AIC Rugby 2013

[don't_go_latho]

In regards to Lauries, this year was always going to be a tough one going by this age groups performance 2 years ago which was terrible. Next year with a stronger age group and a large number of boys who gained 1stxv experience throughout the season hopes are high for a better season. Another issue is the fact that Lauries for a few years now have only really judged their success on whether they beat Ashgrove and Villa which is a huge problem and promotes mediocrity. I think you'll find the Iona side this year was a "once in a 20 year side" who had a fantastic age group all the way through, topped up with a couple of standouts who were a year older such as Wilkin. The issue for Ash is that next year their side i feel is weaker than the side this year so it will be interesting to see how they perform. If Ash and Lauries have a poor season next year the pressure from Old Boys to maybe look at bringing in players may start to build so it will be interesting to see what happens in the future. A strong Ash and Lauries is important to the AIC cause both schools have the most tradition and the most spirit.

 

[Galloper]

With the greatest respect I take your on point about other schools becoming bigger however this does not seem to be reflected in more teams?
I stand by my remarks re St Laurences and Ashgrove "A' and 1st XV teams - weakest I have ever seen them (across the board).
Though we love to beat them, it is not a good development overall.

Saecom, I think there's probably something in your suggestion that the apparent decline in rugby at Ashgrove (can't comment on SLC) may partly be due to a lack of "hardness" in the present crop of students there.

I haven't seen a First XV game for several years, but as the parent of a young bloke at Ashgrove, and as someone who has been playing/watching rugby there since 1972, there's no doubt that the parent group there is, generally speaking, far more affluent than in "the old days".

Ashgrove is dominated nowadays by sons of Old Boys who tend to have done fairly well financially, with fewer boys from what you might call "tough" backgrounds as you would have seen in the 70's or 80's.

I think that one of the consequences of this is that the boys tend to be more spoiled, or "softer", than in my day, with far less emphasis placed on rugby, and sport in general, and this almost certainly has at least some impact, albeit nebulous, on the standard of rugby.

Having said that, my impression was that at the start of the season Ashgrove First XV was rated pretty highly, with wins over Knox Grammar and Waverley in the final trials, both of whom beat Iona. I'm not sure what went wrong, but I doubt that a side with Clarke, Devine, Treleaven and Manning etc was the school's worst-ever. If Ashgrove had beaten SPLC for example (and they led with a minute to go), losses to good Iona and Eddies sides would hardly have been catastrophic.

What does the future hold? I'm not in the inner circle, but I'd be very surprised if there isn't a concerted effort made to look at coaching standards/methods, training etc and improve performance across the board. However, what you won't see is any importing, because Ashgrove certainly doesn't need to win rugby premierships for marketing purposes, unlike say Nudgee in GPS, and at the end of the day rugby premierships in the AIC only matter so much to so relatively few.

 

[Saecom]

Saecom, I think there's probably something in your suggestion that the apparent decline in rugby at Ashgrove (can't comment on SLC) may partly be due to a lack of "hardness" in the present crop of students there.

I haven't seen a First XV game for several years, but as the parent of a young bloke at Ashgrove, and as someone who has been playing/watching rugby there since 1972, there's no doubt that the parent group there is, generally speaking, far more affluent than in "the old days".

Ashgrove is dominated nowadays by sons of Old Boys who tend to have done fairly well financially, with fewer boys from what you might call "tough" backgrounds as you would have seen in the 70's or 80's.

I think that one of the consequences of this is that the boys tend to be more spoiled, or "softer", than in my day, with far less emphasis placed on rugby, and sport in general, and this almost certainly has at least some impact, albeit nebulous, on the standard of rugby.

Having said that, my impression was that at the start of the season Ashgrove First XV was rated pretty highly, with wins over Knox Grammar and Waverley in the final trials, both of whom beat Iona. I'm not sure what went wrong, but I doubt that a side with Clarke, Devine, Treleaven and Manning etc was the school's worst-ever. If Ashgrove had beaten SPLC for example (and they led with a minute to go), losses to good Iona and Eddies sides would hardly have been catastrophic.

What does the future hold? I'm not in the inner circle, but I'd be very surprised if there isn't a concerted effort made to look at coaching standards/methods, training etc and improve performance across the board. However, what you won't see is any importing, because Ashgrove certainly doesn't need to win rugby premierships for marketing purposes, unlike say Nudgee in GPS, and at the end of the day rugby premierships in the AIC only matter so much to so relatively few.

A considered and thoughtful reply Galloper and one probably close to the mark in many ways. I, for one, would be very sad to see Ashgrove (or SLC) go down the import path. From what I have been told by trustworthy sources inside Ashgrove over the years, I do not believe they have ever really "imported" though there are those on this forum who would believe otherwise.

I have been told Ashgrove have lost a couple highly regarded and influential staff coaches in the last several years. One Ashgrove fan (with a long history of Ashgrove connection) reckoned this was a very big factor in the drop off (along with less "physical" boys).

 

[ruggun11]

No hate mail here Saecom, I'm glad you managed to get the net hooked up in the den, I have always enjoyed your postings.
I agree with much of what you have posted.
I think that the Lauries and Ash 1st team this season are the weakest teams that either school has put on the park. Their declining standards have coincided with some improvements at other schools.

I have been told that the increasing poaching of players from AIC schools to GPS may have also effected the standards of AIC rugby.

I think that the lack of "hard physical kids" is more a generation thing rather than just a school by school element. I mean I don't think PS3/facebook hardens the way backyard footy and skate parks did.
One think I have notice that with this lack of "hard physical kids" across the schools, the teams which do have some size of their side do dominate.
eg Iona 2013, eddies, Peters 2012 Padua 2011 all teams with some real size about them. I guess with no "hard physical kids" the big boys will run a muck.

I don't think you can say the ashgrove team this year was the weakest they have put out on the park. This same Ashgrove age group for Rugby won the 16A's premiership last year and were always in contention the years before. There toughest opponent was always Iona and they were always flogging the likes of SPLC and Eddies.

I don't think it is fair to say Ashgrove produced a weak team. I think it is fair to say that the other schools have invested some serious time and maybe even some serious money into increasing their rugby program.

 

[David Connors]

Those who have followed this forum for more than just this season may recall I posted a number of times last year mainly on the history of AIC (the Association and the Rugby).
I was correctly accused of being on old fart sitting with my pipe and slippers in a dusty den. Please excuse the observations in this post if they offend however they do come with the benefit of experience if nothing else.
A couple important points

• Congratulations to Iona who were clearly the best side in the competition and deserved their Premiership. Iona really seem to have their act together across the ages so kudos to them for the 1st XV and as a whole school.
• St Peters showed that 2012 was not a flash in the pan and the better showings by their age group teams is also encouraging for the Association.

Forgive me for saying though, that the real story of the season is the incredible fall in standard and results by St Laurences and Ashgrove. I would encourage younger members of the forum to read over the 2012 forum and see some of the history there. St Laurences have traditionally been one of the powerhouses of AIC (and before that TAS) rugby. I was speaking several weeks ago with an experienced SLC teacher I know and he was very sad at how (his words) "rugby is dying at Lauries".
As for Ashgrove it defies belief the 1st XV was beaten 3 times in the season (my Ashgrove insider tells me that last happened in 1973!). I understand other posters will quickly point and say this proves that Iona, St Edmunds and St Peters have improved lots. This may or may not be so however the drop in Ashgrove is not just in 1sts but across the board. For a school with a 1st XV that went 5 years without a loss (2002 - 2006) and between 1998 and 2002 produced about 8 Australian Schoolboys the drop from 2007 to now is staggering. I think they have shared 2 premierships in the past 6 years?
The next thing I am going to say is going to make me really unpopular.
The drop off in these two schools is a very bad thing for all the schools in AIC. I know we all like to see them beaten however there is a bigger picture.
If AIC is to be competitive with GPS then a strong Ashgrove and St Laurences (being two of the biggest schools) is critical. Without the depth provided by these schools it will be much harder for good players from all AIC schools to get a look in at the next level.
I would be very interested to hear from some Ashgrove and St Laurences insiders as to their opinions for their fall from grace. From what I understand both schools have less "hard physical kids" attending? I have also been told they have both lost some experienced top coaches?
Let the hate mail begin.

I think the problem at SLC is the culture. The whole culture at the school has changed in the last few years and as it can be seen, the results have dropped off severely.
Some of the attitudes at training have been quite bad with the attitude of 'near enough is good enough' starting to creep in. THis is something that would have been unacceptable a few years ago and now this attitude has shown with the results on the park.
The future is looking bright however with the 16As winning the share of the premiership with a host of their best players up in the firsts each week. The 1sts had quite a young team this year with up to 10-12 players playing in the 1sts from year 11 or 10.
A couple to look out for are Joel Mead who is in year 11 and played fullback this year and was quite good. Another who impressed was Dan McHugh who played tight head prop this year and is only in year 10. He has another 2 years of 1st XV ahead of him and his experiances will only help for the future teams.

 

[Harry36d]

Initial post.

Although this may be very unfair of me I attribute this years poor performance to the coaching staff at ASH.

I believe this was one of the most statistically impressive ASH teams in a number of years but in the games I watched Pat, Villa and Iona it was clear that these standout players were not enough. The team as a whole didnt appear to be working nearly as well other sides. Iona was the best demonstration of this. I'll remain firm that aside for the usual name player, Ashgrove had a better side. However Iona produced a better TEAM.

The 2012 side was subject to losing nearly 10 players from the beginning of grade 8 to the year 12 team. I recall a friend who's son attend Marist telling me that only one player had played in the A team for the whole 5 years. I think the values of Ash are also changing due to the new principal, there seems to be a push to take away from the colleges rich sporting heritage and turn it into more of a reputable academic school.

To give a very loose example, it would be like trying to turn Nudgee into Grammar.

Very saddening to see a school with such impressive past results loose its spirit, but it could be a good thing. Maybe Ash needs to update the way it approaches AIC, the coaches need to start doing work as opposed to having golden players (like the mentioned Australian reps) delivered to them. That being said I personally believe the AIC 1 & 2 teams will still pay tribute to the individual stars, which I suppose draws further light onto how much better the team should have performed.

Also a quick mention to how physically small the Ash teams have appeared over the past 3 or so years. Size goes almost as far as skill at this level and that's something that teams need to realise.

 

[xxxx]

I don't think you can say the ashgrove team this year was the weakest they have put out on the park. This same Ashgrove age group for Rugby won the 16A's premiership last year and were always in contention the years before. There toughest opponent was always Iona and they were always flogging the likes of SPLC and Eddies.

I don't think it is fair to say Ashgrove produced a weak team. I think it is fair to say that the other schools have invested some serious time and maybe even some serious money into increasing their rugby program.

ruggun, I think you may have misunderstood me, to clarify my point.
I didn't say this years 1st Ash team was weak, comparing them with Lauries, Padua and Villa they were reasonable and do have some talent. ( I thought the 10 was good)
BUT in comparing this year 1st to past Ash teams they would be the weakest.
IMO they would not have beaten any team that ASH would had fielded in the past.

 

[Rixy37]

Quickly aside from this, is anyone aware of when the AIC/GPS representative teams are being announced? And where the teams will be able to be viewed?

 

[Saecom]

I don't think you can say the ashgrove team this year was the weakest they have put out on the park. This same Ashgrove age group for Rugby won the 16A's premiership last year and were always in contention the years before. There toughest opponent was always Iona and they were always flogging the likes of SPLC and Eddies.

I don't think it is fair to say Ashgrove produced a weak team. I think it is fair to say that the other schools have invested some serious time and maybe even some serious money into increasing their rugby program.

Sorry to disagree ruggun however I am very firmly of the belief there has been a steady decline in Ashgrove 1st XVs since about 2006 or 2007. I say this as someone who has been heavily involved at another AIC (and formerly TAS school) for a very long time.
Ashgrove 1st XVs now are certainly nothing like the average Ashgrove 1st XVs of this period not alone the many exceptional teams they have produced. Just an honest observation - sorry if it upsets you.

 

[Rugby Mum]

Quickly aside from this, is anyone aware of when the AIC/GPS representative teams are being announced? And where the teams will be able to be viewed?

This coming weekend as games fostered on next week....

 

[Jordan Ayton]

This coming weekend as games fostered on next week..

do you know where you can find them when they are posted, word is theyll be on the queensland school sport page but it doesnt look like they update that page very often

 

[Eric Grothe Sr]

The generations have changed - they are bigger now but are not as skillful, despite better coaching. SLC and ASH are certainly suffering but do not discount the fact like somebody mentioned (was it ruggun?) that others have invested (keeping them nameless):



Padua - Coaching coordinator from BGS

SPC - Wonderful coach

Eddies - Coaching coordinator whose focus is on Rugby and T&F

Iona - LTAD program under dual International

SPLC - Finally, having a 'crack' like old days

Villa - New 'gung-ho' sportsmaster



With SLC and ASH - losing quality coaches plus demographic changes can they compete without changes? I believe that SLC will be far down in aggregate for example when in the 'old days' they would better many GPS schools.



Get your team to ride their bikes to school and they will win despite size differences. The 2010 Villa side were not massive but 'powerful' at the breakdown in particular.



Whilst not a teacher there, I watched the Iona vs Ash game and 'black and white' might have scored 100 if they played it up the middle.



In the olden days you wanted to do anything bar play 'Rugby' against Ash and kicking to their back three was a no-no.



Do I now say, that I hope I did not offend anybody?



Cheers

 

[David Connors]

Speaking to friends from SLC who have sons there and staff members I know, I agree with the change in culture comment. You only have to pick up a year book or speak to a proud old boy to catch a glimpse of what was once a proud rugby program that was brought about by a shared common passion for rugby by staff, students and parents alike. Recent years has seen some high profile coaches amongst the ranks such as Pat Richards (current Easts Premier Grade coach), Andrew Scotney (Western Force assistant coach and ex Qld Reds player), Karel Bos (Former Easts Premier Grade Coach and ex Australian 7s player), Damien Reidy (ex Wests Premier Grade coach, ex Qld Reds player) as well as 2 younger teachers who play premier grade and a number of passionate teachers all putting endless hours into the rugby program. Only some of them are still involved/on staff still. Looking at where these coaches have gone onto is a testament to the rugby program of years gone by. All these coaches are/were teachers on staff. Perhaps the recruitment of staff has taken a different vision. Once upon a time under a different head of school, rugby playing/coaching staff members were head hunted.

I know for a fact that Reidy is putting alot of time into improving the rugby at SLC

 

[Rugby1523]

This years 16 A's from SLC and ASH shared the premiership

 

[mates95]

From what I am aware here are some positions for aic 1
Have not seen the full list but this is what I have been told.

3. Carter ozane IONA
5. Lanchashire ASH(played 4)
6. Junior SPC
7.wilkin IONA
8. Smith IONA
9. Moses PETERS
11. Robers SPC
12. Devine ASH
13. Hola IONA
14. Narhyl PETERS
15. Henley PETERS

That is legit. Not aware of the few other positions though.

 

[ruggasXV]

AIC 1

1. Carter Ozzane (IONA)
2. Shaun Laurie (SPLC)
3. Lui Afele (SEC)
4. James Lancashire (ASH)
5. Ryan McCully (SEC)
6. Junior Fakaosilea (SPC)
7. Brad Wilkin (IONA)
8. Jordan Smith (IONA)
9. Moses Sorovi (SPLC)
10. Mitch Treleavan (ASH)
11. Liam Roberts (SPC)
12. Henry Devine (ASH)
13. Sione Hola (IONA)
14. Narhyl Bennet (SPLC)
15. Adrian Henley (SPLC)


AIC 2

1. Sean Langkilde (SPC)
2. Sam McSweeney (ASH)
3. Laughlin Tessmann (IONA)
4. Sharley Yak (IONA)
5. Matthew Burke (IONA)
6. Loughlin Batch (VILL)
7. Sam Clarke (ASH)
8. Ikaika Fa'aoso (SPLC)
9. Laughlin Lewis (IONA)
10. Kendric Rothschield Felu (VILL)
11. Sam Rose (IONA)
12. Todd Dawson (IONA)
13. Linton Enoch (SPLC)
14. Jacob Manning (ASH)
15. Clifton Setu (SEC)
16. Ryan Haling (ASH)
17. Isaac Zarra (VILL)
18. Chris Patterson (VILL)
19. Daniel Byrne (ASH)
20. Nick Furness (ASH)
21. Rhys Beal (IONA)
22. Dan Turner (SEC)
23. Will McBride (VILL)
24. Regan Glynn (SPC)
25. Will Stokes (VILL)

Curtis Evans (IONA), Ollie Hughes (SPLC), Jeremy Gordon (SPC) and Lachlan Gray (SLC) made Chairman's XV at #2, #5, #8 and #10 respectively.

 

[eldiablo]

Well done to all those boys on their deserved selection. Hopefully they'll push the GPS boys; and we'll see a stronger contingent of AIC boys amongst the QLD teams compared to previous years.

 

[AICrugbyfans]

AIC 1

1. Carter Ozzane (IONA)
2. Shaun Laurie (SPLC)
3. Lui Afele (SEC)
4. James Lancashire (ASH)
5. Ryan McCully (SEC)
6. Junior Fakaosilea (SPC)
7. Brad Wilkin (IONA)
8. Jordan Smith (IONA)
9. Moses Sorovi (SPLC)
10. Mitch Treleavan (ASH)
11. Liam Roberts (SPC)
12. Henry Devine (ASH)
13. Sione Hola (IONA)
14. Narhyl Bennet (SPLC)
15. Adrian Henley (SPLC)


AIC 2

1. Sean Langkilde (SPC)
2. Sam McSweeney (ASH)
3. Laughlin Tessmann (IONA)
4. Sharley Yak (IONA)
5. Matthew Burke (IONA)
6. Loughlin Batch (VILL)
7. Sam Clarke (ASH)
8. Ikaika Fa'aoso (SPLC)
9. Laughlin Lewis (IONA)
10. Kendric Rothschield Felu (VILL)
11. Sam Rose (IONA)
12. Todd Dawson (IONA)
13. Linton Enoch (SPLC)
14. Jacob Manning (ASH)
15. Clifton Setu (SEC)
16. Ryan Haling (ASH)
17. Isaac Zarra (VILL)
18. Chris Patterson (VILL)
19. Daniel Byrne (ASH)
20. Nick Furness (ASH)
21. Rhys Beal (IONA)
22. Dan Turner (SEC)
23. Will McBride (VILL)
24. Regan Glynn (SPC)
25. Will Stokes (VILL)

Curtis Evans (IONA), Ollie Hughes (SPLC), Jeremy Gordon (SPC) and Lachlan Gray (SLC) made Chairman's XV at #2, #5, #8 and #10 respectively.

Where did you see this? Can you post the link?

 

[Eric Grothe Sr]

Yes well done indeed to all boys.
With fears expresed above (from myself included) about the decline in rugby from ASH and SLC, the teams also show what a strong competition the AIC now is.
In 2005 at an AIC school where I once taught, the running joke was how the ASH chess coordinator got the sack because it was the only AIC sanctioned activity that the blue and gold lost! However, as a former teacher, I believe the classroom comes first. If the two 'big' schools are becoming academic, well, Blessed Edmund Rice and St Marcellin would be most happy providing they are still playing sport.
Are we able to find out the coaches? Having said this, there is not a 1st XV coach in AIC whom is not up to the job in my opinion.
PS The most under-rated player I have seen in this year's comp = Yak from Iona - he was effectively everywhere against Ashgrove.

 

[ruggasXV]

Where did you see this? Can you post the link?

Got them from the ASH Head of Sport. I've tried online but can't seem to find them anywhere.