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State and Territory politics

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boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Hopefully recent events will have put a sizeable dent in all the "holier than thou" crap.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
They are Politicians @Boyo. Can't see it happening.

Tigers will become spotted before Pollys start telling the truth, and give up the race to occupy the moral high ground.

If there is a microphone, twitter account, email account, or TV Camera about they will preach, and it will be pious spin and gobbledegook.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I don't think the argument that 'they are both as bad as eachother' holds any water when it comes to NSW.

Obeid, McDonald and Tripodi rorted the state for millions of dollars, lining their own pockets and those of their mates. Not to mention Tony Kelly and the Currawong issue.

The only (NSW) Liberal that has been tarnished has been BOF, who has fallen on his sword after a simple memory lapse. He wasn't found corrupt, nor was there any suggestion he was. Aly seems to think Di Girolamo was a 'compromised' person, but at the time there was no suspicion about AWH and the dubious nature of both AWH and Di Girolamo have only come to light this year. How was he to know?

Granted the Libs haven't had 16 years for the rot to set in, but I don't think Aly's argument is 100% there.
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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I don't think the argument that 'they are both as bad as eachother' holds any water when it comes to NSW.

Obeid, McDonald and Tripodi rorted the state for millions of dollars, lining their own pockets and those of their mates. Not to mention Tony Kelly and the Currawong issue. (1)

The only (NSW) Liberal that has been tarnished has been BOF, who has fallen on his sword after a simple memory lapse. He wasn't found corrupt, nor was there any suggestion he was. Aly seems to think Di Girolamo was a 'compromised' person, but at the time there was no suspicion about AWH and the dubious nature of both AWH and Di Girolamo have only come to light this year. How was he to know? (2)

Granted the Libs haven't had 16 years for the rot to set in, but I don't think Aly's argument is 100% there.
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(1) AWH was paid how much for doing what exactly? You don't seriously expect the public to swallow the "facts" that lobbysists and such forth perverting the democratic process is honest work? The fact that Sinodinous and other in the Liberals had very close relationships with those in charge of AWH and yet didn't detect anything remotely suspicious speaks to their competence if they truly didn't know anything was amiss, which I simply do not accept.

(2) In a very similar forum at the Wood Royal Commission and the Police Integrity Commission Officers whose memories fail in a similar manner to BOF's do not get to keep their job. There does not need to be findings of corrupt for them to be dismissed. Why should BOF even remain in Parliament, he has been compromised.
Again if any reasonable person or any true company director was told the facts of the AWH business would they thing it a legitimate business?
None of the evidence exposed before the ICAC would suggest that any reasonable person would. The lobbying and relationships between those involved may not be able to be "proved" beyond reasonable doubt but it is not defensible, and certainly indicates again the competence of those involved to run companies and be members of parliament. If he couldn't see it he could only have been wilfully blind which Commission Wood commented upon very adversely with regard to said Police Officers and inferences could be drawn from such wilfull ignorance.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Very poorly briefed by his Chief of Staff or advisor or Privy Chamberman or whomsoever was supposed to advise him on ethical conduct, and how to "behave" while in office.

There should be further sackings of staff in O'Farrell Camp. They have let their boss (and the people of NSW) down by not advising, and monitoring his actions.

Indeed he has been compromised as a public official. Should he resign his seat and force a by election.
That would cost a pretty penny more than a bottle of 1959 Penfolds Influence, but isn't there some important democratic credibility issues at stake. He lied under oath. No "I might have received such a gift and not declared it but I can't recall that".

He flat out denied ALL knowledge of any Grange Influence.

The problem is what is the alternative? One bunch of Liberal liars vs a corrupt to the core Labour party vs Green Ideologues who exist in a policy vacuum vs various nutter single issue parasites.

If we were to shoot the lot of them, who would replace them?
There are not too many shining lights in charge of most Listed Australian Companies. The Trade Union Movement is likewise. Our Defence Force can't even read a map. The Salvation Army (my favorite charity) is tainted. The Judiciary - the legal fraternity has issues like overcharging and misrepresenting deceased persons to gain advantage at the MCC. Have they ever had any credibility?

Put the Barbers and Hair Dressers in charge.
 

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
bairdgif1.gif
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
@Hugh Jarse as a member of the Guild of Barbers (grandfather clause invoked) no thanks.

Invoking the grandfather clause recognising that Barbers and sawbones [Kirwins (Sir Johns)] were once connected, there is no candy striped pole outside your rooms to signify your membership of the guild.

One of only three Australians to raise the Rugby World cup aloft as a winning Captain was loosely associated with your profession. He was a Doctor - Dr David T. Kirk.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Except he never worked as a medico. Went on his Rhodes Scholarship, decided lab work would be boring, did business instead. From the horses mouth.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Very poorly briefed by his Chief of Staff or advisor or Privy Chamberman or whomsoever was supposed to advise him on ethical conduct, and how to "behave" while in office.

There should be further sackings of staff in O'Farrell Camp. They have let their boss (and the people of NSW) down by not advising, and monitoring his actions.

Well firstly all his staff are gone. Fired. Kaput. Minister goes, staff go. That's how it works.

But more to the point, I'd suggest his staff were more interested in running the state, rather than digging through BOF's past and working out who he had received flowers from at what time.

Ultimately it was BOF who fucked up under oath, on a question that was personal in nature and had nothing to do with his professional conduct or his staff.

Indeed he has been compromised as a public official. Should he resign his seat and force a by election.
That would cost a pretty penny more than a bottle of 1959 Penfolds Influence, but isn't there some important democratic credibility issues at stake. He lied under oath. No "I might have received such a gift and not declared it but I can't recall that".

He flat out denied ALL knowledge of any Grange Influence.

I would be reluctant to turf out someone with such a long and consistent record of public service just because of one lie under oath, which had nothing to do with corruption and could very reasonably be put down to a memory slip.

The problem is what is the alternative? One bunch of Liberal liars vs a corrupt to the core Labour party vs Green Ideologues who exist in a policy vacuum vs various nutter single issue parasites.

Liberal 'liars'? For fuck sake, talk about an exaggeration.

I genuinely believe that most politicians do a good job in a tough environment. They work bloody hard, and have the right motives at heart.

This instance just proves how cut-throat and fragile it all can be.

I think BOF made the right call, but to brand him some sort of corrupt liar is a bit harsh considering his record.
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Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I would be reluctant to turf out someone with such a long and consistent record of public service just because of one lie under oath, which had nothing to do with corruption and could very reasonably be put down to a memory slip.
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Not sure its a "lie" - I certainly don't think it was a deliberate falsehood but it was not the truth.
The reason I don't think it was deliberate is because to be deliberate he would have had to think about what he was going to say. The minute he engaged in that process he would have realised there was likely to be a paper trail - not necessarily the handwritten thank you but the delivery docket from the courier for which someone would have to sign.
Otherwise I strongly agree with you.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Not sure its a "lie" - I certainly don't think it was a deliberate falsehood but it was not the truth.

Oh I agree it wasn't deliberate, but in the strictest sense of the term it was a lie under oath. He said he definitely didn't receive it, when in fact he did.

Not sure why he didn't say 'I could have received it but I can't recall doing so', would have sounded a bit shifty but would also have saved his arse.
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Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Oh I agree it wasn't deliberate, but in the strictest sense of the term it was a lie under oath. He said he definitely didn't receive it, when in fact he did.

Not sure why he didn't say 'I could have received it but I can't recall doing so', would have sounded a bit shifty but would also have saved his arse.
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The theory I heard is that he saw Sinodinis crucified for saying he could not recall and decided he was not falling for that!
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I wouldn't know a shiraz from a cask goon. Hey Lindo, was the wine worth the three grand?
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Yes and no. Grange has a value in Australia (and for collectors elsewhere) well above its vinous qualities. Some sorry people with far too much money in their pockets aspire to one-up their peers and collect things like Grange as trophies. Sadly, they have no intention of ever drinking a wine like the 59 Grange and it will eventually go off, if it hasn't already.

The $3,000 (or was it $2,950?) figure came from the sale docket when it was purchased at a Vintage Cellars outlet. That seems a bit steep when the last sale on the secondary market I can find is $2,024 from Langtons in 2013. Spose Coles have to make their margin, poor bastards.

BTW, I have NEVER met a winemaker who's happy for his/her wine to be "collected" and not drunk. Their sole purpose in life is to make decent wine for us to enjoy while keeping body and soul together.

BBTW, had a 2001 Mt Billy Antiquity (a somewhat iconic Barossa Shiraz, about $150 rrp) last night with a mate from Maleny, went down a treat alongside some thick-cut rump steak. Bet it tasted a lot better than big Bazza's 59 Grange!
 
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