Lance is a cheat? Yes or no

[Ash]

I don't think any of them bar Landis have any form of civil or criminal charges coming out of what they did? Plenty of sponsors have come out and said they want their appearances fees given to Armstrong returned etc. It doesn't seem like the same level of "justice" has been sought from those three? Hell Basso is still riding.

This isn't me siding with Armstrong, rather than crucifying one kingpin, crucify all of them.

Armstrong has people wanting to sue him because Armstrong sued all and sundry during his career - the guy was particularly litigious and vindictive. I hope that the British newspaper (whose name I've forgotten; was it The Times?) sues the hell out of Armstrong and gets more than their money back (if you missed it, they dared to run an article in the mid-2000s which quoted someone who had seen Armstrong dope, and Armstrong sued the pants off them in retaliation). That's just one example; there's heaps more I can use Google to find.

But I agree with your opinion on getting all of them. Personally, I just want to move on from that era in cycling, and I see Armstrong as basically being representative of all that is wrong with that era. There are still many caught and uncaught unrepentant dopers from that era, but I see Armstrong being caught as an important admission to what occurred, and being able to move on. A part of moving on has to be change in the UCI, which hopefully this will bring about.

Basso is a funny case. He was suspended for two years and came back, but he's at a much, much lower level than he was before he was suspended, leaving little doubt as what he was up to before. Basso was basically caught in Op Peurto, yet used the excuse that he was "planning to dope", but hadn't yet. Not much of an admission, really. Guys who come out and tell all fairly honestly (recently like Thomas Frei and Bernard Kohl) are few and far between. Much easier to maintain the omerta and be allowed back into the peloton.

To be honest, I don't have much time for Basso either. Or other unrepentant and denialist dopers, like Valverde.

 

[Rob42]

Lance is very unlikely to make any sort of confession because he has an insurance company suing him for the millions they paid out on behalf of US Postal as bonuses for his TDF wins. If he confesses, he'll have to pay it back.

Not to mention the fact that he's always seemed as far away from remorse or guilt as it is possible to be.

 

[ChargerWA]

News.com.au reporting Lance admitted to doping in the Oprah interview.

 

[daz]

IF, and it's a big IF, Armstrong admits to doping on the Winfrey couch (or at anytime thereafter), the following should occur in quick succession:

1) He is sued for the return of every cent he made by every sponsor and government subsidy (including payments won against media organisations who were successfully sued for slander when they dared suggest Armstrong was a drug cheat).
2) A warrant for his arrest is made by the local/state/federal government, and subsequent trial, conviction and jailing is carried out.
3) His ban from competing in ANY event, anywhere in the world, is upheld.
4) He should burn in hell.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Braveheart81]

I can't imagine that Armstrong is admitting to doping (which he has reportedly done today) without having first tested the waters.

There must be some guarantees that he has got regarding both the likely ban he will receive from WADA/USADA (to reduce his current life ban) and some sort of indemnification against criminal prosecution because he presumably lied in front of the grand jury (the reason for which Marion Jones went to prison).

The reason behind all of this is that he wants to be able to compete in ironman, triathlon and marathon races which he is currently banned for life from. I can't imagine he'd be risking going to prison just to be able to compete again.

 

[daz]

Sadly, I agree with you BH. There is no way Armstrong will come out and say "I'm a drug cheat" this week unless he has written and lawful immunity from all sorts of post-admission issues.

He spent years evading detection and more years being extremely wilful in his denials. He also has a lot of money to protect. He is not stupid enough to just walk into a room and throw all that away. Not even Oprah could protect him!

I do wonder though, if he could genuinely admit to steroid-doping as a cure for testicular cancer; namely, the drugs shrunk his balls away.

 

[ChargerWA]

There was a report last week saying that the statute of limitations for him to be convicted over lying to the grand jury expired last month, so he won't go to prison. Only have to deal with the civil claims.

Cynical timing much?

 

[Braveheart81]

There was a report last week saying that the statute of limitations for him to be convicted over lying to the grand jury expired last month, so he won't go to prison. Only have to deal with the civil claims.

Cynical timing much?

I think it's accurate more than cynical.

Lance Armstrong would be an idiot to say anythig in public that would risk him going to prison. This whole charade is to try and improve his position, not worsen it.

 

[Torn Hammy]

He is just your bog average psycopath. There will be no real remorse, guilt, or empathy to those he cheated.

Here is a testimony on riding clean by Nicole Cook. Brilliant in this context.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/14/nicole-cooke-retirement-statement

 

[Ash]

Lots of fantastic and interesting articles have come out recently on Lance.

Here's some, if you interested in reading:

Behind Lance Armstrong's Decision to Talk:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324734904578241801441261928.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet

Excerpt:

The meeting, which was tense, took place at a conference room near the Denver airport. Mr. Tygart told Mr. Armstrong that he had already had his chance to come clean, and that, at best, if he gave full cooperation, the ban would be eight years.

Mr. Tygart told Mr. Armstrong he stood accused of offenses that stretched beyond doping to a coverup marked by nearly 15 years of denials, threats and actions against anyone who told the truth about doping on the team.

When Mr. Armstrong told Mr. Tygart that he held the keys to his own redemption, said one person with knowledge of the meeting, Mr. Tygart responded: "That's b—." He told Mr. Armstrong that all he wanted to do was figure out a way to compete again.
Mr. Armstrong shot back that he would compete in unsanctioned races, hurled a profanity, and walked out.

While in Hawaii, Mr. Armstrong spent time with Ms. Winfrey. She had interviewed him on previous occasions and had been supportive of him.

Justice Department Takes Aim at Armstrong:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323596204578242250517426858.html

Excerpt:

The Postal Service paid a total of $30.6 million to the team's management company to sponsor the team from 2001 through 2004, according to a sponsorship agreement reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. The contract said "negative publicity" due to "alleged possession, use or sale of banned substances" by riders or team personnel would constitute an "event of default," as would a failure to take "action" if a rider violates a morals or drug clause.

Under the False Claims Act, if Armstrong and others are found to have violated the act, they could be on the hook for triple the amount of the total paid under the contract. That could mean damages of roughly $100 million.

Recently, Armstrong's legal team has been in negotiations with the Justice Department in an attempt to settle the suit, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Lance Armstrong's doping admission: Questions Oprah should have asked:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions-oprah-should-ask-lance-armstrong-230849439.html

Excerpt:

In the end, Armstrong did far more good for the world – particularly in the cancer wards where inspiration is so desperately needed – than bad. He rides a bicycle. He didn't kill anyone.

He did, however, try to destroy some people – their finances, their businesses, their reputations, their names. These are the victims of Lance Armstrong, and the only hope is that Winfrey didn't just let Lance brush aside the truly aggrieved parties or the obvious questions.

Armstrong isn't necessarily a bad guy for doping. He is a bad guy for the way he used his immense power, fame and fortune to attempt to ruin anyone who dared to speak the truth to his avalanche of lies.

The one above really resonated with me on how much of a bastard the guy is.

For example:

What do you say to Emma O'Reilly, who was a young Dublin native when she was first hired by the U.S. Postal team to give massages to the riders after races?

In the early 2000s, she told stories of rampant doping and how she was used to transport the drugs across international borders. In the USADA report, she testified that you tried to "make my life hell."

Her story was true, Lance, wasn't it? And you knew it was true. Yet despite knowing it was true, you, a famous multimillionaire superstar, used high-priced lawyers to sue this simple woman for more money than she was worth in England, where slander laws favor the famous. She had no chance to fight it.

She testified that you tried to ruin her by spreading word that she was a prostitute with a heavy drinking problem.
"The traumatizing part," she once told the New York Times, "was dealing with telling the truth."

We've just scratched the surface on people you pushed around. There are more victims in your wake. Do you want me to continue with the others?

Lance Armstrong may return some taxpayer money team received:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162...may-return-some-taxpayer-money-team-received/

 

[daz]

Just to answer the original question posed in the title of this thread, the answer from the horses mouth, is yes.

 

[It is what it is]

In the interview he came across as a dud bash of a bloke.
He's a cheat and he's boring too.

 

[Ash]

To me, he came across as a bit of a sociopath.

 

[ChargerWA]

He appears to be so sociopathic, he has gone one more step and has no empathy for himself either. I got through the whole interview feeling like I was watching a robot. No genuine emotion, just answers he thought were expected of him.

I don't even think he did it to clear the air, he just did it so everyone would leave him the fuck alone.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

To me, he came across as a bit of a sociopath.

That's what I thought beforehand, and it got massively re-enforced today. I simply stopped watching because I got tired of his attitude.

He would admit to cheating and ruining all these people's lives. And instead of concluding "yeah it's best if I take time off and make big changes to my life, I have really screwed up". He thinks calling them to say sorry is a great start and that he should get back to winning ironmans in the meantime. Against athletes who haven't had the benefit of training on EPO for the last decade.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Paul Kimmage putting the boot in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/19/lance-armstrong-cycling

Here's my bottom line.
In the autumn of 1993, Greg LeMond and his wife, Kathy, were sitting at home in the suburbs of Minneapolis, when they received a visit from Linda Mooneyham, the three-times Tour de France winner has recalled. Her 21-year-old son, Lance Armstrong, had just become the world champion and she had travelled from her home in Texas for advice.
"What does he do now?" she asked. "What does he do with his money?"
"Well, let him find an agent – a good one with an attorney," LeMond replied. "And one word of advice – just be his mom."
They sat on the porch for a while and then moved inside to the kitchen. Linda had something else on her mind: "How do I make him less of an asshole. He doesn't care about anyone."
"Well," LeMond replied. "I can't help you there."

 

[Baldric]

About the only thing that Lance is sorry about is that he got caught.

 

[Braveheart81]

http://sphotos-f.AK (Andrew Kellaway).fbcdn.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash4/379262_10151401174949628_28885486_n.jpg

 

[Baldric]

Interesting article on the legal side of Lance’s confession/denial

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/cycling/article3669933.ece

 

[I like to watch]

Words fail me, what a dog.He is shameless.