Lions Tour 2013

[Swarley]

Actually, we had 3 jumpers against England (Sharpe, Timani, Dennis).

Potentially 4 if they had utilised Palu... although Hooper did get one.

I don't think you can have less than 3 jumpers in a team. 4 is the ideal number though.

Timani isn't really a noted jumper though, but with his height they should be training him up straight away.

 

[Bairdy]

I think the biggest issue with our pack is how to achieve a balance of physicality, skill and set-piece strength from 4-8. Obviously Pocock and Hooper are two of the best players in any position in the country, but with the added pressure that could create come line-out time etc., it might not be worth it. For me, the contenders for those spots are Horwill, Douglas, Timani, Hooper, Pocock, Higginbotham, Dennis and Palu. Personally, I think Palu and Timani deserve to keep their starting spots- they've really stepped up to the task recently and have shown us why they've been persisted with through injury/form struggles respectively. At least one of Hooper and Pocock has to start, if not both in a dual-openside system (whether similar to France's RWC one with Bonnaire-Dusautoir or not). I'm curious as to people's opinions on the following questions:

1. What is our ideal balance of skill (Pocock, Hooper, Dennis, Higginbotham) vs. size (Timani, Palu, Douglas, Horwill) in regards to the set-piece and open play?

2. Do we really need three line-out jumpers, or can we manage with just two (as we did against England)?

I'd go with this combination:
4. Horwill (c)
5. Douglas
6. Timani
7. Pocock
8. Palu

19. Dennis
20. Hooper

This is only my opinion, but

1. I think we could have Timani cover lock primarily, then blindside, but I don't think we should start him there alongside workhorses as Horwill, Douglas, Pocock and Palu, unless we go for an all out monster pack. But even then I would argue we need some mobility in the backrow, which is where Higginbotham, or perhaps Dennis comes in.

2. We need three line-out jumpers I think; 2 puts a lot of pressure on those jumpers so having ideally one more would help.

One question I would put out is how different in scrummaging are Douglas and Timani, because we hear alot about how the tightheads love having Timani behind them but is he a far more powerful scrummager then Douglas?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Following the first weekend's action of the various SH EOYT, Skysports.com's rugby union writer Tony Curtis names his Lions XV based on who shone in those four Tests...

15. Alex Goode (England)
Arguably the star performer of the weekend's action. Had been fighting it out with Mike Brown for the No 15 jersey but he full justified his selection with a mercurial display.

14. Tim Visser (Scotland)
Threw down a massive marker for a spot in the Lions XV with two tries against the All Blacks. The Edinburgh winger has proved that he can replicate his domestic form on the international stage - and just seems to get better and better every time he plays.

13. Manu Tuilagi (England)
The England centre might the lack creativity and subtle of some 13s, however he has the pace and power that means he is like a magnet for defenders. He took his two tries well against a tiring Fiji defence, while he was a menace in defence.

12. Gordon D'Arcy (Ireland)
Has perhaps never received the plaudits he deserves but D'Arcy is a quality operator in midfield. Remains a defensive lynchpin for the Irish, while he fought for every inch of ground.

11. Charlie Sharples (England)
Facing a fight to retain his place in the England side to face Australia with Chris Ashton set to return, however the Gloucester wing did his chances of playing no harm with two tries. He finished brilliantly for the first and was in the right place at the right time for the second.

10. Jonny Sexton (Ireland)
Remains the favourite to start at No 10 for the Lions in the summer and further underlined his credentials against South Africa. Was cool and calm under pressure and kicked well.

9. Mike Blair (Scotland)
A lively display from the former Scotland skipper on a difficult day at Murrayfield. He had a hand in one of the three tries and kept trying to get the pack moving forward.

8. Toby Faletau (Wales)
Like Jarvis, Faletau could walk off the Millennium Stadium pitch with his head held high. He took the fight to the Pumas in defence and attack and looks to have a bright future ahead of him.

7. Dave Denton (Scotland)
Staked a claim for a starting spot after impressing off the bench, although not a natural openside. He ran hard at the All Blacks as he put his shaky domestic form behind him.

6. Tom Johnson (England)
An assured and comfortable display from the Exeter blindside, capped off with a well-deserved try. Johnson now has a fantastic chance to cement a regular place in the side.

5. Mike McCarthy (Ireland)
A late bloomer on the international stage, the 30-year-old was rightly named man of the match against the Springboks. Taught the Boks one or two things about tackling, while he showed a real willingness with the ball in hand.

4. Geoff Parling (England)
The Leicester man might not gain the same headlines as some of his team-mates, but he is a crucial cog in the England side. His lineout work gave England a platform to build.

3. Aaron Jarvis (Wales)
Another man who caught the eye on his debut. One of the very few positives to come out of an abject display from the Welsh, Jarvis did everything that was asked of him and more.

2. Tom Youngs (England)
Came into the game with doubts over his lineout abilities but he silenced his critics with an impressive debut. Tougher tests ultimate await the former centre, but the early signs are encouraging.

1. Cian Healy (Ireland)
The prop put in the sort of workload that would put many back-rowers to shame. He turned over South African possession and was still run hard late into the game.

Source: http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/1699/ArticleID/8004/Default.aspx

 

[It is what it is]

Could be the worst Lions team to ever visit our shores.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That's why I posted a few pages back, that even with the Dingo in charge of the Men in Gold, we shouldn't have too much to worry about.

Just need to get a few more back from Team Rehab.

The results from weekend 2 of the SH EOYT have done little to change my mind about our chances next year. Bring it on.

 

[qwerty51]

Weak?? How is this weak?

1. Cian Healy/Gethin Jenkins
2. Dylan Hartley/Rory Best
3. Adam Jones/Dan Cole
4. Richie Gray/Courtney Lawes
5. Paul O'Connell/Luke Charteris
6. Stephen Ferris/Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton/Sean O'Brien
8. Toby Faletau/Jamie Heaslip
9. Mike Phillips/Danny Care
10. Johnny Sexton/Toby Flood
11. George North/Tim Visser
12. Jamies Roberts/Brad Barritt
13. Manu Tuilagi/Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert/Chris Ashton
15. Stephen Kearney/Ben Foden

 

[DPK]

Showing the chin a little early aren't we, boys?

 

[en_force_er]

Weak?? How is this weak?

1. Cian Healy/Gethin Jenkins
2. Dylan Hartley/Rory Best
3. Adam Jones/Dan Cole
4. Richie Gray/Courtney Lawes
5. Paul O'Connell/Luke Charteris
6. Stephen Ferris/Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton/Sean O'Brien
8. Toby Faletau/Jamie Heaslip
9. Mike Phillips/Danny Care
10. Johnny Sexton/Toby Flood
11. George North/Tim Visser
12. Jamies Roberts/Brad Barritt
13. Manu Tuilagi/Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert/Chris Ashton
15. Stephen Kearney/Ben Foden

Yoru list goes very much off WC and 6N form, things have changed very quickly

Bolded are currently injured, most of them have been for a while/will be for a while.
Italics are considered by most to be having some pretty poor form.

I was even generous with the Italics as Grey has been awful for Sale (but good for Scotland) and Best has been perfectly solid but isn't deemed Irish starting standard which would have to hurt his chances.

Are those contracted in France (which will be Jenkins. Phillips, and Roberts) available to tour? You'd hope so but who knows.

 

[Intruder]

Weak?? How is this weak?

1. Cian Healy/Gethin Jenkins
2. Dylan Hartley/Rory Best
3. Adam Jones/Dan Cole
4. Richie Gray/Courtney Lawes
5. Paul O'Connell/Luke Charteris
6. Stephen Ferris/Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton/Sean O'Brien
8. Toby Faletau/Jamie Heaslip
9. Mike Phillips/Danny Care
10. Johnny Sexton/Toby Flood
11. George North/Tim Visser
12. Jamies Roberts/Brad Barritt
13. Manu Tuilagi/Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert/Chris Ashton
15. Stephen Kearney/Ben Foden

Players currently available;

15. Leigh Halfpenny (WAL)
14. Tommy Bowe (IRE)
13. Manu Tuilagi (ENG)
12. Jamie Roberts (WAL)
11. George North (WAL)
10. Johnny Sexton (IRE)
9. Mike Phillips (WAL)
8. Dave Denton (SCO)
7. Sam Warburton (WAL)
6. Toby Faletau (WAL)
5. Geoff Parling (ENG)
4. Richie Gray (SCO)
3. Dan Cole (ENG)
2. Tom Youngs (ENG)
1. Cian Healy (IRE)

 

[Bardon]

Just a little bit of trivia: Next year's Lions tour will be the first since 1993 where players from the reigning world champions are not involved in the series.

 

[Bowside]

Is it safe to assume Gillroy will be playing some part in this tour?

With the likes of Ashton, Bowe, North, Visser and Gilroy the lions are not looking to shaby out wide.

 

[Bardon]

Too early to say who'll definitely be on the tour. Performance in the 6Ns normally accounts for many of the spots seen up for grabs outside of those who everyone assumes will be picked by default as long as they're fit. Then there maybe 1 or 2 bolters not in their respective national sides (possibly Steffon Armitage) and 1 or 2 of those assumed to be in the squad will be left out.

Next years 6Ns should see a lot of new faces on the international scene now that the rankings for the next RWC are settled. I hope Declan Kidney is willing to introduce some youth, the new Scotland boss will have different ideas to Andy Robinson. England normally use more players than anyone else during a 6Ns campaign especially if results aren't going their way. Wales have a number of youngsters pushing for selection also.

So it's not inconceivable that a couple of those going on the tour have yet to earn their first cap.

With all that said I'd agree those wing choices look really good and Gilroy has at least done enough to be in the shake up for places at present. The backrow is going to be another hotly contested area and a number of top quality players are going to miss out.

 

[qwerty51]

Has Gatland said he's fine picking from French based players? Armitage would have to be favourite for the 7 if so, can't believe Lancaster won't pick him. The best 7 in the NH atm I reckon.

 

[en_force_er]

Has Gatland said he's fine picking from French based players? Armitage would have to be favourite for the 7 if so, can't believe Lancaster won't pick him. The best 7 in the NH atm I reckon.

The Armitage brothers are known for being loose-cannons to some extent. That and they were very aware of the French-based player policy when they signed. It's perfectly fair for them not to be selected for England.

The fact that it seems his natural waistline is a little chubby makes it easy for Lancaster to opt out of picking him without addressing of the above issues. It's a shame that sometimes 'fitness' is about aesthetics, some guys (me included) will always have a belly even when they're fighting fit (think maybe Dave Taylor or Morgan Turanui, not that I'm in that class).

That being said you'd expect him to appear in the Lions squad.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Players currently available;

15. Leigh Halfpenny (WAL)
14. Tommy Bowe (IRE)
13. Manu Tuilagi (ENG)
12. Jamie Roberts (WAL)
11. George North (WAL)
10. Johnny Sexton (IRE)
9. Mike Phillips (WAL)
8. Dave Denton (SCO)
7. Sam Warburton (WAL)
6. Toby Faletau (WAL)
5. Geoff Parling (ENG)
4. Richie Gray (SCO)
3. Dan Cole (ENG)
2. Tom Youngs (ENG)
1. Cian Healy (IRE)

Not being cocky. But if we can get a full strength Wallabies squad free from injury and hopefully with a decent Super Rugby season up to that point. If that is the Lions team we should come out in front.

As for my pack. It would look something like this.

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Kepu (he is the superior scrummager between both himself and Alexander)
4. Kev
5. Douglas
6. Timani (he can comfortably occupy this role)
7. Pocock
8. Cliffy.

We should go out there next June with a pack to physically impose themselves early in the piece. This pack has the ability to do just that. It will be about the attitude they choose to bring. Aside from that it is our strongest scrummaging unit. Keep the likes of Hooper, Higgers and Dennis on the bench to bring on late in the piece (last 20 or so) to play to their strengths. Neither are terribly physically imposing (Hooper is the most incisive of the three and is the smallest) but would up a gear right when the Lions would want it the least.

 

[Bardon]

The thing about the Lions is that although there is a huge depth in terms of quality players competing for a starting spot Gatland can still only have 15 of those guys on the field.

Doesn't matter if in some positions the Lions might have 3-4 players ahead of the Aus players in the same position (on paper). It comes down to who Gatland picks and if they perform better than who Deans picks in the tests. Having an amazing alternate 15 sitting in the stands/watching at home on TV isn't going to put any points on the board for the Lions.

Also despite the depth of talent available to the Lions, Aus still have the better first choice in some positions no matter who Gatland picks.

Personally I think Aus will win the series although I'd love to be proved wrong. But a 2-1 score either way with some fantastic rugby and a thrilling final decider test would leave me and I think most rugby fans reasonably happy.

 

[Jethro Tah]

As I posted in the journalism thread, Growden will be commentating on ESPN with Matt Burke and Duncan McRae starting with the 6N. It would be interesting if Ronan O'Gara got a TV gig covering the Lions tour for Sky Sports and happened to bump into McRae doing sideline comments on the Tahs v Lions midweek game next year.

 

[en_force_er]

As I posted in the journalism thread, Growden will be commentating on ESPN with Matt Burke and Duncan McRae starting with the 6N. It would be interesting if Ronan O'Gara got a TV gig covering the Lions tour for Sky Sports and happened to bump into McRae doing sideline comments on the Tahs v Lions midweek game next year.

Growden's work with the spoken word is generally better than his articles in my opinion.

 

[KevinO]

Is it safe to assume Gillroy will be playing some part in this tour?

With the likes of Ashton, Bowe, North, Visser and Gilroy the lions are not looking to shaby out wide.

Interesting thing is if Rob Kearney and Brian O'Driscoll where not injured I don't think Gilroy would have even got a chance with Zebo and Earls both preferred on the wing, on current form his a great chance but it all depends on the side Kidney picks for the 6 nations.

I still don't rate Sexton as the best 10 for the Lions tour, his form for Leinster is unreal. He just never seems to play that good in a Green jersey. If Priestland finds form in the 6 Nations he has to be in the squad, currently the way Wales are playing their could be more scotts than Walsh in the side.

I also don't rate Rory Best in the top two hookers for the Lions.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I don't understand why one of the 4 shortlisted 2012 IRB Players of the Year, Owen Farrell (Eng) hasn't featured as a shoe in selection for the Lions tour.

He is the only one of the alleged World's Best players eligible for the Lions.