The ranting at Deans/ARU/O'Neill/Players thread

[Paradox]

Deans has to go. Those were two crucial passes he dropped in the 10 minutes before half time. And the amount of times he got penalised in the scrum was ridiculous!

and his strategy was outstanding.

 

[Slim 293]

I mentioned this on the live chat but as much as it pains me to say it, Deans was not entirely to blame for the loss tonight. I think we need to take a long hard look at the provincial coaches as all too often in Australian rugby our players get shown up due to an inability to perform basic skills under pressure. This inability is then exacerbated by poor S&C - which Bruce Ross often points out - as our supposedly tough forwards are sometimes man-handled by wingers. One of the byproducts of this is we need to put more forwards into the breakdwon which tires them out quicker which leads to walking around the field and a ponderace game plan.

Eh, but if you pick guys that have displayed such poor basic skills in Super rugby then of course they're going to be just as bad at test level.........


It's not like this is the best group of players we have.........

 

[Bardon]

If, which seems extremely likely, Aus lose next week I think Deans will be a lame duck just biding his time until the ARU decide to remove him. If he stays on after the rugby championship he'll most likely deliver a victory in the Lions series and then bow out with a little pride. If Aus lose next week AND lose one of their 2 test against Argentina he could go at the end of the championship.

I just think the number of people for whom nothing he does will be good enough from here on out is too large for him to last more than a year and he'll be doing well to survive that long. He swayed a few undecided supporters to his camp with the series win over Wales but every bad result in TRC sways a lot more people to the other camp.

I really have a soft spot for Aus and I'm a huge optimist but the only good point I could come up with from Saturday's game was that Australia actually had someone half decent performing the away teams anthem. Something that never happened in any Tri-Nation game I can remember. It always seemed to me that whoever was at home went out of their way to find the worst singer possible to perform the away anthem, like the singer who butchered the Argentina anthem against SA.

 

[redstragic]

Guys, we are rebuilding towards the 2023 world cup. As I understand it, he won't play the under 10's he has identified that will be the stars of that teams yet. Let's give deans the space he needs to execute his plans.

 

[Dam0]

I'm not quite sure I understand all the fuss about Deans after that game. The result went pretty much as expected. Very few teams beat the All Blacks. Beale had a bad game, but generaly he is pretty good. I wouldn't touch Cooper with a barge pole, especially not against the All Blacks, and I generally think that Deans has picked the team right.

The problem is that the players are just not as good as the All Black ones. If the team loses to SA and ARG then perhaps it might be worth talking about sacking him, but that is for after The Rugby Championship now.

 

[Richo]

The problem is that the players are just not as good as the All Black ones.

Nail, head. But the problem is that Deans is an additional handicap, not an asset.

 

[disco]

Deans has to go. Those were two crucial passes he dropped in the 10 minutes before half time. And the amount of times he got penalised in the scrum was ridiculous!

Mank,
I note the sarcasm but this just keeps happening under his leadership we need change, it may not fix anything but we need to try. We played better when we spent less time with Deans during the inbound tests & I hate the excuse that we don't have the cattle because I know we do.

 

[disco]

I'm not quite sure I understand all the fuss about Deans after that game. The result went pretty much as expected. Very few teams beat the All Blacks. Beale had a bad game, but generaly he is pretty good. I wouldn't touch Cooper with a barge pole, especially not against the All Blacks, and I generally think that Deans has picked the team right.

The problem is that the players are just not as good as the All Black ones. If the team loses to SA and ARG then perhaps it might be worth talking about sacking him, but that is for after The Rugby Championship now.

I totally disagree about picking the right team & we should expect to lose to the All Blacks. People have always said that man for man we aren't as good as the All Blacks even in the MacQueen era but we had a 71% win rate & that was purely because we played better as a team & MacQueen along with McKenzie could set up a plan A & B to upset the All Blacks.

 

[vidiot]

The problem is that the players are just not as good as the All Black ones. If the team loses to SA and ARG then perhaps it might be worth talking about sacking him, but that is for after The Rugby Championship now.

But how do Scotland and Samoa fit into that paradigm? Ireland in the game that shaped the RWC for Oz?

The All Blacks are better, man for man, but the wallabies appear to have fragments of a structure and the most rudimentary plan no matter who they play, and we saw it again last night.

 

[Dam0]

I totally disagree about picking the right team & we should expect to lose to the All Blacks. People have always said that man for man we aren't as good as the All Blacks even in the MacQueen era but we had a 71% win rate & that was purely because we played better as a team & MacQueen along with McKenzie could set up a plan A & B to upset the All Blacks.

In the MacQueen era there were some very good Wallaby players and some average All Black ones. Historically that is the exception rather than the rule.

In any case, I am not really saying that Deans is a great coach (I have said plenty of times that I have my doubts about him) just that I wouldn't read anything into this loss (or the one to come at Eden Park).

 

[Loki74]

In the MacQueen era there were some very good Wallaby players and some average All Black ones. Historically that is the exception rather than the rule.

In any case, I am not really saying that Deans is a great coach (I have said plenty of times that I have my doubts about him) just that I wouldn't read anything into this loss (or the one to come at Eden Park).

I can't agree. The wallabies performances have for too long suggested poor coaching. Every game seems to be some basic issue that has been neglected. Poor skills, scrums not up to it, backs have no structure, first lines tackling, line outs, held up in tackles. Often it is a different thing each game, spend a couple of weeks fixing it and something else lets us down. How can they not be working on these things ALL THE TIME?

 

[disco]

In the MacQueen era there were some very good Wallaby players and some average All Black ones. Historically that is the exception rather than the rule.

In any case, I am not really saying that Deans is a great coach (I have said plenty of times that I have my doubts about him) just that I wouldn't read anything into this loss (or the one to come at Eden Park).

Again they were classed as very good Wallaby players at the end of their career but a good majority were rejects in the Sydney club comp & ended up at the Brumbies. Majority of those very good Wallabies were also around in 1997 when we lost to the Argies.

A very smart coach made that team as did McKenzie at the Reds & Jake White at the Brumbies.

The coach certainly does make a big difference.

 

[#1?]

Can't see mckenzie or anyone doing a Harry Potter and magically turning this around in 7 days.
McKenzie has shown weaknesses under pressure on game day of late.

Would be a huge mistake to change coaches now.

 

[Gnostic]

As perhaps a founding member in this place of those who questioned Deans' ability to produce the good with the Wallabies, I was often left wondering when so many "lovers" as opposed to the hater I was termed would stop making excuses. I see that largely the tide has turned, except for those who support the incumbent regardless of who it is and what their actual results are. Miraculous that when the incumbent resigns or is sacked those people's opinions often change.

Say it outright Deans was a failure (according to rabid AB fans I know) as a test assistant. He is now a proven a failure, time and again, as a test head coach. In no phase of play have the Wallabies improved under Deans. Indeed in significant aspects they have regressed.

His supporters recently used the Welsh tests as proof that he was progressing, as if the last four seasons didn't prove otherwise. Those people then criticised those of us who questioned the quality of that series as being pessimists and not objectively looking at the win against the "6 Nations Champions". What is apparent is the fact that those supporters are unable to to see past their blinding optimism and perform the objective analysis that they accuse the "haters" of not doing. Even when confronted by excellently presented and factually supported evidence prepared by Scott Allen on this very site they refuse to accept to stark truth.

Well Mr Deans you, with the assistance of Hickey and Foley at the Tahs, have managed to cure me of a life long addiction. My addiction to Rugby. You are so poor, so clueless, so obstinate and so incomprehensible when make the umpteenth excuse for your failure to select, institute structures, develop players and basically improve the play of the team, I no longer give a shit. Take it or leave it. Indeed given the option I now often find myself taking the alternative simply because I know the play of the Wallabies will be poor. If Deans has a shred if integrity as a coach he will admit that he is bereft of ideas and ability to form a successful team from the available players in Australia and he will resign. If he doesn't he will truely prove himself to be a Dingo in the true colloquial use of that term.

Finally to those who held a secret "review" of coaching after the Rugby World Cup. You are all a disgrace, you by your actions have condoned the continuation of this farce. If you didn't support the decree from Fuhrer JON on the reappointment of Deans and you didn't stand up then prior to the RWC, you debased yourselves further and proved you are without honour with this secret review. If you still support Deans as coach I have to question your intelligence and expectations.

End of Rant.

 

[disco]

As perhaps a founding member in this place of those who questioned Deans' ability to produce the good with the Wallabies, I was often left wondering when so many "lovers" as opposed to the hater I was termed would stop making excuses. I see that largely the tide has turned, except for those who support the incumbent regardless of who it is and what their actual results are. Miraculous that when the incumbent resigns or is sacked those people's opinions often change.

Say it outright Deans was a failure (according to rabid AB fans I know) as a test assistant. He is now a proven a failure, time and again, as a test head coach. In no phase of play have the Wallabies improved under Deans. Indeed in significant aspects they have regressed.

His supporters recently used the Welsh tests as proof that he was progressing, as if the last four seasons didn't prove otherwise. Those people then criticised those of us who questioned the quality of that series as being pessimists and not objectively looking at the win against the "6 Nations Champions". What is apparent is the fact that those supporters are unable to to see past their blinding optimism and perform the objective analysis that they accuse the "haters" of not doing. Even when confronted by excellently presented and factually supported evidence prepared by Scott Allen on this very site they refuse to accept to stark truth.

Well Mr Deans you, with the assistance of Hickey and Foley at the Tahs, have managed to cure me of a life long addiction. My addiction to Rugby. You are so poor, so clueless, so obstinate and so incomprehensible when make the umpteenth excuse for your failure to select, institute structures, develop players and basically improve the play of the team, I no longer give a shit. Take it or leave it. Indeed given the option I now often find myself taking the alternative simply because I know the play of the Wallabies will be poor. If Deans has a shred if integrity as a coach he will admit that he is bereft of ideas and ability to form a successful team from the available players in Australia and he will resign. If he doesn't he will truely prove himself to be a Dingo in the true colloquial use of that term.

Finally to those who held a secret "review" of coaching after the Rugby World Cup. You are all a disgrace, you by your actions have condoned the continuation of this farce. If you didn't support the decree from Fuhrer JON on the reappointment of Deans and you didn't stand up then prior to the RWC, you debased yourselves further and proved you are without honour with this secret review. If you still support Deans as coach I have to question your intelligence and expectations.

End of Rant.

Well said, it was a good rant.

 

[FiveStarStu]

He'll be sacked after the Rugby Championship. There is no way JON will let this stand going into the Lions Tour, the cost of a poor Australia in that series would be far too great.

 

[Scoey]

... but this just keeps happening under his leadership we need change, it may not fix anything but we need to try. We played better when we spent less time with Deans during the inbound tests & I hate the excuse that we don't have the cattle because I know we do.

It was happening well before Deans' tenure started. John Connolly, Eddie Jones et al?

 

[Paradox]

3. Sharpe
2. Ioane
1. Genia

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I rate him as a coach more than some of you. However if aus don't come
2nd in the RC or higher, I'd say he's gone. Giving the new coach time to work with the team before the lions.
Lions will beat wallabies on form
Cheika, mckenzie, mallet and white should all be considered.

 

[Done that]

IMO if Deans was coaching the All Blacks the latter would still beat Australia.
It's a matter of conjecture that Australia would get closer under another coach , but talent/ability/depth are definitely in favor of the AB's.