Rugby League players who could have/could make the switch

[oztimmay]

I'm still amazed at the fact they are going to make a prop (albeit a loig one) into a centre. I told my coach for years that props do their best work out in the centres.

 

[hawktrain]

Someone like Billy Twelvetrees would have to be filthy about this. The RFU has so little faith in blokes like he and Tomkins in the centres that they're bringing in a league prop to play there.

Can't see this being a success and quite honestly I hope it fails miserably.

 

[JSRF10]

But he doesn't have to master any of that. Point him at the opposition, run him off set piece, and see what happens with a big crashballer at 12. Not in decades has any Pommy 12 ever threatened to be the second five-eighths that the ABs use.

If all he does is run in straight lines then he is predictable and easy to defend against, not to mention he'll be carrying like a league player so he'll be ripe for a choke tackle or a turnover on the ground. There is a hell of a lot more to being big and running straight at people as an international 12, just ask Graeme Morrison.

Someone like Billy Twelvetrees would have to be filthy about this. The RFU has so little faith in blokes like he and Tomkins in the centres that they're bringing in a league prop to play there.

Can't see this being a success and quite honestly I hope it fails miserably.

Was Tomkins not a loig lock a couple of years ago? England love league converts and they have a history, Jason Robinson aside, of blowing up in their faces in a spectacular and hilarious fashion. Burgess would be no different IMO.

 

[deL]

DeL and Pfitzy, it sounds so simple playing 12. Why didn't/don't we just play Higgers, Rocky, Palu or any other fluffybunny we've had in the back row there. Athletically a few of these guys have offered the same, and if the physical size advantage was all that mattered they would have dominated.

The reason they never played there is because it's not. The backline can be a lonely place in defence and with more space a player can easily be shown up.

I think what holds those guys back is foot speed and agility. Being a fan of both codes and having seen a lot of all of those mentioned players I'd have to guess that Burgess is quite a bit quicker than that lot. Also I imagine their thinking is that being from league he is probably a little more comfortable with a little space around him in defence and trying to catch quicker guys. We will of course see how it works out but I don't think enough credit is given to the ability of converts to pick up the game. It really has to do with personality and those that have failed have been held back by ego or poor work ethic or were never that good to begin with. He is obviously an exceptional athelete - once in a long, long time - and having him on board in the game is going to be positive. The questions can be asked if he ends up being selected for reasons other than development, or if he is shown to not be the goods but is persisted with. For now he remains a marketable, talented league player who wants to play rugby.

I think the bitterness about the notion he will displace other guys who deserve their "fair" go is odd. Surely a lot of the time you focus on potential over experience and even though a player might be half-baked you're going to give them the experience that will make them a better player in the long run. I'd agree with them that Sam Burgess has a ton of potential and if that means he gets the nod ahead of a few other hard workers so be it, doubly so if it means your player with more potential is ready in time for a world cup.

Having said all this, I don't think it's a long enough time - if he were going over this year I'd be very optimistic but that is a very short timeframe for any position let alone one that isn't the wing especially for a world cup.

 

[Train Without a Station]

There's no way he'd be any more than negligibly quicker than Higginbotham or Elsom pre-Leinster. Also league does not have any more space. That's just a fallacy pushed due to 2 less players on the field. It doesn't consider the fact that in rugby players are in rucks, the halfback sweeps, the 8 drops back, etc. that actually open up space. League is full of gang tackles. See how the bloke goes when he has to make one on one tackles for most of the game, and has a couple of metres space to cover between him and Owen Farrell and Tomkins, as opposed to about 1 metre with a league front rower on one side and then a league centre on the other side.

 

[boyo]

The Daily Mail in England (apparently a reputable source on rugby matters) are reporting that Burgess is a done deal.

Said with tongue firmly in cheek?

P.S. The Daily Heil is sold in a number of nations, not just England e.g. Wales Scotland, etc.

 

[TOCC]

You know what really worries me about all this, is the potential changes the NRL will do to the Salary Cap to prevent losing star players in the future and potentially poaching some of Rugby Unions as well..I predict big changes will come to the NRL salary cap in the next 18months

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

Big loss for the Bunnies if it is confirmed (still framed as ":reports" for now).

He would be a gun 8 or 6, but can't seem him adapting to 12 in time.

 

[The Rock]

Whats the matter with kick, kick, kick, they are pinching the Talented League Boys, haven't they got any decent union players !! Lol feel sorry for the die hard rugby boys being overlooked.

 

[I like to watch]

I would have thought the opposite to be true.
6 & 8 make many more decisions than 12 in a game.
Defending in the 12 channel won't be be beyond him.

 

[The Rock]

I would have thought the opposite to be true.
6 & 8 make many more decisions than 12 in a game.
Defending in the 12 channel won't be be beyond him.

He is a talent and has the speed and toughness to match, Inside Centre, would be perfect for him. The whole Burgess Clan are very talented and I am sure Souths will be chaining his brothers to the Souths Burrow, so they go no where.

 

[Hawko]

There's no way he'd be any more than negligibly quicker than Higginbotham or Elsom pre-Leinster. Also league does not have any more space. That's just a fallacy pushed due to 2 less players on the field. It doesn't consider the fact that in rugby players are in rucks, the halfback sweeps, the 8 drops back, etc. that actually open up space. League is full of gang tackles. See how the bloke goes when he has to make one on one tackles for most of the game, and has a couple of metres space to cover between him and Owen Farrell and Tomkins, as opposed to about 1 metre with a league front rower on one side and then a league centre on the other side.

I don't think he has to be quick. In the NH, both France and England have had players who were big bulldozers and not much else. Bastareaud's play last week showed how limited this strategy is and how much better a fast elusive centre can be.

England is playing a high-power attritional game everywhere. They are not interested in anything but "bullying" opponents into submission. Burgess is straight out of that playbook and that's why its credible that England want him for the World Cup and if the game is played in a rainy bog he's going to be very useful.

But you'd have to say that none of the three SH giants would contemplate doing this. Nonu is the closest option but he has a whole range of extra skills and its those extras that get him selected. In Australia we would not contemplate it and SA want their backs to be much more mobile for kick-chase. Its because the type of gameplan England have adopted since time began that they're looking at him. I expect they will continue to have the same sort of results - good for a WC semi final spot maybe but nothing more.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think Burgess will be a sensational addition to the England RWC 2015 team, and it should be encouraged in the strongest possible way.

#12 for the Soap Dodgers is the absolute spot on position for him.

Can't see why so many Gaggerlanders seem to think he will not make an impact there.

 

[RugbyFuture]

sidenote, his mum works at scots, surprised they haven't contracted him yet...

 

[tranquility]

Sammy is a rare footballer and athlete. It would not surprise me at all if he was a roaring success. However I would much prefer to see him play 6, rather than 12.

 

[wamberal]

You know what really worries me about all this, is the potential changes the NRL will do to the Salary Cap to prevent losing star players in the future and potentially poaching some of Rugby Unions as well..I predict big changes will come to the NRL salary cap in the next 18months

Two questions there. Firstly, there really is not a lot they can do to prevent losing existing players. Okay, they might be able to top up the best 30 or so players (many of whom would not make the transition, but any measure would have to include all their best players), but not the next 30 or 50. Yes, they apparently have a lot more money to spend, but, don't worry too much, a fair bit of that is in contras, and they have always managed to waste a lot, or spend it unwisely. Plus they really have to start spending more on international development, if they want to have a genuinely attractive sport in the long-term. And they know it.

Secondly, the notion that they can change their salary cap rules to make it easier to poach players from us. Well, maybe they can. But they then run the risk of alienating a lot of their players (and a lot of rusted on fans as well), plus they can really only offer money. We know that our best players are quite happy to give up greater salaries in return for wearing the gold jersey. That won't change. The salary cap is there for a reason, to stop the silly buggers spending too much. If the NRL decided to offer existing rugby players a top-up, which would have to be huge to attract any of our established stars, you can imagine the uproar in the ranks.

 

[TOCC]

Two questions there. Firstly, there really is not a lot they can do to prevent losing existing players. Okay, they might be able to top up the best 30 or so players (many of whom would not make the transition, but any measure would have to include all their best players), but not the next 30 or 50. Yes, they apparently have a lot more money to spend, but, don't worry too much, a fair bit of that is in contras, and they have always managed to waste a lot, or spend it unwisely. Plus they really have to start spending more on international development, if they want to have a genuinely attractive sport in the long-term. And they know it.

I'm expecting their will be some big changes in the marquee player allowance, I've heard one proposal is to have the up to $1million excluded from the salary cap for a marquee player, also some changed to long service players having a larger proportion of their income excluded from the cap.

Secondly, the notion that they can change their salary cap rules to make it easier to poach players from us. Well, maybe they can. But they then run the risk of alienating a lot of their players (and a lot of rusted on fans as well), plus they can really only offer money. We know that our best players are quite happy to give up greater salaries in return for wearing the gold jersey. That won't change. The salary cap is there for a reason, to stop the silly buggers spending too much. If the NRL decided to offer existing rugby players a top-up, which would have to be huge to attract any of our established stars, you can imagine the uproar in the ranks.

Sorry i worded it badly, i wasn't proposing they will change their salary cap to make it easier to poach rugby union players, I just think that rugby union players(may not be established wallabies) may be tempted as a by-product of changes which makes more money available.

Grants to the NRL clubs have increased from around 3.5million in 2012 to $7million this year, furthermore the Salary Cap has increased from $4.4million in 2012 to $7.9million in 2017. With an increase in the total cap and also a potential to have more money made available via marquee player allowances etc it will mean a dramatic increase in the average wage of NRL players over the next 4 seasons..

 

[Tahspark]

Does anyone apart from Rebecca Wilson (as she espoused on Sky's Sports Night last night), give any credence to the notion that Burgess' motivation to change codes stems from critical comments made by his Souths team mate Inglis and fining by the club for doing unsanctioned promotional work?

Seems to me that there are more than enough positive reasons for his apparent intended move (rather than Burgess' disgruntlement as Wilson described it). Challenging himself in rugby and participating in a more authentic world cup are more likely to be much stronger motivators than a dummy spit with his current league team.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Considering his team has singed his 3 brothers out of the UK, despite them not being of his calibre, the bloke would have to be a true fuckwit if he then held a grudge over a few minor issues at Soufs.

 

[TOCC]

Does anyone apart from Rebecca Wilson (as she espoused on Sky's Sports Night last night), give any credence to the notion that Burgess' motivation to change codes stems from critical comments made by his Souths team mate Inglis and fining by the club for doing unsanctioned promotional work?

Seems to me that there are more than enough positive reasons for his apparent intended move (rather than Burgess' disgruntlement as Wilson described it). Challenging himself in rugby and participating in a more authentic world cup are more likely to be much stronger motivators than a dummy spit with his current league team.

Yeah I think that's rubbish, we've worked with the team the past 2 years and they have a good culture at that club, the media is now painting Sam as a bit of a narcissist, but I can't say I really ever saw that side, ultra competitive yes but not one who couldn't handle criticism..

It's funny, I actually brought up rugby union with him and he said back in the UK it's essentially two different classes, rugby league players run amok a bit more, a bit more of a boys club whilst rugby union players are held to higher accountability.