GAGR Vote - Should Deans go after the EOYT?

[wamberal]

The 2013 Lions Tour is make or break for the game in Oz. We are in dire straits as a game, the only direction seems to be down, and the only slight bit of hope is that the Lions will do for us now what the Fijian tours did in the early fifties.

Frankly, I am deeply pessimistic, as I have posted elsewhere. I have always been a strong supporter of Deans, but I have reached the end of my tether. JON staying on for far too long has not helped matters, either.

Deans should go, Link should take over, that is the only thing I can see that might at least staunch the bleeding.

 

[Langthorne]

Yes, don't get me wrong; I agree with that. Deans is simply a dead man walking and the ARU have made a terrible error in letting him stay so long.

My reasoning for Deans to stay until after the Lions tour is actually pretty simple; if you were the in-coming Wallabies coach, would you really want your baptism of fire to be a potential loss in one of the biggest in-bound tours of your career?

We all love Link. We (nearly) all want Link to take over. Assuming Link is next, put yourself in his shoes; would you really want public opinion to be influenced negatively right out of the starters gate?

Surely that scenario is still attractive to a potential new coach - you get to coach for a Lions series, the previous coach had a poor record, if it doesn't work out you can blame the lack of prep time or the previous coach.

By the way, isn't the current state of the Wallabies 'all the fault of Eddie Jones or John Connolly' anyway?

 

[fatprop]

I disagree with the Lions series should stop any change if it is deemed necessary.

They finish this tour and all return to their S15 sides

We have no idea who will be fit or who will be in form in June next year

 

[ChargerWA]

EDIT: Have a gander at this piece by a Kiwi journo. You know things are bad when the Kiwi's feel sorry for us.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio...o-bigger-insult-than-that-20121114-29bb0.html

UUGH.

That was a brutal blow to the body. Why is it so fucking transparent to eveyone but the people at the top. And if it is so transparent to the people at the top, then they either need to be knocking on Link's door now telling him that in 4 weeks he is the man or they should be sacked for gross incompetence.

 

[daz]

.

By the way, isn't the current state of the Wallabies 'all the fault of Eddie Jones or John Connolly' anyway?

For the first 2 years of the Deans era, yes.

I think we can safely say Deans is sinking in a ship of his own making, now.

 

[p.Tah]

Just read Reason's article. Not much you can disagree with.

My reluctance with replacing the coach now is that the new coaches firts gig will be the Lions Tour. Tough job first up. However, on second thoughts, it certainly brings an element surprise. Currently we are very predictable, but the Lions will have no idea what our selections or a game style will be under the new coach (as long as its not Nucifora). That makes it very hard for them to plan against us. We'd have to do a lot of behind the close doors training sessions to ensure our combinations/strategies were firing by the first game.

 

[Jets]

Mark Reason normally isn't my cup of tea but he nails it in that article. It's almost to the point that I want the Wallabies to loose so that Deans gets canned. I have nothing against the playing group but there seems to be no direction from above. It's been that way for a while now and it has to change.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Isn't Mark Reason a Soap Dodger Journo that has been transplanted into the Shaky Isles?

IIRC he seldom has anything positive to say about footy south of the equator.

That being said, it is hard to argue with much of what is in the article, especially so when much of the article could have been lifted straight from the pages of Gaggerland.

A particularly nasty thought when he starts to call the Men in Gold as England in disguise. Ouch. That truth hurt.

The good thing about the Lions tour (if there is one such thing) is that we were able to counter Coach Gatland's grand plan when the Welsh toured here earlier in the year. He wasn't here but his DNA was all over the team.

The Welsh certainly had the players to comprehensively beat the Men in Gold. The Lions will similarly have the cattle to clean us up on paper. Will Gatland do a Henry and shag up this opportunity despite Dingo possibly being in charge?

 

[daz]

The good thing about the Lions tour (if there is one such thing) is that we were able to counter Coach Gatland's grand plan when the Welsh toured here earlier in the year. He wasn't here but his DNA was all over the team.

Wow. What kind of perverted farewell ceremonies do they have in Wales?

Sorry, my bad. Moving on now.

 

[Lior]

I don't read enough from Reason to make an appropriate comment on his history but his article today sums up the problem. Robbie Deans. He skips JON though who despite the successes of a first term proved that he is an abject failure when it comes to human logistics. I think it is nothing short of borderline corporate criminality that someone has their contract renewed after losing to Samoa and before the RWC. Mark my words Robbie Deans and JON are stains on Australian Rugby and the sooner JON is off the board the better.

I am also very concerned with Brett Harris the Australian's Rugby editor. The guy is a pillock of the highest order who seems as if he is straight from the ARU HQ. I don't read any other journalists but this guy is a rolled gold card carrying Deans lover.

Deans should resign immediately after the EOYT. If he is not resigned then someone should move a vote of no confidence in him. This guy is inept, incompetent and possesses many characteristics of a guy who does not have any idea what on earth he is doing.

Injuries, refereeing, blah, blah,blah. I'm sick of the Robbie Deans excuses, he should fuck off and take JON with him. These two have set Australian Rugby back 4 years. As well as that take the Chairman of the board with him. He is as delusional as O'Neil and Deans in saying everything's fine.

If we don't get rid of this clown then we will be trounced on home soil against the British and Irish Lions.

What is most unfortunate about this is Robbie has cemented Australia's damage for the RWC in 3 years time. We could very well be heading for a very undesirable pool match show down due to the draw. So we know who to thank for that in a few years time.

 

[Scarfman]

Ideally we would sack him about 3 days out from the Lions tour. Players love a new face - it gives them energy for a few games before falling back into old habits. Deans won his first game against the Kiwis, didn't he?

What's even better, I reckon Link is one of those coaches who turns things around quickly. He's in your face and says pull your finger out or I'll have my studs in your colon quick smart. Then maybe he runs out of ideas, but we'll see the biggest improvement in the Lions tour.

 

[Bowside]

The 'too late to make a change' excuse is bullshit if not making a change is going to result in almost certain defeat anyway.

 

[p.Tah]

I'm sick of the Robbie Deans excuses, he should fuck off and take JON with him. These two have set Australian Rugby back 4 years. As well as that take the Chairman of the board with him. He is as delusional as O'Neil and Deans in saying everything's fine.

JON has gone and the Chairman (Hawker) doesn't think everything is fine, in fact IIRC he said Australian Rugby was at crisis point.

I suspect there is a lot going on behind the scenes at the ARU.

 

[Froggy]

I don't agree with the concern about a new coach facing the Lions. Surely that is the ultimate challenge for someone who aspires to the number one job in Australian rugby. If someone finds it too intimidating, he's clearly not the right man.

There's a lot of truth in Reason's article. Why don't I like soccer? Because the game seems to be predicated on stopping the other team from scoring, rather than scoring yourself. It appears the Wallabies have taken this approach because they simply don't know how to score, how to break the line, how to beat a man. Personally, I don't see this as principally the problem of the players, as many of these guys are electric at other levels and under different coaches. It comes, in very large part, down to the coach. He appears not tp know what to do about it. Time to go.

 

[gel]

The problem is not just Deans. There are a myriad of issues that point to a much wider set of problems (how can players unlearn how to throw a pass, catch a ball, make a tackle, run more than 2m in a whole game etc etc). All the AUS super rugby teams this season (except the Brumbies) played poorly for most of the season - the Rebels had a couple of good results, but I wouldn't say they were good performances. The Reds definitely looked like a completely different team to 2010 and 2011 even though the players were the same.

Deans should definitely be put on notice (the sooner the better), but surely this is not entirely his doing. One man can't possibly have stuffed that much up by himself.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There has been a lot said about poor basic skills being exhibited by many of the players - Catch, pass, tackle, kick, run into contact, decision making etc.

Many of these skills are "learned" in the tender years (U10 - U16). If they are not there by then, then the chances are they will never be intuitive.

Many of our juniors play more than one variation of rugby over these years. One of the other variants of rugby, despite the rhetoric, does not teach skills that are transferrable to Heavensgame. In those impressionable years (U10-U16) mungoball seems to throw more resourcing into coaching kids than Heavensgame, with the result that duel coders tend to learn and adopt more mungoistic skills.

Leaping forward to adulthood, are the Men in Gold simply paying the price for mungoball coaching supremacy in the U10-U16 years?

 

[Bullrush]

There has been a lot said about poor basic skills being exhibited by many of the players - Catch, pass, tackle, kick, run into contact, decision making etc.

Many of these skills are "learned" in the tender years (U10 - U16). If they are not there by then, then the chances are they will never be intuitive.

Many of our juniors play more than one variation of rugby over these years. One of the other variants of rugby, despite the rhetoric, does not teach skills that are transferrable to Heavensgame. In those impressionable years (U10-U16) mungoball seems to throw more resourcing into coaching kids than Heavensgame, with the result that duel coders tend to learn and adopt more mungoistic skills.

Leaping forward to adulthood, are the Men in Gold simply paying the price for mungoball coaching supremacy in the U10-U16 years?

What?!

Your first line says "There has been a lot said about poor basic skills being exhibited by many of the players - Catch, pass, tackle, kick, run into contact, decision making etc"

but then you say "One of the other variants of rugby, despite the rhetoric, does not teach skills that are transferrable to Heavensgame"

Are you saying that League doesn't teach young fullas how to catch, pass, tackle, kick, run into contact or make decisions?! Seriously?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

It teaches then to do those skills in a RL framework.

Pass - How many times do you see the ball go through more than one set of hands in RL?

Tackle - Come on. It is run towards three blokes who cuddle you to stop forward momentum and prevent an off load. those three blokes then wrestle the ball carrier to the ground. The game restarts with everyone back 10 metres.

Kick - Only after you get to 5 tackles.

Decision making - strip the ball = Bad decision. Lay the ball back for support players = bad decision.

Catch - OK you got me. Both games require an ability to catch a ball and it is a transferrable skill.

RL is not as multi-dimensional as RU. Checkers vs Chess.

 

[gel]

HJ, I was more talking about the apparent drop in skill level from 2010/2011 (and previous years) to now.

Sure there are obvious guys that came to the game late (Higgebum for example) who obviously lack some of the skills compared to others that have played the game through the developing years you mentioned.

This year, most of the Australian super rugby players individual skills just haven't appeared to be that of previous years. These are largely the same guys I am talking about. Balls that were previously caught are now spilled, tackles that were previously made are now missed, passes that were previously in front of the man are now behind their head, and most importantly of all situational awareness that was previously present is now completely non existent (which leads to missed try scoring opportunities, poor defensive structures, no support play when breaks are made, players getting isolated through poor game choices etc).

I don't know what has caused this, but is most evident when comparing the 2011 Tahs & Reds to 2012 Tahs and Reds. The players are largely the same, but they have played completely differently. 2012 skills are just horrible by comparison.

Through 2010 and leading up to 2011 world cup I thought maybe we were moving in the right direction and possibly Deans might be realising his vision and plan (maybe ), but this year??? Something changed and I don't think it is all due to one guy.

Skill sets Thugby League is a bit of a different topic to what I was trying to say, but a very worthy discussion point as well, particularly if the players we have come from that background (I would say that the athleticism and skills shown by most NRL players now is something I have never seen before though) - probably not really relevant to this thread though.

 

[Hardtackle]

Can I vote twice?

Spear him now I say, again