PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
You'd be surprise. Mallet and Naas still have this WP vs NTvl thing going.
Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013
- Thread starter PaarlBok
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lewisr
Bill McLean (32)
Once again, once again, once again, once again, once again!!! It doesn't matter how close his bloody form is to 2011, he's not going to look good behind a shit pack. Suffered that with the reds this year as well. Look at the crusaders game. It's the same thing with To'omua, he's played so well all year, he's on form, he's a real talent, but behind the crap forwards in the first two tests, he was on par with Cooper. Forget the backs.... Please!
Bullrush
John Hipwell (52)
?!? Not sure how you connect the 2 but whatever works for you uso.....
Bullrush
John Hipwell (52)
Do you think the Reds or the Wallaby forwards have been good until this year?
RoffsChoice
Jim Lenehan (48)
You wouldn't play Speight at 13, why would you play O'Connor there? Both are good on the wing.
O'Connor is gone next year anyway, once Speight is eligible you play him on one wing, Folau on the other.
O'Connor is gone next year anyway, once Speight is eligible you play him on one wing, Folau on the other.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Funny how I can see three missed tackles, and you only one, hmm?
If it makes you feel any better I didn't watch Scott's video.
Primarily because he was utterly and beyond all doubt wrong about his stick figure interpretation of the scrum, and secondarily because he loves to pick and choose what he likes to make a case for his favourite players. I tend to go the other way, but as a great man once said: you could argue with popularity, but you'd be wrong.
I probably never will ingest any of his content again, because quite frankly I then spend 20 minutes typing out a logical reply to everything he says that is wrong, then just delete it because who gives a fuck? The typing is good therapy I suppose, like a letter you never send to a mob boss who killed your dog.
Kepu is now, at a glance, the best THP we have left. He proved this against the Lions, and more importantly he proved it week in, week out, in Super Rugby. You can't say that about ANY of the Reds front rowers, except perhaps Hanson. And he's injured anyway. Do you believe Alexander or Slipper are better at scrum time?
Douglas is in the same boat, with a stack of second row injuries now clouding selection.
Did I pick Timani anywhere?
No. In fact I think the last I spoke of him anywhere was to criticise how shit he was, and how I'd be glad the Tahs are rid of him. I've done a quick forum search and am pretty sure its in that vein.Gah! You're half the QLDer I thought you were. He WAS divisive, but I'm happy to say that with Robbie out of the way that is no longer an issue. He has his preferred coach, and therefore his preferred non-toxic environment, and the support of his team mates. Shit I think I even backed him to start against the ABs if that was Link's wish.
And that was swell, but the swelling's gone down. Because all I saw was the same old thing he's been producing at provincial and national level the last two years. The guy has not improved a jot since the Reds won a title, beyond his improvement in taking the ball into contact.
His defense is still woeful - if you had a Colts player who was that ineffective in contact you'd give up on him unless he was an attacking genius. Which Cooper WAS in Super Rugby, but is not now.
A large contributor to this issue was Link's belief that he could just run the Reds game plan - which was largely ineffective all year (6 Bonus Points mind) - and stick it into Test rugby against largely established coaching and players. Not always smart.
I agree with you 100% about our other backs making mistakes - all our players are making mistakes. That happens. But Cully's point stands: why fuck around with To'omua/Cooper just when the younger man with the better all-around game - proven on the field THIS SEASON - seemed to be settling into things in Wellington. Naturally we're talking about trying to polish a turd, but on the weekend it got a damn sight shittier rather than getting better.
But this is ploughing an old furrow.
The bigger problem right now is Genia.
Its all well and good to say our pack was beaten up, but when they're forced to operate behind the Ad line what the fuck do you expect?
I challenge anyone here to go out and play a game of rugby where your backs - particularly your halves - continually let you down. I've done it and its not much fun. Sometimes you have true ascendancy and can make up for their stupid mistakes, but often its just a lot of hard fucking work and a narrow loss or a complete thrashing.
And then the skinny little fops have the nerve to blame the forwards for it. In whispers. Over Bacardi Breezers. Out of earshot of the men...
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
I could almost agree with your argument except that Deans did not then use any real No 10s in his place. As I recall, he used on occasions Barnes, who was a better 12 or 15 imo, Beale, who is a better 15, and O'Connor, who was better at any other position. I know he had injury problems otherwise, but that was then a time he probably should have persisted with Cooper. Had he done so, we would now know if he was still up to test level or not. Instead, we are still having this debate.
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
So, having nearly had a stroke watching him bumble around the field on Saturday, I figured I would watch the video again sober and calm and follow his every movement to work out if he was as spectacularly useless as I remember.
This is the video i've used, and all these timings are from the match clock, not the video clock.
He only lasted 46minutes before Link hooked him (to have him dragged out the back and sent to a North Korean prison camp???), and his workrate was uh....well he makes the word rather oxymoronic, so it should only take a few minutes to get through the whole 46 minutes of play.
Kick off.
00:10 - Involved in the maul from kick off receipt.
00:35s - tries to get involved in a cleaning out of Folau's tackler. All he does is shuffle up to the ruck and push Bismarck (already looking at the next phase of play) backwards.
00:42s Hit's a ruck and actually uses his shoulder. Does nothing else other than walk around the field pointing his fingers in random directions (what is he calling? Is he the pillar? The post? ) for an entire minute until....
1:47s - Mowen contests a breakdown hard and a Bok dives off his feet to seal off the ball. Everybody else is clapping, showing energetic enthusiasm, talking, planning etc. Kepu stands there with his hands on his hips looking out of breath. Has anyone ever told him about body language in a game? IE keep your fucking hands off your hips unless you want the opposition to think you're rooted and want to give them a mental leg up. In the 70th minute I could maybe gloss over it, but he's not even two minutes into the game and he's showing exhausted body language having had one actual involvement in the game.
3:30 - Scrum. Holds his own, but looks pretty shaky.
5:45 - Boks drive a maul from the lineout. Kepu makes a good drive through the middle and the Boks maul breaks up.
6:30 after the kick off, the ball is kicked back to the Wallabies who counter through the midfield. Hooper spills it and the Boks counter again. Kepu has JOGGED around in circles this entire time. It is sometimes hard to read the play and be where you're required, but he's jogging around like he's at the final warm down after a sprint session. Now, we've just kicked off 15 seconds before this after having a nice rest while the TMO tries to work out if the Boks scored, and then Steyn's conversion. He should be feeling really energetic at thi point, as you do after an initial few minutes of 'high' intensity excercise and then a quick break. You feel MORE energetic, but Kepu is just ambling around the field like it's a warm DOWN.
6:42 - Folau gets tackled after trying to shake off defenders. Kepu is last man into this ruck, but if he had actually run back he'd have been in a position to get into the ruck faster and secure fast ruck ball.
Jogs to the next ruck (already won and not under threat of counter-rucking) and then watches Genia clear to the backs, while he walks around in midfield.
7:02 - Hooper takes a hit up. Kepu is closest, and Moore another few metres away. Gets himself a poor position from which he can do nothing except shuffle around while pushing (with his hands) the back of a Bok loosie (18), and then enter the ruck from the side without having actually done anything. Meanwhile, he's left two Boks standing between Genia and the ball who Moore pushes out of the way. Moore is standing at the ruck, head up looking for threats. Kepu is facing almost 90 degrees to the field with his head down and not searching out and possible threats to the ruck.
7:26 - arrives at a ruck, stand on the edge in a blocking position.
7:32 - arrives at the next ruck after Genia is taken out and the Boks knock it on. Instead of reacting and at least playing to the whistle, Kepu hunches over with his hands on his knee's in the classic "i'm buggered" position. While all other Wallabies are upright and protesting to Clancy about the ball being hacked away. So now Kepu gets a rest from his ambling around the field.
9:25 - lifts Simmons up for the kick off recipt.
10:35 - Holds his own in the scrum, nice and stable.
11:45 - Gets out muscled in the scrum and driven back, Boks get to screw the scrum the direction they need for a clean pass.
13:50 - bit of pushing and shoving. Kepu arrives after it's all sorted and takes offence at something. God knows what, he was 30 metres away when it all was happening.
15:04 - Again, whistler goes and Kepu's hands are straight onto his hips. No one else does.
16:10 - Lifts Mowen in the lineout.
16:14 - Kepu enters the ruck from the side, shuffles his way round to an offside position and then tries to pull a Bok off his feet by grabbing him and sitting down. What the fuck? Seriously? This guy is a professional rugby player and THIS is how he cleans out?
16:38 - Pushes with is hands at a ruck.
16:50 - In from the side at a ruck again, manages to pull a Bok off his feet.
17:10 - Having done bugger all, he's exhausted and jogs slowly back up field. Doesn't push hard to get back behind the line for a possible counter attack OR form part of the defensive line should the Boks get it.
18:34 - standing at the back of the lineout, he's yet again the only player with his hands on his hips. Fuck me.
19:00 - leans on a ruck.
19:08 - Runs straight behind Genia and ignores the ruck under threat. There is a 3 v 2 advantage to the Boks with another player charging in. Kepu jogs past it while Hooper, Beiber and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are overpowered and turned over. HIT THE RUCK AND SECURE BALL FFS!
20:00 - falls on his face in the scrum, re set and is struggling badly on the 2nd.
24:00 having given away a free kick for going early, Steyn boots it into the corner, Beiber fields it and returns fire. He sprints back upfield to prevent the quick throw in, aided my Moore, Simmons and Mowen. Kepu is walking on the 22. Why doesn't he chase as well? Or at least get into the line in case the throw in is made?
25:15 - He makes his first tackle of the game. Average tackle and loses the collision. He then flops around off his feet pretending to be caugh in the ruck and looking at the ref. Problem is, the only thing on top of him is a pair of feet. Finally get out of the way and is STILL JUST LYING THERE! GET UP AND BACK IN THE FUCKING LINE!!!!! The ball is in Pienaar's hands at the NEXT RUCK before Kepu is even on his feet!!
25:50 - makes a 2nd tackle, struggles back to his feet like an arthritic woman in the morning, and then walks to the blindside, where he adds another defender to face against one Bok. Not seen again until
26:41 - Where he faceplants into a ruck and then falls sideways onto his arse and lies there for a breather. 20 seconds later, he's still lying on the ground.
29:00 - He's just walking around in circles in the midfield. Makes no effort to get back in support for Folau who runs into 3 Boks and we are lucky not to lose it.
31:20 - Struggling badly in the scrum, Mowen has to scramble.
32:20 - Smashed in the scrum.
36:20 - Makes his first touch of the ball, a pick and drive that gains about 8cm.
39:00 -Smashed in the scrum again, ball spills out the side and only desparate defence from Cooper and McCalman saves the day. Que the wide angle shot and what do we see? Kepu is just slowly jogging back towards our line. A minute before half time, and he's fucking jogging back to our line, while everyone else is desparately trying to hold the Boks out. Where is his urgency or commitment? \
40:20 - Moore toes ahead a loose ball on the 10m line. By the time Kepu reaches the 22, Moore and Cummins have made the tackle/hit the ruck on the Bok tryline. Moore beats Kepu by 22m, and it's 20 seconds after halftime. IE everyone is fresh. What the fuck is Kepu doing? Where is his hunger and work ethic?
He eventually arrives but the ball is out and Simmons makes the tackle.
41:00 - Struggling in the scrum when we really need a good solid platform to launch the backs from.
45:15 - Maul is held up, we're in trouble. Desarately need someone to hit the ruck and drive it forward. Going forward we're likely to get the ball back either from the free kick or from the ball being exposed. Kepu is the only one not already involved, so he goes in and hits the ruck with his chest, standing upright. Where did he learn this shit? 4th grade players hit rucks with more aggression and technique, and we've got a professional tight forward making backs look tough?
46:05 - he then gets smashed AGAIN in the scrum, gives away a penalty. Everyone else is walking back, facing Steyn in case he taps and goes, yet Kepu is walking face to his try line, hands on his fucking hips again, and head down.
At this point, Link's clearly seen enough and hauls his sorry arse off the field. After a performance like that, if he ever makes the gold jersey again I really might give up, it's just disgraceful.
This is the video i've used, and all these timings are from the match clock, not the video clock.
He only lasted 46minutes before Link hooked him (to have him dragged out the back and sent to a North Korean prison camp???), and his workrate was uh....well he makes the word rather oxymoronic, so it should only take a few minutes to get through the whole 46 minutes of play.
Kick off.
00:10 - Involved in the maul from kick off receipt.
00:35s - tries to get involved in a cleaning out of Folau's tackler. All he does is shuffle up to the ruck and push Bismarck (already looking at the next phase of play) backwards.
00:42s Hit's a ruck and actually uses his shoulder. Does nothing else other than walk around the field pointing his fingers in random directions (what is he calling? Is he the pillar? The post? ) for an entire minute until....
1:47s - Mowen contests a breakdown hard and a Bok dives off his feet to seal off the ball. Everybody else is clapping, showing energetic enthusiasm, talking, planning etc. Kepu stands there with his hands on his hips looking out of breath. Has anyone ever told him about body language in a game? IE keep your fucking hands off your hips unless you want the opposition to think you're rooted and want to give them a mental leg up. In the 70th minute I could maybe gloss over it, but he's not even two minutes into the game and he's showing exhausted body language having had one actual involvement in the game.
3:30 - Scrum. Holds his own, but looks pretty shaky.
5:45 - Boks drive a maul from the lineout. Kepu makes a good drive through the middle and the Boks maul breaks up.
6:30 after the kick off, the ball is kicked back to the Wallabies who counter through the midfield. Hooper spills it and the Boks counter again. Kepu has JOGGED around in circles this entire time. It is sometimes hard to read the play and be where you're required, but he's jogging around like he's at the final warm down after a sprint session. Now, we've just kicked off 15 seconds before this after having a nice rest while the TMO tries to work out if the Boks scored, and then Steyn's conversion. He should be feeling really energetic at thi point, as you do after an initial few minutes of 'high' intensity excercise and then a quick break. You feel MORE energetic, but Kepu is just ambling around the field like it's a warm DOWN.
6:42 - Folau gets tackled after trying to shake off defenders. Kepu is last man into this ruck, but if he had actually run back he'd have been in a position to get into the ruck faster and secure fast ruck ball.
Jogs to the next ruck (already won and not under threat of counter-rucking) and then watches Genia clear to the backs, while he walks around in midfield.
7:02 - Hooper takes a hit up. Kepu is closest, and Moore another few metres away. Gets himself a poor position from which he can do nothing except shuffle around while pushing (with his hands) the back of a Bok loosie (18), and then enter the ruck from the side without having actually done anything. Meanwhile, he's left two Boks standing between Genia and the ball who Moore pushes out of the way. Moore is standing at the ruck, head up looking for threats. Kepu is facing almost 90 degrees to the field with his head down and not searching out and possible threats to the ruck.
7:26 - arrives at a ruck, stand on the edge in a blocking position.
7:32 - arrives at the next ruck after Genia is taken out and the Boks knock it on. Instead of reacting and at least playing to the whistle, Kepu hunches over with his hands on his knee's in the classic "i'm buggered" position. While all other Wallabies are upright and protesting to Clancy about the ball being hacked away. So now Kepu gets a rest from his ambling around the field.
9:25 - lifts Simmons up for the kick off recipt.
10:35 - Holds his own in the scrum, nice and stable.
11:45 - Gets out muscled in the scrum and driven back, Boks get to screw the scrum the direction they need for a clean pass.
13:50 - bit of pushing and shoving. Kepu arrives after it's all sorted and takes offence at something. God knows what, he was 30 metres away when it all was happening.
15:04 - Again, whistler goes and Kepu's hands are straight onto his hips. No one else does.
16:10 - Lifts Mowen in the lineout.
16:14 - Kepu enters the ruck from the side, shuffles his way round to an offside position and then tries to pull a Bok off his feet by grabbing him and sitting down. What the fuck? Seriously? This guy is a professional rugby player and THIS is how he cleans out?
16:38 - Pushes with is hands at a ruck.
16:50 - In from the side at a ruck again, manages to pull a Bok off his feet.
17:10 - Having done bugger all, he's exhausted and jogs slowly back up field. Doesn't push hard to get back behind the line for a possible counter attack OR form part of the defensive line should the Boks get it.
18:34 - standing at the back of the lineout, he's yet again the only player with his hands on his hips. Fuck me.
19:00 - leans on a ruck.
19:08 - Runs straight behind Genia and ignores the ruck under threat. There is a 3 v 2 advantage to the Boks with another player charging in. Kepu jogs past it while Hooper, Beiber and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are overpowered and turned over. HIT THE RUCK AND SECURE BALL FFS!
20:00 - falls on his face in the scrum, re set and is struggling badly on the 2nd.
24:00 having given away a free kick for going early, Steyn boots it into the corner, Beiber fields it and returns fire. He sprints back upfield to prevent the quick throw in, aided my Moore, Simmons and Mowen. Kepu is walking on the 22. Why doesn't he chase as well? Or at least get into the line in case the throw in is made?
25:15 - He makes his first tackle of the game. Average tackle and loses the collision. He then flops around off his feet pretending to be caugh in the ruck and looking at the ref. Problem is, the only thing on top of him is a pair of feet. Finally get out of the way and is STILL JUST LYING THERE! GET UP AND BACK IN THE FUCKING LINE!!!!! The ball is in Pienaar's hands at the NEXT RUCK before Kepu is even on his feet!!
25:50 - makes a 2nd tackle, struggles back to his feet like an arthritic woman in the morning, and then walks to the blindside, where he adds another defender to face against one Bok. Not seen again until
26:41 - Where he faceplants into a ruck and then falls sideways onto his arse and lies there for a breather. 20 seconds later, he's still lying on the ground.
29:00 - He's just walking around in circles in the midfield. Makes no effort to get back in support for Folau who runs into 3 Boks and we are lucky not to lose it.
31:20 - Struggling badly in the scrum, Mowen has to scramble.
32:20 - Smashed in the scrum.
36:20 - Makes his first touch of the ball, a pick and drive that gains about 8cm.
39:00 -Smashed in the scrum again, ball spills out the side and only desparate defence from Cooper and McCalman saves the day. Que the wide angle shot and what do we see? Kepu is just slowly jogging back towards our line. A minute before half time, and he's fucking jogging back to our line, while everyone else is desparately trying to hold the Boks out. Where is his urgency or commitment? \
40:20 - Moore toes ahead a loose ball on the 10m line. By the time Kepu reaches the 22, Moore and Cummins have made the tackle/hit the ruck on the Bok tryline. Moore beats Kepu by 22m, and it's 20 seconds after halftime. IE everyone is fresh. What the fuck is Kepu doing? Where is his hunger and work ethic?
He eventually arrives but the ball is out and Simmons makes the tackle.
41:00 - Struggling in the scrum when we really need a good solid platform to launch the backs from.
45:15 - Maul is held up, we're in trouble. Desarately need someone to hit the ruck and drive it forward. Going forward we're likely to get the ball back either from the free kick or from the ball being exposed. Kepu is the only one not already involved, so he goes in and hits the ruck with his chest, standing upright. Where did he learn this shit? 4th grade players hit rucks with more aggression and technique, and we've got a professional tight forward making backs look tough?
46:05 - he then gets smashed AGAIN in the scrum, gives away a penalty. Everyone else is walking back, facing Steyn in case he taps and goes, yet Kepu is walking face to his try line, hands on his fucking hips again, and head down.
At this point, Link's clearly seen enough and hauls his sorry arse off the field. After a performance like that, if he ever makes the gold jersey again I really might give up, it's just disgraceful.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Gee I wonder why they were behind the advantage line?...Unless you're referring to someone other than the pack this statement makes absolutely no sense at all. It is their job to go forward in the first place.
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
Couldn't be much worse!!!
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
Funny how I can see three missed tackles, and you only one, hmm?
If it makes you feel any better I didn't watch Scott's video.
Primarily because he was utterly and beyond all doubt wrong about his stick figure interpretation of the scrum, and secondarily because he loves to pick and choose what he likes to make a case for his favourite players. I tend to go the other way, but as a great man once said: you could argue with popularity, but you'd be wrong.
I probably never will ingest any of his content again, because quite frankly I then spend 20 minutes typing out a logical reply to everything he says that is wrong, then just delete it because who gives a fuck? The typing is good therapy I suppose, like a letter you never send to a mob boss who killed your dog.
Kepu is now, at a glance, the best THP we have left. He proved this against the Lions, and more importantly he proved it week in, week out, in Super Rugby. You can't say that about ANY of the Reds front rowers, except perhaps Hanson. And he's injured anyway. Do you believe Alexander or Slipper are better at scrum time?
Douglas is in the same boat, with a stack of second row injuries now clouding selection.
Did I pick Timani anywhere?
Gah! You're half the QLDer I thought you were. He WAS divisive, but I'm happy to say that with Robbie out of the way that is no longer an issue. He has his preferred coach, and therefore his preferred non-toxic environment, and the support of his team mates. Shit I think I even backed him to start against the ABs if that was Link's wish.
And that was swell, but the swelling's gone down. Because all I saw was the same old thing he's been producing at provincial and national level the last two years. The guy has not improved a jot since the Reds won a title, beyond his improvement in taking the ball into contact.
His defense is still woeful - if you had a Colts player who was that ineffective in contact you'd give up on him unless he was an attacking genius. Which Cooper WAS in Super Rugby, but is not now.
A large contributor to this issue was Link's belief that he could just run the Reds game plan - which was largely ineffective all year (6 Bonus Points mind) - and stick it into Test rugby against largely established coaching and players. Not always smart.
I agree with you 100% about our other backs making mistakes - all our players are making mistakes. That happens. But Cully's point stands: why fuck around with To'omua/Cooper just when the younger man with the better all-around game - proven on the field THIS SEASON - seemed to be settling into things in Wellington. Naturally we're talking about trying to polish a turd, but on the weekend it got a damn sight shittier rather than getting better.
But this is ploughing an old furrow.
The bigger problem right now is Genia.
Its all well and good to say our pack was beaten up, but when they're forced to operate behind the Ad line what the fuck do you expect?
I challenge anyone here to go out and play a game of rugby where your backs - particularly your halves - continually let you down. I've done it and its not much fun. Sometimes you have true ascendancy and can make up for their stupid mistakes, but often its just a lot of hard fucking work and a narrow loss or a complete thrashing.
And then the skinny little fops have the nerve to blame the forwards for it. In whispers. Over Bacardi Breezers. Out of earshot of the men.
Remove head from sphincter THEN type!
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
It's all irrelevent anyway, Christian lealiifano is the best flyhalf in Australia. It's not until he plays there that he really steps it up, because he has to.
The best backline Aus could put out were everyone healthy and fit would be
Genia
Lealiifano
Folau
One of McCabe/Fainga'a for their defensive starch and directness in attack.
Beiber
Speight
Mogg
White
Cooper
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
The best backline Aus could put out were everyone healthy and fit would be
Genia
Lealiifano
Folau
One of McCabe/Fainga'a for their defensive starch and directness in attack.
Beiber
Speight
Mogg
White
Cooper
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
crangs81
Larry Dwyer (12)
You must've had to clear the house of sharp objects, medications and dangerous chemicals (or dosed heavily on the final two) to sit down and watch him "compete". Don't know weather you need a visit to the pub or the looney bin after that
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