should probably play in 3A with somebody to be moved down, I'm sure Monash would be happy with the Uni V Uni rivalry.


I'd be very interested to here your further thoughts EF and Kronic/Pablo's too.

There is going to be a lot of pushing and shoving about who stay and who goes with regards to clubs in the Prem 1 this season being relegated for 2013 or 14....be prepared for a fight from any club in the firing line.

That said, the model above looks good to me and I reckon the VRU should have a look at it seriously. Even if you don't know a soul at the VRU, approach your President and ask him/her to take it to the VRU, having supporters like us talk about it is one thing but actually getting it done is up to the clubs and their committees.

RE Div 3a - On top of the traditional Country competition (which at the moment only has 5 teams) it forces a more social team like Monash Uni or the Melton/Maroondah 2nds travel to Warnambool...I know it'd be a good fun trip but in all honesty do they want to travel 3-4 hours to play or just stay local and have a run? Might be an issue. Or do they do this already?? I'm not up to speed on the lower divs.....

An other option would be to have a "social" comp on a Friday night - basically your Div 3B above. That way you could have clubs compete in their regular comps, e.g. Prem or Div 2, on the Saturday and field all registered teams; and the rest of the players who are mostly social play on the Friday night. Would also mean that players who play on Friday night could also play on Saturday for their lower grades and stop the forfeits or players having to play multiple grades on a Saturday. Might be good. Might not work. Just a thought...and my 2c.

 

[en_force_er]

Firstly, cheers for your thoughts Pablo.

There is going to be a lot of pushing and shoving about who stay and who goes with regards to clubs in the Prem 1 this season being relegated for 2013 or 14..be prepared for a fight from any club in the firing line.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree Uni moving down is unideal as a club like that is always potentially a season away from being a 1st Grade finalists but if they set up the comp like I've suggested it facilitates Promotion/Relegation. One thing Footscray's demotion in '09 showed is that it doesn't make your participation numbers drop off, even when everyone was convinced they would.

said, the model above looks good to me and I reckon the VRU should have a look at it seriously. Even if you don't know a soul at the VRU, approach your President and ask him/her to take it to the VRU, having supporters like us talk about it is one thing but actually getting it done is up to the clubs and their committees.

I'm pretty unattached club wise to be honest.

Div 3a - On top of the traditional Country competition (which at the moment only has 5 teams) it forces a more social team like Monash Uni or the Melton/Maroondah 2nds travel to Warnambool.I know it'd be a good fun trip but in all honesty do they want to travel 3-4 hours to play or just stay local and have a run? Might be an issue. Or do they do this already?? I'm not up to speed on the lower divs...

You'd think that but that's how the comp has been set up this year. It's really only 1-2 long trips a year anyway, perhaps Warnambool (who are very keen to play in the metro based comps) could play a couple of home fixtures out of Geelongs ground? That's about half way?

The suggested 3A has all the sides from 2012s 2B, minus Eltham/Geelong/Melb's Reserve teams and plus Moorondah (currently in 2A, but not performing well).

other option would be to have a "social" comp on a Friday night - basically your Div 3B above. That way you could have clubs compete in their regular comps, e.g. Prem or Div 2, on the Saturday and field all registered teams; and the rest of the players who are mostly social play on the Friday night. Would also mean that players who play on Friday night could also play on Saturday for their lower grades and stop the forfeits or players having to play multiple grades on a Saturday. Might be good. Might not work. Just a thought.and my 2c.

Yeah the 3A/B part is what I'm suss about. A couple of clubs have in the past arranged friendlies for their 4s, sometimes on alternate days. I doubt a proper Friday/Sunday league would work (Did the U15s league work this year?) but perhaps the friendlies model should be continued and clubs like Quins/Powerhouse who can easily field 4ths can play them in Div 3A with 3B to be scratched.

Thoughts?

 

[elementfreak]

There is going to be a lot of pushing and shoving about who stay and who goes with regards to clubs in the Prem 1 this season being relegated for 2013 or 14..be prepared for a fight from any club in the firing line.

Teams can put up a fight all they want but if they VRU put together a clear plan moving forward (promotion and relgation each year for the bottom side or 2 in prem and the top side(s) in div2) then I think they can't really object too much.

That said, the model above looks good to me and I reckon the VRU should have a look at it seriously. Even if you don't know a soul at the VRU, approach your President and ask him/her to take it to the VRU, having supporters like us talk about it is one thing but actually getting it done is up to the clubs and their committees.

It's a great idea, although I think it might be a little too late for 2013 on this proposal.

RE Div 3a - On top of the traditional Country competition (which at the moment only has 5 teams) it forces a more social team like Monash Uni or the Melton/Maroondah 2nds travel to Warnambool.I know it'd be a good fun trip but in all honesty do they want to travel 3-4 hours to play or just stay local and have a run? Might be an issue. Or do they do this already?? I'm not up to speed on the lower divs...

Div2B at the moment is:
Maroondah
Geelond
Melbourne
Eltham
Warnambool
SPOC/UB

So a lot of travel and so far there has only been 1 forefit.

An other option would be to have a "social" comp on a Friday night - basically your Div 3B above. That way you could have clubs compete in their regular comps, e.g. Prem or Div 2, on the Saturday and field all registered teams; and the rest of the players who are mostly social play on the Friday night. Would also mean that players who play on Friday night could also play on Saturday for their lower grades and stop the forfeits or players having to play multiple grades on a Saturday. Might be good. Might not work. Just a thought.and my 2c.

Won't work as not many clubs have lights good enough to play a night game on:
Quins - Their ground struggles in winter to handle P1 and P2 let alone a game on a Friday night as well.
EH - Traditionally the go to ground for night rugby. After a few days of rain though it struggles with games on a Saturday like Quins ground.
Eltham - Good ground, probably the best one at the moment for night rugby however can get boggy when wet.
Box Hill - Their 2nd pitch has the light and it's in a pretty bad condition

 

[elementfreak]

I'm pretty unattached club wise to be honest.

You should get attached!!!