Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013

[No4918]

It's all irrelevent anyway, Christian lealiifano is the best flyhalf in Australia. It's not until he plays there that he really steps it up, because he has to.

This could well be the case. Prediction for backline that will win the RWC '15.

Genia
Lilo
Speight
Godwin
Folau
JOC (James O'Connor)
Beale

 

[Tordah]

you know, from the outside it's a bit like you guys are the Middle East and Robbie Deans was your Israel. As soon as he was gone the common enemy was gone also and now it's a free for all

 

[fatprop]

Can someone let me know the logic of requiring Mowen to pick up the ball at the back of the ruck and pass it to Genial?

In the olden days the 9 used to plant his heal, pick up the ball and get it away from the scrum

Why is it better for a static 8, lobbing a ball to a static 9 before it is going to the 10

Sent from a tiny evil keyboard

 

[Ash]

Probably. I'm currently of the mind that it doesn't matter who we bring in, because the cattle we have available are very unlikely to be better than the guys we have in the squad now, Benn Robinson being the one potential exception (oh, and I would add Sam Carter and Neville ahead of Timani assuming Pyle is out injured, but I would be very depressed if Timani gets a free ride back into the side).

You can shuffle deck chairs all you want, but that starting pack we had on the weekend was very close to the best starting pack we had fit. The obvious issue is that plenty of players are out of form, look to be tired and/or unfit, and there's just no cohesion.

You could choose Cooper or To'omua at 10, either/or for me. But I think that unless our pack is right, the decision is meaningless. And unless someone can work some magic in the next few weeks, we might grab some lucky/close wins vs the Argies but at are not going to win anything else. Parachuting in forwards from outside the squad will, I suspect, just give us more of the same.

Hence my sad feeling.

 

[Ash]

Oh, and if it's true that Genia is dropped to the bench, thank fuck.

 

[BPC]

I think your question actually should be addressed to daz, BPC, because I was quoting him. [Edit: I have just read daz's comment 2 posts above and now realise that it might be best if you don't address this question to him. He knows even less about the issue than I do.]

Rather than straying into an area where I am profoundly unqualified let me quote what appears to be an authoritative source:

The inner unit tonic muscles
The inner unit refers to the functional synergy between the deep muscles of the core.
The inner unit is composed of the Transversus abdominis, the posterior fibres of the Obliquus internus abdominis, the diaphragm, the pelvic floor muscles, the Multifidus and lumbar portions of the Longissimus and Iliocostalis. These muscles have their origin or insertion at the vertebrae and generate little or no movement during activation. Contraction of these deep core muscles provides segmental stabilisation of the spine.
The outer unit phasic muscles
The outer unit consists of many muscles such as the Obliquus externus, Obliquus internus, Erector spinae, Latissimus dorsi, Gluteus muscles, the Quadratus lumborum, adductors and hamstrings. The outer unit muscles have an important stability function when the body is under load (lifting weights) or during high-speed movements.
The outer unit controls the range of motion, generates movement and provides gross stability. (Core training part 1: Inner and outer unit)

When I first started weight training more than half a century ago we knew nothing whatsoever about core stabilisation. That is still basically the case so I will decline your invitation to pontificate about how the inner core is exercised separately from the outer core.
.

Sorry Bruce, I was being a bit facetious as I suspect that it is impossible to exercise the inner and outer core separately. I suspect it is one of those myths like leg raises exercising the lower abdominal wall.

I don't know where you obtained the quote from but the inner core definition seems appropriate but the outer core as defined is practically the entire body.

Frankly, I am a fan of the empirical method in weight training.

 

[BPC]

A large contributor to this issue was Link's belief that he could just run the Reds game plan - which was largely ineffective all year (6 Bonus Points mind) - and stick it into Test rugby against largely established coaching and players. Not always smart.

This sums it up for me. Link talks about horses for courses in selection of players, but seems to have recycled the Reds gameplan which works at Superugby level but not at test level. I expected better from him.

Plus I can't forgive him, as he is a former test prop, for actually making our scrum (already with a reputation of weakness) go backwards.

 

[BPC]

So, having nearly had a stroke watching him bumble around the field on Saturday, I figured I would watch the video again sober and calm and follow his every movement to work out if he was as spectacularly useless as I remember.

I won't argue with you about Kepu's workrate as he did seem surprisingly out of condition. However, in the scrums, he had Simmons behind him who is not a tighthead lock and Simmons pushing in the scrum seemed suspect (I don't have the masochistic streak to go back and watch it again to confirm with a video).

 

[BPC]

Can someone let me know the logic of requiring Mowen to pick up the ball at the back of the ruck and pass it to Genial?

In the olden days the 9 used to plant his heal, pick up the ball and get it away from the scrum

Why is it better for a static 8, lobbing a ball to a static 9 before it is going to the 10

Sent from a tiny evil keyboard

It increases each player's involvement rate which is a key statistical indicator used to justify their continued selection.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Sorry Bruce, I was being a bit facetious as I suspect that it is impossible to exercise the inner and outer core separately. I suspect it is one of those myths like leg raises exercising the lower abdominal wall.

I don't know where you obtained the quote from but the inner core definition seems appropriate but the outer core as defined is practically the entire body.

Frankly, I am a fan of the empirical method in weight training.

Yes, BPC, there is a fair body of literature debunking the inner core/outer core distinction.

I provided the link to the source of the quote at the end of the quote.
.

 

[Rassie]

Bruce I think the mental aspect is more important than the physical aspect. Anyone can train to be powerful or strong. There are a lot of people out there who have got great physical attributes, but it is the mental aspect of, for example, being able to punch above your weight that counts.

 

[Pfitzy]

Remove head from sphincter THEN type!

You should be thanking me for sticking up for a Brumbies playmaking unit, but instead you're just shooting your ignorant shit around.

Maybe you should do your little video analysis on Ben Alexander - I'll get you started:

Scrum - smashed for shoulders below hips
Scrum - smashed for poor bind
Scrum - smashed for lazy setup

etc.

 

[Brumbieman]

You should be thanking me for sticking up for a Brumbies playmaking unit, but instead you're just shooting your ignorant shit around.

Maybe you should do your little video analysis on Ben Alexander - I'll get you started:

Scrum - smashed for shoulders below hips
Scrum - smashed for poor bind
Scrum - smashed for lazy setup

etc.

You just said a positive thing about Kepu, after the weekends game. Anything you say now is redundant.

 

[Brumbieman]

You must've had to clear the house of sharp objects, medications and dangerous chemicals (or dosed heavily on the final two) to sit down and watch him "compete". Don't know weather you need a visit to the pub or the looney bin after that

Squats. I've just found my new workout motivation.

 

[Brumbieman]

I won't argue with you about Kepu's workrate as he did seem surprisingly out of condition. However, in the scrums, he had Simmons behind him who is not a tighthead lock and Simmons pushing in the scrum seemed suspect (I don't have the masochistic streak to go back and watch it again to confirm with a video).

The scrum is what worries me the least. If we dominate the breakdown, the scrum is not a huge problem. However, after the weekends game, Alexander must start. He's no worse in the scrum, but at least he fucking DOES something around the field.

Seriously, watch the clip and just follow Kepu. There is not a SINGLE moment in the game where he gets past a slow jog, not a SINGLE moment that I could see.

 

[USARugger]

If I recall correctly Alexander's work in the loose at test level has been horrible since the Lions.

 

[Hawko]

I challenge anyone here to go out and play a game of rugby where your backs - particularly your halves - continually let you down. I've done it and its not much fun. Sometimes you have true ascendancy and can make up for their stupid mistakes, but often its just a lot of hard fucking work and a narrow loss or a complete thrashing.

And then the skinny little fops have the nerve to blame the forwards for it. In whispers. Over Bacardi Breezers. Out of earshot of the men.

This part of the post i really liked. Especially the bolded bit.

 

[The Incredible Plan]

Genia may have been telling Mowen to pick up. Wayne Smith made the following observation:

"The old scrum laws gave Australia a way out. They could steal or gamble on the hit and hide some of their weakness with the help of permissive refereeing. Taking the hit out has tested the power of the scrum for an elongated period. This has brutally exposed Australia and taken away a big attacking weapon. For Queensland a couple of years back Higginbotham could pick up with Will Genia 6-8 metres off his shoulder running flat and Digby Ioane cutting lines. It was almost impossible to defend against. Without a stable scrum, the brilliance of Genia is diminished. The Wallabies know that the Pumas will come at them in the scrum, but can they cope?"

 

[USARugger]

Pfitzy

Have you ever been wearing 9/10 when your pack is getting physically dominated? Because it is just as bad as the scenario you described at the end of your post.

There has been a lot of mention of our halves catching the ball standing still..

But what else are you expecting when they stop back pedaling just in time to receive the pass?

 

[fatprop]

Pfitzy

Have you ever been wearing 9/10 when your pack is getting physically dominated? Because it is just as bad as the scenario you described at the end of your post.

There has been a lot of mention of our halves catching the ball standing still..

But what else are you expecting when they stop back pedaling just in time to receive the pass?

In the olden days you adapted, the 9 dove passed to the 10 to give him more time or the 9 planted his heel and passed from the deck.

This static passing from 8 to 9 to 10 is bullocks, you assume the scrum will be under pressure and plan accordingly, just like the Japanese do.

But while you plan for shit ball, you actually get the pigs working as a unit at scrum time to gain an extra second of stability